I need help and to talk to someone.

This is going to be long, but please bear with me. I really need other reptile keepers to talk to about this.

I have been keeping animals (mostly reptiles) since I was a child. I took some years off during my later high school and college years but afterwards started again with an iguana 11 years ago. Like many other reptile keepers, my "collection" for want of a better term, has grown. In the past few years, I also started breeding (skink, snakes, geckos) and must say I have been rather successful, even creating world firsts as far as morphs go. I guess I should be happy about this, but the number of animals has increased exponentially.

I do take good care of my animals, but the amount of work, food bills, vet bills and time invested has increased very much and if you talked to me some months ago, I would never admit this, but it just no longer feels fun anymore. It feels like a lot of stress and I have neglected all other aspects of my life outside work and my animals. For example, just a few years ago, I was a competitive athlete. I now no longer even exercise. I have never been very social, but I honestly can't even remember the last time I have been to a social meeting with anyone except immediate family on birthdays etc. I am getting rid of human furniture to make room for more cages and racks. I also have boxes and boxes of equipment from past years that I am saving in case I need it for future animals, that I dont want to throw out (maybe I should?) but didn't bother listing to sell them because what am I going to get for a bunch of old tubs or second hand rock dishes? Make a trip out to collect $10? This isn't working.

Today, after months of vet treatment (since april), my 3 Mali uromastyx were finally given a clean bill of health from the vet. I came home feeling peaceful, only to see that one of my skinks seem lethargic and I probably need to go to the vet yet again. That felt like a "last straw" to me.

I still do love animals, and even the other day my mother commented how excited I was just seeing a house gecko at her house. I am not thinking of stopping altogether, but I think I really need to cut back. I am almost reluctant to say this because it sounds like my dad when I was a kid when I just had a few turtles, but it has grown to that point that he may actually be right.

But I don't know what to do. I am so attached to them I don't know if I can decide which ones to sell/rehome. There is plenty of demand but I just can not decide what to keep and what to sell. I look at my frogs and they are all different colors and if I sell all but one or two, which ones do I keep? I have skinks that I can sell some, but which one? They are all equally lovable.

Also, it would seem that to significantly reduce the workload/cost, I should really be selling all of a certain class of animal. Like, sell all insectivores if I don't want to keep live prey, or all frogs for example. For example, I have an air conditioned room dedicated to caudates and things needing cool temperatures in the summer. A warm room for snakes etc. If I sell 90% of all the ones in the cool room, I would STILL need to pay the bills for the air conditioning. If I sell half of all my cricket eaters, I would STILL need to make that trip to buy crickets etc.

Has anyone else gone through this? I know something must be done, but not sure how to get started, and indeed don't want to! Should I just sell one or two to "get the ball rolling"?

Please help.

To add, if I wanted more room in my house for other things, and wanted to reduce the number of cages, I would need to sell all animals from that stack of cages. If I sold one from this stack of cages and one from that rack etc, I would not reclaim any room at all! It would be the same with a few empty slots! It is hard enough to decide which ones I can let go emotionally alone. My head wants to explode.

Should I just start anywhere and get the ball rolling?

I am also scared that I will regret this. But this just isn' t working.

I also feel embarrassed.

It sounds like you have decisions that only you are capable of making. You know your financial and space situation. Unfortunately, one can get themselves into a problem and find they are in too deep as you have.

You will need to decide. I dnt know that any of us can give you advice on this..other than, now that you know there is a problem..fix it. You will have to let go of some.

Best wishes!

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It sounds you're getting overwhelmed and you've recognized that for your own sanity you need to downsize. There's nothing wrong with that! Unfortunately this means making some tough decisions. You also have to decide which of the three goals you've listed - decreasing your workload so you can spend more time enjoying your animals or other pursuits, reducing your expenditures, or reclaiming space in your home - are the most important.

I can't help you pick and choose which animals to keep and which to rehome. I will suggest that to make it easier on yourself you have the new owner sign a first right of refusal contract with you, where if the new owner can't keep the animal any more it must be offered back to you first, at the price that was paid for it, or the new owner must pay you $X. That way you can at least filter out flippers and you'll know the critter landed in a good long-term home.

I don't think anyone here will sign anything. The culture is very different here than in the West.

I don't really expect anyone to help me decide which ones to keep or not keep. I am just sure that being as addictive as this hobby is, I am sure that I am not the only one to have found myself in this situation. I just want to see if anyone who has been through this maybe able to tell me how they overcame the obstacles and decisions I am facing? How did one even start? Just start anywhere?

Regarding signing the thing, I think I probably want to find a good owner and say goodbye once with finality. Don't want the "maybe they will come back to me" thought.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bcr229

You also have to decide which of the three goals you've listed - decreasing your workload so you can spend more time enjoying your animals or other pursuits, reducing your expenditures, or reclaiming space in your home - are the most important.

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I think this is great advice as to how/where to start. If you prioritize what it is you want to change, that'll give you a good starting point when it comes to choosing who and what to eliminate.

Alternatively, you could always prioritize what's most important to you to keep in your collection. What animals are you most interested in working with? Which ones are easiest on you to take care of? Which ones are most rewarding to handle, or make you feel happiest to see flourish?

I suspect your best bet is going to be to sit with this for a little while and sort of figure out what's most important to you in both directions-- in reclaiming the balance of your life and in continuing to get enjoyment out of what you do keep from your collection.

I don't envy you having to make this decision at all, by the way. I hope it goes as easily as it possibly can for you.

First of all, don't be embarrassed. If you let the hobby affect you too deeply mentally, physically, or financially you'll find yourself unable to care for any animals at all; you are doing the right thing.
I think your strategy of rehoming entire rooms is a smart one. Whether you move all your cold weather animals or just a few it's still going to hurt, so why endure it without reaping th maximum benefit?
also, once you make the decision to move forward, remember why you are doing it, don't let yourself get caught up trying to make money. It sounds like you have a very valuable collection, but if you're really doing this purely to allieviate yourself to of the burden, price them to sell. Fixating on the money is an easy way to avoid following brought with your plan.
Good luck

As a chronic hobbyist, if you feel like you need to cut back, then you probably should. Sounds like you've got a good plan to make your collection more manageable, which in turn should make you enjoy what you have more. There is always a tipping point with most hobbies (especially those involving live creatures) where it can become more work than fun. You sound like you've reached it.

I completely understand where you are coming from! Several years ago I was breeding tarantulas and beardies as well as feeders for everyone! Plus I had various other exotics that were pets. It got to be more of a chore than fun and I had to downsize and eventually take a break from the hobby all together. Now I'm picking it back up with the ball pythons

It may seem silly - but have you tried making a list of the things you love vs the things you hate about the hobby? Then cross referencing each species you keep. 1 point for them fulfilling a "love" item and minus one point for a "hate" item (minus 2 points for a hate item might be better) and then seeing which ones score the best?

For me seeing things written down help me be more objective and less sentimental.

Nothing wrong with a change of focus. The best cared for collections ARE focused. With breeding, numbers WILL get out of hand. Culls and sales are a necessary part of that.

I know when I cull the meat rabbits that there will be more time for care, more space, and more quality forage for the rabbits that are left. Not pleasant, nor easy to do, but I focus on the end results, not on the process.

Just pull it together.
Living in a mess that is too much just sucks.

I think many people can relate to getting into a situation that isn't sustainable. It sounds like you've gone out of your way to make sure your animals are well cared for, so there is nothing to be ashamed of.


The hardest part is accepting the reality that you are telling yourself that something needs to change.

Don't be embarrassed, know you are doing it for your well-being and the well-being of the animals too. Like others have said, make a list of your goals, and a list of your options on what to do next. Are there other good breeders around who might give your animals good homes?

Take your time and try not to make rash decisions. When the right solution presents itself, you'll feel it.

Hope you guys are still here.

I have re-organized my life since my last post, and tasks are done more systematically, and things are running much more smoothly. Tasks take less time to complete now. I have started selling off some animals, and have taken a bunch to a store I know well for them to sell on my behalf. I have also rearranged other parts of my personal life and it makes more time.

However, I have a doubt as to whether I still want to do this or not. I still love reptiles, but this is really a lot of work, and part of me misses those days when I just had a few which I could just enjoy.

I don't know if I should take some time to think about it now that things are more under control or not, to see if this will work out? Maybe I am just bummed out?

On the other hand, what about next year? Will it become unsustainable again? Because if you do breed, there will be holdbacks, to get new morphs. Otherwise, what is the point?

If I quit, what would I do? Not sure if I am too old to go back to what I did before (I was a competitive athlete), and if not, probably not more than a few more years before I do become too old.

When I started this journey a few years ago with the purchase of just 2 snakes, I dreamt of becoming a big breeder like the big guys in the industry which I admired. I knew at some point I would need to take the next step of turning it into a business, with costs, employees etc., and now I have reached that crossroads I guess, much sooner than I expected. I have many mental blocks, because believe it or not, I have my degree from one of if not the best business schools in the world (same one Trump keeps bragging about :p), but after I graduated from college with great grades and awards, I tried starting a few businesses which eventually failed. I have been working in other fields since those years and don't feel confidence going back.

If I quit, I feel it is such a shame. So much success in breeding, even new morph combos, if not in business, at least in the art of breeding. So much effort dedicated and I already built everything, racks and all. Should I just throw it all away? THAT in and of itself sounds like a daunting task.

I am almost afraid to think about this because, and those of you who believe in a God, please tell me what you think, if I don't know what to do, I am afraid God will create some huge disaster in my life to "decide" for me, so I have no choice. Something like this has happened before (be it a God or just chance), and even though it DID lead to great things in my life as a result of that past disaster, I am not sure if I would want to go through that again, even with hindsight. I am so afraid. God isn't supposed to interfere with free will, right?

My friend who used to be one of the biggest breeders of fish (bettas I believe they are called) I had not seen in a few years. He completely does not keep any more nor even contact people who keep animals anymore. Oh I am going to stop typing because I am quite afraid now. Worked myself up. I just am at the crossroads of not knowing to go forward (gradually? Large scale) to commercialize my hobby, or to take a step back and just have pets. I wish I could find a partner with whom my strengths and weaknesses would complement with his/her traits so we can help each other, kind of like Brian and Lori. There was something in the talks a couple weeks ago but for various reasons, I doubt that will work out (or even on the table anymore) now. Anyway, I will shut up now.

IMO i f i were feeling burned out, i would cut back. i would only keep the animals that mean the most to me and/or have the potential to yield the most revenue if i ever wanna pick it back up again.

also have u sold off your enclosures too? your handcrafted enclosures and backgrounds are works of art. you've made some amazing stuff. maybe u wanna do that on the side instead of breeding.

i hope u find passion and inspiration in whatever u decide on. all my best.

I have not sold my hand made enclosures etc. because the animals in those are not sold. The ones I have sold over the past weeks are snakes, and I have gotten to the point where my snakes are all in my racks now, instead of 30 extra snakes or so in boxes and heat pads everywhere. I doubt I would want to do enclosure building nor background making for work though. There isn't much profit I don't think and it is a LOT of work and there isn't enough room in my apartment to do that large scale. Every time I do it for myself my apartment ends up a total mess for a couple of weeks. If I do art perhaps something else because I do think I have talent there. In reptile industry the way things are here in this city I think profit wise without considering passion or enjoyment would probably be just to sell f/t rats. There is always a demand over supply for those.

As for animals I do know I need to cut back and have, as I said, already began the process. There are animals I enjoy keeping as pets, such as my tegus, skinks, not so much the frogs anymore, but with no intention to breed. Then there are things I keep because while I am fascinated by them, 85 to 90% of the reason is to breed for new morphs and combos etc. That is where my interest lies. I would not see the point if keeping a rack full of snakes if I don't breed. I don't really know how to do things in moderation, and have an all or none personality. When I was an athlete I would become champion locally and in provincial competitions and even once won an international competition, but would be sad a lot of times because I wasn't world champion as I had envisioned as a wide eyed teenager. I also was an actor for some years and within a short time got speaking parts and even a regular part on a sitcom before that career sort of dried up. My non acting friends would think it is great just because I was on TV, and my acting friends who were at it for years but still doing "guy in the back of crowd" roles thought it was great that I kind of got sonewhere at least, but I was always resentful that I didn't "make it to the top". I have only began to let go of these things very recently (as in the past few months) after reading some self help books. Call it issues, challenges, personality defect or mental illness, whatever you will, but while I know these issues are things I need to resolve, they are there, and probably will be for some time.

I am gradually making changes here and there but want to make sure I am not making a mistake because I am currently bummed out. I do want to know which direction I am going though, go full on and try to start a business or just cut back and enjoy my pets. I don't really know how to "kinda" do something.

As for animals which potentially yield the most profits, there is a dilema here. Now that I have started ro sell off some snakes, I find that the crappy snake genes (for want of a better term) are much more easier to sell because of lower price. I have sold a bunch of normals, pastels, lessers, single gene animals already, but the 4, 5 gene animals, the double recessives etc. which are on display at the store, everyone is oohing and aahing at them, but no one wants to shell out the bucks to buy them. I have only sold one of those so far, a soul sucker yellowbelly. At the same time, my passion for breeding IS to create these high end morphs. I don't think I would be interested in deliberately breeding tons of spiders or pastels or whatever to sell. Might as well just sell f/t rats. More money for less effort.

What you are going through is a very emotional dicision. If it helps then i would say that you need to look at your goals, and how can i eliminate the fewest of my pets and still achieve my goals, of having more time, less work, and save some money. So sit down and write down a list of what takes in time, and resourses, and go from there. Remember which ever way you go it will be sad, but if you worry only about the placement of the animal in a good home and not how much you can get for an animal you will feel better about the process.

Thank you for all your responses. The main thing isn't letting go of the animals and feeling sad though. The main thing is I haven't decided yet which direction to go. Either go back to just a few animals as pets, or full steam ahead and start an official breeding business. I'm kind of at the spot where I'm in between, too big to enjoy just as keeping pets and taking care of them in my own free time, but not yet big enough there to becoming a full fledged big breeder with a facility, employees etc. At the crossroads of forwards or backwards.

I noticed you said there were animals you just enjoy keeping, with no intent on breeding. That sounds like a relaxing path to consider. And it's self-limiting if there's no one reproducing. Also, if you're looking to reclaim some human space and you have designer display cages, plan out a room for relaxation and quiet entertaining utilizing a few cages as accents or focal pieces. Then decide which of your animals would display the nicest and keep those. Good luck. Keep us posted. And remember to breathe. It helps with the stress.

Also, when scaling back on anything, it has been easier for me to do it away from all the "stuff." I've gone to Wegmans for a hot tea and sweet roll (comfort food), found a quiet spot, and gone through my lists with pros and cons to weed out. It makes decisions easier if you can create some breathing space for yourself.