Difficultly level?

Ok I am new to the whole breeding scene as iv never done it and don't plan on it for probably a couple years but I was wandering let's say I just wanna breed regular bp no morphs how hard is it and how much money am I looking to put into to get everything I need (roughly)..... Just curious because I would love to do it but I don't have near the knowledge I need to be capable of breeding.....thank you in advance

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It is not very hard. The most costly item will be a good incubator.
But breeding normals will have no return at all. It is rather hard to find homes for them
Might i suggest if you do not want to invest a lot in your stock that you try simple morphs like pastels and mojave and pinstripes. They can be found cheap and are much easyer to resell

I really want to build up to it I wanna take it a step at a time..... The main thing I don't understand is like dominant and recessive genes but I guess unless I'm looking to make a certain type I really wouldn't need to know right off hand would i? But it's like I said it will be awhile before I acually get into it so I have time to do a lot of research on it... But I will definitely look into those morphs right now I only have one normal bp and it's my first snake he is about 4 months old iv only had him for 5 days now I wanna learn all I can about keeping them happy and healthy before I tackle a big task like breeding.... But I know one thing for sure I want to make snakes a hobby.... Thank you

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Study, study, study then determine if you want to breed. There are many factors to consider especially economical. There are very few situations that are economically exceptable to justify breeding a normal. I know of no one that breeds to make normals. Normals are the result when the odds go against the breeder. Don't get me wrong, normals are just as good as any other ball as a pet but they are not worth much money wise. It costs the same to keep and breed a high end morph as it does a normal the only difference is the initial cost.

I see and that does make a lot of sense I would love to breed morphs but I want to make sure I'm financially and mentally prepared cuz I'm sure it takes a lot of patience as well as money

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You will need to either maternal ly incubate or build an incubator which will be around $150

You will need to build or buy an hatchling rack (size will depend on the number or cluches) shooting for 6 to 12 tubs since that is the average number of eggs, of course that will mean another Reliable thermostat, that alone will be $150.

You will need to find a reliable food source or breed your own which means building a rack for your feeders.

You are looking at $300 to $500 and it could add up if you cannot sell your offsprings which can be very hard with normals, and if they do sell you are looking at making back $15 if lucky per animals.

So financially it translate as a loss every time you will breed your normal, from the initial investment to the fact that by the time you sell them (if you do) you will have spend more in food to feed them than what they are worth.

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So if and when I get it all set up what should I start out breeding to be able to break even or even make a buck or two for the first couple times till I can get established in it im really liking what stillbp suggested.... thank you very much for information

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Originally Posted by erebus45

So if and when I get it all set up what should I start out breeding to be able to break even or even make a buck or two for the first couple times till I can get established in it im really liking what stillbp suggested.... thank you very much for information

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To break even or make a profit you will need to make a good investment to do that you will need to know and understand the market.

To me my goals when I started (10 years ago) were two things, produced the animals I could not afford and have a collection paying for itself at some point, I reached those goals and more I have been making a profit for several years however I chose not to do that for a living.

So it depends what you want to get out of it, fun experience not caring if you lose money, produce cool animals and have a collection paying for itself, produce cool animals and make some extra cash, or make a living at it.

And if you invest in single gene like Mojave, Pinstripe, Pastel there is hardly any return either we are talking about animals between $25 and $75 which by the time you will produce some will have dropped even more.

If you want to get a good start investing in a 2 to 3 gene female is where I would start and than in about 12 to 18 months get a male, the most gene you can afford, again it's about knowing your market, and of course it will have to do with promoting yourself as well, even if you were to buy and produce expensive animals selling them if no one heard of you might not be that easy.

Wow thank you so much I will definitely take that and run with it I will for sure start researching genes and pricing the stuff I need I am currently 19 being i am a electrician theirs kinda I limit on money but then again not really and I have some yrs to be able to learn.... Thank you

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As with any business, plan on loosing money for the first few years. There is a lot to be learned between the time you buy the snakes and the time those little eggs hatch and you actually find someone willing to buy them. There are also a lot of things that can come up in the process that will cut into your bottom line. You may get a snake that does not like to eat making getting size on it frustrating at best, you may get one that gets sick, you may get one that is sterile and can't breed or one simply not interested in breeding.

As stated above, from a monetary standpoint starting with normals is a bad idea. It will be easier to make them than it will be to sell them. You want to pick snakes there will be a demand for when you finally get them. Co dominant genes are nice because you only need 1 animal to have the gene to pass it on however the price drops faster on them because you can produce a lot more of them a lot faster than recessive. You also have less control in the sense that you always run the risk of getting a normal. Recessive are more expensive comparatively speaking but will hold value longer. The other downside is you need both parents to be het at a minimum. Then there are genes prone to issues.
At this point you need to look at the genes that appeal to you. Research them, research genetics, research the market and evaluate what you are willing and able to invest.
I would recommend approaching it like a hobby that has the potential to break even if you play it smart. After a few years and clutches you will be in a better position to decide if making a business out of it is feasible for you.

Best piece advice to be given is RESEARCH, RESEARCH, RESEARCH!

You can go ahead a breed your normal to lets say a mojave and end up with a clutch of all normals and mojaves. You are only doing it for fun at this point, so you don't invest in two gene females or higher end morphs. What will you do with the babies? Are you prepared to care for the entire clutch if need be? The demand for normals is very low, with the market being as saturated as it is with spectacular animals. And Mojaves may sell a little quicker but most people may pass up your one gene mojaves for two or three gene combos that have more potential.

So if you do decide down the road to breed them, really do your homework on genetics. Find genes and morphs that you really love so if by the off chance you can't find homes for them, you don't mind keeping them.

Then comes the expenses, something that you read about but you can't full understand until you are knee deep into the game. I've been building my collection for the last year and half now. I've made sure I've not only invested in genes that I really love and want to work with but with higher end, multi gene animals as well. I don't have the exact amount but I've spent well over $1500 on snakes alone, making sure I have the best quality animals I could have found. Then comes the equipment. With owning multiple animals, its easier to keep them in racks, so be ready to invest in those as well. I've gotten two and am already in need of another because all my snakes are growing very quickly. Heating equipment is another investment to consider. I've heard horror stories of people losing entire collections due to equipment short circuiting, etc. So invest wisely! Then there's the bedding and the weekly food expense. I spend approximately $26 a week on rats and another $20 every other week on bedding. You can use paper towels or newspaper to save money, but I just prefer actual bedding.

To be honest, after all this investment, you most likely won't break even for a while. Unless you initially invest in a higher end project like clowns, pieds, desert ghosts, etc... I most likely won't be breaking even for a couple years after I finally get my girls going but to be completely honest, thats the least of my concerns. I had the money to invest and I did, but not for profitable reasons. I wanted to create stunning animals of high quality and hopefully someday I'll be able to show all of you on this forum the product of my hard work and time and effort!

When It comes down to it, just really make sure its something you are ready to do. Don't become one of these backyard breeders that give the hobby a bad name. If you do decide to take the plunge, do it the smart way and do it because you want to, not to make a quick buck. Pick the best animals you can and make sure they are animals you are going to love looking at everyday when you open their tubs.


Good luck!

My point on the single gene was ment to be single gene females that were not overly expensive to start a project. I stick by that. But i personaly would buy a power house (5x6 gene) male to put to those single gene females. And make it one that gives the best combos for what ever females you did get. If you keep your eyes out you could get a great male for less than a good female.

See that also the thing I don't just wanna do it for the profit (yea that's nice and all) but I honestly just love snakes and would love to do it for a hobby(passion)..... If been doing a lot of research here latley I think I have the basics down for the genetics and things of that nature now I'm just looking for racks, how to heat the rack, should I build my own or just buy some, if anybody could point me in the right direction of those things I would greatly appreciate it

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Having normal is not a bad thing in my opinion, and there are many strategies to different breeding plans. You could use five or six gene animals like the example above, or you could stick with one high end male for example and breed to all normal females.

Here's one example, say you had half a dozen normal ball python females and you bred to a Super Bamboo. Right now super bamboos are selling for about $3,500. Every single snake you produce would be a bamboo and they would all sell for at least $700 (per current market prices). Keep in mind that prices can plummet (and usually do) so if you bought your normals and super bamboo today by the time they were old enough to have eggs / babies (about 2-3 years down the road) bamboos may be really cheap.

Breeding a pair of normals would be a neat experiment to just dabble in breeding for the first time. I'm sure if you advertised you could give away the babies on Craig's List for free or for a small fee. If you decide you like breeding you could always jump into it more seriously down the road.

Another option would be to use one normal (male or female) and pair with something that always has a super gene, that way you'll never get normal babies. And you could get normal breeders for a very low cost, even adult single gene animals can be had for cheap.

That's another option, pick up a couple adult snakes ready to breed, it will cut down your wait time and you'll have babies in no time at all. That's the strategy I'm using now, I have a bunch of baby breeders and am working to pick up a pair of adults that will hopefully breed and pay for my rodents while I'm waiting for my babies to mature enough to breed.

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Originally Posted by erebus45

See that also the thing I don't just wanna do it for the profit (yea that's nice and all) but I honestly just love snakes and would love to do it for a hobby(passion)..... If been doing a lot of research here latley I think I have the basics down for the genetics and things of that nature now I'm just looking for racks, how to heat the rack, should I build my own or just buy some, if anybody could point me in the right direction of those things I would greatly appreciate it

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http://www.apcages.com/

http://www.cserpents.com/C_Serpents_...K_SYSTEMS.html

http://www.reptilebasics.com/reptile-rack-systems

http://www.boaphileplastics.com/

http://www.herptasticreptiles.com/


The links above are for companies that make racks you can order and ship to your home. I've personally used C Serpents and I had a great experience and couldn't be happier with the quality of the rack I got. Others may have other personal preferences. All come with the option of having the heat tape pre-installed.

http://www.spyderrobotics.com/index....=index&cPath=1

This link ^^ is for thermostats to heat the rack and maintain the temperature. You can find other brands for cheaper but any day of the week i'd recommend herpstats. I just got one myself and its the best. Super easy to set up and I trust that my snakes heat source is being maintained properly.

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Originally Posted by ChelseaV

http://www.apcages.com/

http://www.cserpents.com/C_Serpents_...K_SYSTEMS.html

http://www.reptilebasics.com/reptile-rack-systems

http://www.boaphileplastics.com/

http://www.herptasticreptiles.com/


The links above are for companies that make racks you can order and ship to your home. I've personally used C Serpents and I had a great experience and couldn't be happier with the quality of the rack I got. Others may have other personal preferences. All come with the option of having the heat tape pre-installed.

http://www.spyderrobotics.com/index....=index&cPath=1

This link ^^ is for thermostats to heat the rack and maintain the temperature. You can find other brands for cheaper but any day of the week i'd recommend herpstats. I just got one myself and its the best. Super easy to set up and I trust that my snakes heat source is being maintained properly.

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There are a few options for racks that were left out of the list above, so for the sake of completeness, I'll add them here.

I currently use a Vision rack (V70 5-level I bought it with a group of snakes). This rack is ok... but maintaining temps in a normal room (a room that isn't heated) can be a hassle. My VE-200 is set to 102°f to keep my "hot side" at 89°f.
http://visionproducts.us/vp12wp/?page_id=20

The rack I REALLY want is the Freedom Breeder 1040 rack:
http://www.freedombreeder.com/shop/reptile-1040

While it seems really expensive, it has a total of 40 tubs, so to get a cost-comparison, you'd need to get 10x "Ball Room Rack" (http://www.boaphileplastics.com/rhin...ball_room.html), or about $4,000 for the same number of tubs. The main advantage of the Ball Room Rack is you can scale it... so you buy 1-2 now, and just add more as your collection grows. Personally, I'm just going to save up and get the 1040 (if I can convince the Mrs. that I need that many tubs.)

Thanks for all the links and advice I think I'm going to save money up and get one super ready to breed and get another normal ready to breed and start their so I'm not waiting so long but it's still all up in the air I'm writing it down as hopes and dreams right now but anything is possible I guess.... Once again thanks to everybody that has gave the info I needed

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