justified blame for "killing" friends young ball python?

Ok so this the semi short story. Roommate bought a ball python about 2 months ago from Petsmart. He (for convince) was about 12 inches long and refusedto eat. He was being offered thawed pinkie. My roommate brought the snake to the vet who force fed the snake. Now I didn't go with roommate but supposedly roommate was told to keep trying to feed the snake every other day. Now to me that sounds like a lot of stress on the baby BP. Also was supposedly told to force feed by giving 1ml of this paste that looked like pancake batter.

Now my roommates took a vacation and had a friend stop by every other to "feed the snake". Since I hate seeing an animal suffer, I looked up everything I could on feeding. The pinkie were the right size if not a bit small.

Now I know I am in the wrong for messing with another persons pet but I felt like I had to try something.

The next time their friend came over I recommended I try "force" feeding a warmed up pinkie.
I had watched videos and read few breeder's guides and a few mentioned that some young BP don't know the pinkie is food. also the videos showed techniques. I gently held the snake while I "booped" hit nose GENTLY. Third boop he opened his mouth and I plopped the pinkie in. I did not force it down, nor did I force his mouth open with anything.
Well He move around a bit then settled down, pinkie still in mouth. After about 3 mins he started to work the mouse down and soon it was swallowed.

Fast forward 3 days and the snake was still alive and active when held briefly.
Now fast forward 4 more days and my roommate says the snake is dead and it's my fault. First she said that the snake must of had a blockage and the pinkie killed it. 2 days later she is now telling me the BP had symptoms of a broken neck or jaw and that it was my rough handling that killed it. Now I know human medicine better but I doubt a snake with a broken neck or jaw would be as active when being held or let to explore (an arm and lap that is)
Now again I know the feeding without permission from the owner was incredibly wrong and was done with the best intentions. Also yes I know what they say about good intentions. I feel horrible that the snake died

What I want to know is if any of that sounds like I directly killed the snake, that my actions had a good chance in causing the snakes death or that the feeding and the snakes death happens to coincide. Also your opinion on the actual cause of death.
I feel guilty but being told "you killed my snake by breaking it's neck" is a bit harsh

Don't know what you are expecting?
Without taking the animal to a vet for a necropsy you will never know.

I'm assuming what you want is a thread to show your roommate and say "I told you so" but none of us were there and we are only getting one side of the story.

99% of the time, snakes do not need to be force fed when people think they do. They need security and correct husbandry. So if you want my thoughts, all parties involved didn't take proper action, even the vet. But I am only judging that on what I am reading, I wasn't there to witness anything.

Feeding an animal that is trying to adjust to its new environment that often is only going to stress it out more and make it not want to eat. Whether this stress killed it or a broken neck is not the biggest issue. Not leaving the animal alone and allowing it to settle did it no favors.


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Just wanted to know if anybody had any insight. Like if the snake would have lasted that long with a broken neck or shouldn't have a broken jaw from that feeding. Or of couse a ' yup snake probably constipated, that pinkie must have done it"
Again I feel horrible. Just would like insight on what probably/possibly went wrong.

I don't want to go ha see to the roommate. I just want some insight on what probably went wrong. The every other day feeding attempt I'm sure didn't do any favors. Neither did the stress from "force" feeding.

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Originally Posted by tattoovendetta

I don't want to go ha see to the roommate. I just want some insight on what probably went wrong. The every other day feeding attempt I'm sure didn't do any favors. Neither did the stress from "force" feeding.

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Then it's time for a necropsy otherwise you'll never know for sure what the cause of death was.

Honestly I'd say your both to blame. Sounds like you did zero research before purchasing this animal because if you did you'd know one of the first basic rules is to never handle a new snake until it's eaten at least two meals. Snakes aren't stupid and know what food is BUT they also will not eat until they are comfortable in their surroundings. Ball pythons are a reclusive animal that spends 90% of their time hiding, their shy and are easily stressed by constant handling. Force or assisted feeding is something only an expert should ever attempt. I've had ball pythons going on two years now and no way do I feel I'm qualified or knowledgable enough to attempt it.

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Originally Posted by cheosamad

Then it's time for a necropsy otherwise you'll never know for sure what the cause of death was.

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This. Now that said...
- If this critter was sold by PetSmart it likely wasn't in the best of health to begin with. We don't know if it was eating well when they purchased it.
- We do not know if the snake was set up correctly, especially for heat and humidity. We don't know if the snake wasn't eating because it was stressed, because it hadn't been well started, or because it was too cold. If your roommate bought the equipment based on the recommendation on the PetSmart employee it likely was not in a good setup.
- The snake hadn't eaten in two months.

Given all of that I very much doubt that the OP's assist feeding killed the snake. Assist feeding is recommended as a last resort but I've had a few breeders suggest sometimes people wait too long, and they wait so long that the critter is debilitated to the point that it physically can't digest the meal. This may have been such a case.
At any rate OP I doubt that you broke the snake's neck if it survived for several days after you fed it.

The pancake batter paste may have been Carnivore Care, which is often tube fed to a severely malnourished reptile.

Here is the issue you can only have an hatchling not eating and being force-fed for so long before the animal finally dies, repetitive force feedings are very stressful, that combined with the nearly non existant nutritional value of pinkies is enough to kill a BP.

Your roommate should have done more research on how to get an animal to eat, the vet was not the solution and is obviously not experienced with herps and BP in particular, the friend who suggested force feeding is also lacking the experience, so if someone want to put blame on someone else than everyone is to blame.

When people buy a new BP if they have limited experience they usually all have the same issue of their animal not wanting to eat for them and in 99% of the cases it is husbandry related which does not require any force feeding.

Force feeding should be something done as a last resort and is only usually done with animals that will not eat out of the egg even than assisting is always tried first.

My advice before anyone rush to buy another snake, do so research on how to properly setup an hatchling and get him to eat.

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the road to hell is paved with good intentions. People are protective of their pets, its usually best to try and give advice but to not take action yourself without permission. It sounds like you meant well but because the animal died your roommate is going to want to place the blame on you. Weather or not it was your fault or someone elses this is a good lesson to learn.

Hope your roommate situation does not go sour because of this but if you have the cash buying another snake would go a long way to mend the relationship. Make sure you have good husbandry first !

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Originally Posted by bcr229

This. Now that said...
- If this critter was sold by PetSmart it likely wasn't in the best of health to begin with. We don't know if it was eating well when they purchased it.
- We do not know if the snake was set up correctly, especially for heat and humidity. We don't know if the snake wasn't eating because it was stressed, because it hadn't been well started, or because it was too cold. If your roommate bought the equipment based on the recommendation on the PetSmart employee it likely was not in a good setup.
- The snake hadn't eaten in two months.

Given all of that I very much doubt that the OP's assist feeding killed the snake. Assist feeding is recommended as a last resort but I've had a few breeders suggest sometimes people wait too long, and they wait so long that the critter is debilitated to the point that it physically can't digest the meal. This may have been such a case.
At any rate OP I doubt that you broke the snake's neck if it survived for several days after you fed it.

The pancake batter paste may have been Carnivore Care, which is often tube fed to a severely malnourished reptile.

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I appreciate the information. I had mentioned to the roommate that a better hide should be in there. A note I forgot to mention was they bought the enclosure from a friend who's BP also died.
with it not being my pet, I didn't have any real say.
I also know that they handled the snake a dozen times or so since they bought it.
Again I'm not asking to point blame, I just felt their might have been other events involved. Not the best feeling in the world to be told you killed someone's pet.

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Originally Posted by Ba11er

the road to hell is paved with good intentions. People are protective of their pets, its usually best to try and give advice but to not take action yourself without permiss. It sounds like you meant well but because the animal died your roommate is going to want to place the blame on you. Weather or not it was your fault or someone elses this is a good lesson to learn.

Hope your roommate situation does not go sour because of this but if you have the cash buying another snake would go a long way to mend the relationship. Make sure you have good husbandry first !

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I would call my bottle of liquor I picked up in Germany coming back from my second deployment, that I was saving for a special occasion, being poured over my bed while I was gone a bit souring. But yes, I should have stayed out of it.

As mentioned by others, force feeding is a last resort and is often not necessary. Non feeding BP are usually a direct result of improper husbandry. BP MUST have all their needs met properly if you want them to eat. Mouse pinkies are not a good food choice for BP.

IF the snake's neck was broken like your roommate claims, then necropsy is the way to go. HOWEVER, It's important to understand that necropsies are ideally done in roughly 24 hours on an animal that had deceased. Anything longer than that can prove to be difficult, as autolysis (decomposition) runs its course.

It's really hard to tell what truly happened as there are a lot of variables here (one side of story, health of snake at pet smart, etc). HOWEVER, if your roommate's BP suffer cervical dislocation (medical lingo for broken neck), then the snake would have died immediately. In fact, that's considered an acceptable form of euthanasia for snakes up to a certain size.

Re: vet: it sounds like that vet was not a herp vet or at least one that was knowledgable on BP.

Now if the snake had a blockage as your roommate claims, then it would have had to see a herp vet regardless.

This is a case where both parties are at fault. Probably not what you want to hear. Use this experience as a lesson learned for next time. Before acquiring ANY animal, people need to do their research on the species they are looking to acquire.


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Originally Posted by tattoovendetta

I appreciate the information. I had mentioned to the roommate that a better hide should be in there. A note I forgot to mention was they bought the enclosure from a friend who's BP also died.

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It might have been an issue from that BP that the enclosure was not properly cleaned.