Talk me out of this.

I was browsing on fauna classifieds today and found two snakes for $20. And they're not baby normals. They're adult males over 1000g. One is Axanthic and the other is a Spider Mojave. The owner is offering a low price for local pickup because they don't want to ship. I'm so tempted to get them.

They're both great snakes and I'd love to have these morphs in my collection, but I won't have room for them when my juveniles get bigger. I don't have any females large enough to breed and I'd have to feed them in the meantime. I suppose I could pick them up and then try to sell them for a profit (and I could really use the money to pay off what I've spent on other snakes) but I don't know for sure that I'd find buyers.

My sense of pragmatism says this is a bad idea, but the rest of me really really wants them.

You'll only find enablers here! That's an absolute steal on two snakes. I'm sure I'd be in the same position as you, hard to pass up but then you've got to provide for them as well. I'm currently talking myself out of all sorts of new snakes I'd love to have haha

I'd ask more questions for 20 dollars a snake. But if it's legit thats highway murder.


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Don't do it.

I think you answer your on question on why not to do it as for that

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I suppose I could pick them up and then try to sell them for a profit

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I can tell you my name and reputation are far to important to me to vouch and re-sell animals of unknown history with who knows what kind of issue possible that could actually cost you more money than you will make.

I wouldn't take the risk.....

Warning, warning, danger Will Robinson!!

I saw the ad and assume that you're local to the seller so this will be a face-to-face transaction. I would at least go and take a look at them with $20 cash in my pocket.

If you do bring them home, you'll have time to build or buy (yet) another rack while the juveniles grow up.

but I don't know for sure that I'd find buyers.

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You mentioned not having females large enough to breed yet and make it sound as if that's your intention when they are older. If you're concerned with selling 2 snakes, how will you sell multiple babies? Just something to consider before you make that leap. But as for your question, I'd be pretty skeptical of those snakes and definitely give them a good look over if you decide to get them. Seems like the seller could make more money just putting them on craigslist.

If it sounds too good to be true, it is


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Sounds like a scam or something is wrong with them. Steer clear and don't look back. Where there's smoke there's fire.

Yeah, I'm local to the seller. I could go have a good look at the snakes before I make a decision, and I may just do that. I have space in my rack for the time being, but in a year or two I would have to either sell them or make another rack.


@ Deborah: Thanks for you comment. I don't have a name or reputation to worry about, but that's all the more reason to be careful. If I were to get them I would keep them in quarantine for a few months to make sure there are no issues. Current owner says they're healthy, but you never know. The seller did include pictures in the add and they look great, but that's no substitute for checking them out in person. I could even have a vet check them out, if it comes to that.


The bottom line is that I know there is a reason for the low price. I live in an area where snakes are up for sale on craigslist all the time. Availability outstrips demand and even morphs at rock bottom prices take awhile to sell (though they usually do sell eventually). So I think this is worth looking into. There are probably people on this forum who know more about snakes than I ever will, but I know my local climate.


@ HannahLou: I figure it would be easier to ship hatchlings than adults. There isn't much of a local market where I live, but I know my way around the internet and I'm willing to ship. I also know a few local hobbyists and a breeder who runs a pet shop, but you never know if they'll be interested.


I suppose I'm more worried that if I get them I'll want to keep them. My kids already think I'm obsessive for having so many snakes, but what do they know? :snake:

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Originally Posted by the_rotten1

Yeah, I'm local to the seller. I could go have a good look at the snakes before I make a decision, and I may just do that.

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Defiantly look before you leap on this one those are way too cheap

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Originally Posted by the_rotten1

@ Deborah: Thanks for you comment. I don't have a name or reputation to worry about, but that's all the more reason to be careful.

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exactly remember you will want a good name in this business if you want to sell babies in the future

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Originally Posted by the_rotten1;

I could even have a vet check them out, if it comes to that.

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you should do this regardless
I would and do have a vet check all animals i buy and sell. but remember that it adds to your cost if you plan to resale
if you do buy them and have a vet look at them still quarantine them just to be safe you never know what could be harmful to your whole collection that they may be hiding

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Originally Posted by the_rotten1;

@ HannahLou: I figure it would be easier to ship hatchlings than adults.

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actually about the same i've shipped babies and adults it is a bit more money due to the heavier weight but not a lot
regardless on what you do be careful about buying something that is way too good a deal there is usually a reason

Doesn't matter if you have space in your rack; you need to quarantine!

Personally I'd snatch up those snakes in a heartbeat. I always get steals on snakes that people advertise with local pickup only, just bought one that the guy got for $1,500 and he sold it to me for $500. Some people don't want to ship, it would take a long time to find someone in the area that is going to buy those genes and add to their collection or breed for those specific morphs, especially males. If you don't ship the market is tough. I found another local guy that bought a high end reticulated python for $1,200, I think he realized he is in over his head, can't ship it back out of state, local buyers only. I'm thinking I can work on him and get that snake for just a couple hundred bucks. I usually throw out a low ball price, they refuse, then in a month or two they start to panic and they sell HA! Some of my snakes I got for free. 8)

Personally I'd keep them and breed them, just build out the space. You could even keep them in plastic totes with under tank heaters with thermostats or just crank up the temp in your snake room.

Be sure to ask the guy about the genetics, where did he get them from, does he know if they are heterozygous for anything. They could be worth a fortune if they are het for the right genes. If he doesn't know maybe you can track down the guy he bought them from.

Also check them for mites, ask the guy if he treated them for mites at any point since he got them. Mites are easily cured but it's a pain to bring them in the house.

GO FOR IT!

I messaged the owner yesterday, no word yet. I was kind hoping to get a look at them on the way back from the Pomona reptile show today, but it was really short notice. In the meantime I have a nice new kingsnake and a lovely Enchi het pied.

@ cchardwick: I don't have a dedicated snake room. Just a few snakes in my bedroom. I could do the tubs and UTHs though. Those are some good questions and suggestions, thanks!

Last time I found a "good deal" the two snakes both came with RI and mites. Since they've been to the vet and are now in good health, and are still in quarantine. You have to weigh the risks to the potential reward. Only you can decide that.

Dave

@Dave: Thanks. I'll be careful. I've only bought from reputable breeders until now (with the exception of one local guy who owns a pet shop) so I haven't had any problems. I don't know this seller's reputation, so I'll give them both a good look over.

Pics of my new babies:
http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...8142016-01.png
Mexican Black Kingsnake.

http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...8142016-04.png
Cindy, my new Enchi het pied.

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Originally Posted by the_rotten1

@Dave: Thanks. I'll be careful. I've only bought from reputable breeders until now (with the exception of one local guy who owns a pet shop) so I haven't had any problems. I don't know this seller's reputation, so I'll give them both a good look over.

Pics of my new babies:
http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...8142016-01.png
Mexican Black Kingsnake.

http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...8142016-04.png
Cindy, my new Enchi het pied.

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Both look good. How can you tell that's an Enchi? That looks a lot more Pastel to me. Not saying it is, just curious if Enchi has any specific markers.


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i actually have legit breeders sell their BP's on CL in my area. some have storefronts, websites, listings on Fauna, etc. as well as CL. and of course we have the $100 Normals, het's being sold as visuals, mis-identified morphs, etc. being sold by random peeps who no longer want their pets.

Edit: there are good finds on CL sometimes. u just have to look over the snakes with a fine tooth comb and even then QT.

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Originally Posted by cheosamad

Both look good. How can you tell that's an Enchi? That looks a lot more Pastel to me. Not saying it is, just curious if Enchi has any specific markers.

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i agree w/ Cheo. are u sure that just not a Pastel from a Enchi x Pastel (het Pied) pairing? pattern is too busy esp. the last half and the colors are off. nice MBK tho. very slick!

That picture was taken right next to an open window so it's a bit washed out. These ones show the orange on her back better, though I've gotta admit her background is darker than most enchis.

http://oi68.tinypic.com/20fuyk3.jpg

http://oi66.tinypic.com/347tk5s.jpg

What do you think? I suppose she could be really orange for a pastel, or really yellow for an enchi. Whichever she is, I think she's gorgeous.

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Originally Posted by the_rotten1

That picture was taken right next to an open window so it's a bit washed out. These ones show the orange on her back better, though I've gotta admit her background is darker than most enchis.

http://oi68.tinypic.com/20fuyk3.jpg

http://oi66.tinypic.com/347tk5s.jpg

What do you think? I suppose she could be really orange for a pastel, or really yellow for an enchi. Whichever she is, I think she's gorgeous.

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I agree she is gorgeous. I lean pastel honestly. One of my favorite morphs. What color are her eyes?

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Originally Posted by the_rotten1

What do you think? I suppose she could be really orange for a pastel, or really yellow for an enchi. Whichever she is, I think she's gorgeous.

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Pastel, no enchi.

Not an enchi, so probably not het pied either, sure it's a she?

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I did a little googling and it looks like I'm not the first person who's had problems with the guy who sold me this "enchi". For the record, it was Jon Levey of Jon's Jungle.

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...y-with-caution

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...ad.php?t=29056

Maybe it was just an honest mistake, but now that I know his track record I kinda doubt it. Wish I'd googled him before I bought. I'm not sure what to do now, aside from forgetting about the snakes I wrote this post about. If I can't even tell a pastel from an enchi then I have no business making deals with random strangers over the internet.

I'm going to email him about this, though I don't expect much of a response at this point.

Thanks guys. Without your help I wouldn't have known, at least not until it was too late to do anything. The transaction was recent enough that I might be able to get my money back. If he doesn't want to work with me then maybe paypal will.

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Originally Posted by Deborah

Not an enchi, so probably not het pied either, sure it's a she?

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This right here.

Quick update for anyone who cares. I got a hold of the seller and I was pleasantly surprised with his response. He was courteous, professional, and seemed very apologetic that I was dissatisfied. To resolve the issue I suggested a partial refund and that he allow me to keep the snake, because I didn't want return her. He willingly agreed. She's a healthy, well-mannered snake and I love her colors even if she doesn't have the genes I was after. (He did keep insisting she was an enchi, but I would have none of it. Now that I've researched enchis more the difference is pretty obvious. You know what they say, hindsight is 20/20.)

As for the snake herself: Her eyes are mostly dark, not like the lighter eyes enchis have. I'm pretty sure she's female though. No hemipenes when I popped her, not even any red near the sides of her cloaca where they would come out, and her tail is pencil thin. She also has het pied markers, though I know that doesn't guarantee anything. I'm going to keep her until she's big enough to breed and we'll see if she proves out.

I've really learned the value of buying from reputable breeders. I purchased one snake off Craigslist from a private party and she has come with problems that are now about to reach the $1000 mark in vet bills, which is considerably more than I paid for her (keep that in mind when the initial price is a deal like $20). All of my other snakes have come from breeders I knew I could trust and haven't had any issues.

Our three new baby womas came from him. Transaction went smoothly, shipping was prompt and the animals arrived in great condition. After the male refused food on week 1 feeding I text him and he immediately responded even though he was out of the country.
Not saying he did not make a mistake in your ordeal, just saying he did right by us. All 3 are happy, healthy and eating.