Beating a seemingly dead horse

This poor guy is wasting away at my local Petco. I've never seen so much skin just hanging on bones to the point it can fold over like near his bottom end. Humidity was 30% and temp was barely 80 and they probably wondering why it won't eat. I made some simple suggestions to the employee but I'm sure they can't just change the substrate even without permission. It just makes me furious that they can continue to improperly house animals that leads to their suffering but can you imagine how much news coverage this would have if it were an emaciated puppy?

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j2...804_101655.jpg

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Originally Posted by HannahLou

This poor guy is wasting away at my local Petco. I've never seen so much skin just hanging on bones to the point it can fold over like near his bottom end. Humidity was 30% and temp was barely 80 and they probably wondering why it won't eat. I made some simple suggestions to the employee but I'm sure they can't just change the substrate even without permission. It just makes me furious that they can continue to improperly house animals that leads to their suffering but can you imagine how much news coverage this would have if it were an emaciated puppy?

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j2...804_101655.jpg

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JEEZ and I thought my Ramen was in poor shape. That's atrocious, and Petsmart should be accountable for this.

Could you do something for him?
Buy it? Talk to the manager to give you a break on price since it's in such a bad shape...
It just brakes my heart to look at him.

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Originally Posted by shelpen

Could you do something for him?
Buy it? Talk to the manager to give you a break on price since it's in such a bad shape...
It just brakes my heart to look at him.

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It's all just supply and demand to them so I won't fool myself that I'd be "saving" it. Their manager wasn't in and the girl I spoke with was pretty understanding and agreed with me on changes but I'm sure nothing will happen besides this guy wasting away because Corp won't approve simple things like cypress to help a little with atleast the humidity issue. The poor guy was all the way at the front of the glass and totally exposed but probably too weak to search for a hiding spot. I feel like he looked worse in person some how. Just look a few inches up from his tail! That is nothing but bones and hanging skin. If anyone has easy access to suggestions on who to call that would be nice and hopefully I can try to get through to someone. Unfortunately I've seen other people on here try to help for similar cases and clearly their advice to corporate to change their husbandry practises falls on deaf ears.

You can contact corporate and complain: http://about.petco.com/contacts-and-policies

Be sure to give the store location.

You are right not to fool yourself into buying it, they have another one waiting to take its place. Best you can do is contact corporate.


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They do need to be reported. That is unacceptable

Where is this store if you don't mind me asking?


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It's the Bethel Park Petco outside of Pittsburgh. I don't stop in often but needed some dog stuff and clearly this guy has been neglected for quite some time. If he weren't totally deflated, I'd say he should be in the 150g range so he isn't a brand new hatchling that never ate, just one that probably stopped eating once at the store . They did have 2 other young bp in the tank that looked in much better shape. Atleast for now. I'll try to get online and send some emails or make calls when I have time this evening and anyone else is more than welcome to do the same. The employee tried to assure me they were all seen by a vet last week but I pointed out that obviously won't fix anything if their husbandry is still way off preventing it from eating and starting to recover. Ugh.

thats horrid!

i remember a Petco rep or employee (or fake) joined the forum briefly. she/he asked folks to email PTPsupport@petco.com. not sure if anything came out of it and obviously they haven't fixed their husbandry system wide. anyway here's one of the post from Petco - http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...=1#post2384913

That was a real person. I contacted them and have been working with the regional manager on care in the local stores here. Conditions were not bad, but things have improved none the less. There's always room.

Dave

That's sad I work at a pet store and I take care of the reptiles and the sand boa and pastel BP both eat every week.

TERRIBLE! I really have no idea how Petco structures its communication and accountability between regions and stores, but i would like to mention that my local Petco (Rt 9, Manalapan NJ, if anyone is local) always seems to be very adept with herp husbandry. I always notice the tanksare clean, have several thermo and hydrometers, and the BP's always live on coconut, which i have seen the employees change while i was there (and i don't even go all that often). When i talk to them about my boa, specifically the one or two guys who tend to stay in the reptile and fish section, they always have tips and information beyond the corporate spiel, like they actually know snakes. I'm not trying to advocate for big pet chains or anything, just thought that among the (well deserved) lambasting, this one Petco deserved a little credit.

Yes, of course, I understand about big chain pet store...
But we are talking about the animal here. Will you let him die?
Independently of the "supply-demand" issue. Because he will. And rather sooner than later.

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Originally Posted by shelpen

Yes, of course, I understand about big chain pet store...
But we are talking about the animal here. Will you let him die?
Independently of the "supply-demand" issue. Because he will. And rather sooner than later.

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No, I won't be guilted into feeling personally responsible for this animals life and pay $90 for it. The fact that so many other people and employees have seen and walked past it in this condition is disturbing to me. I've sent several emails and finally went through Facebook to get a pretty quick response. I've offered to try to save the snake myself if they don't have the time or knowledge to do so and even offered to help correct their husbandry for future animals so we'll see. The last Facebook message I received claims they were escalating the case to someone local and would be calling me soon. Even if I can save this snake, it shouldn't have come to this point. They need a whole system change in their habitat standards.

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Originally Posted by HannahLou

They need a whole system change in their habitat standards.

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When it comes to retail stores like this, their habitat standards are perfectly fine for their intended purpose - short-term display housing. It's not the husbandry that needs changing - it's the employee training that is the opportunity here.

I know there are plenty of knowledgeable, caring individuals within the big retail chains, so I'm sure it will get the help it needs. It's just a shame that it had to get to this point for that to happen.

I saw a hatchling in a local pet store a couple weeks ago in similarly awful conditions. Thin as a rail and having a horrible shed. I told the guy in the store to increase the humidity. I was tempted to buy the poor thing, but I wouldn't be able to house it once it got bigger.

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Originally Posted by Eric Alan

When it comes to retail stores like this, their habitat standards are perfectly fine for their intended purpose - short-term display housing. It's not the husbandry that needs changing - it's the employee training that is the opportunity here.

I know there are plenty of knowledgeable, caring individuals within the big retail chains, so I'm sure it will get the help it needs. It's just a shame that it had to get to this point for that to happen.

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I can understand their setups being more exposing for the intent to sell but the lack of humidity and heat are never ok. It's not like at a show where the animals are only in a display case for the day and then if not sold go back into a comfy rack. It seems like they frequently take weeks to sell or in the case of this guy, months of stress and not eating. I'm not saying all Petcos or shops are horrible but this guy is beyond just a little thin and nothing was changed to help him out.

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Originally Posted by HannahLou

I can understand their setups being more exposing for the intent to sell but the lack of humidity and heat are never ok.

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You do know that the temperature gauge you are looking at is ambient temperatures AND there are regulated heat mats under the enclosures right?

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

You do know that the temperature gauge you are looking at is ambient temperatures AND there are regulated heat mats under the enclosures right?

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Yes, I didn't think they had no source of heat. Again, it's just the disgust that this animal is in such horrible shape and still out on the sales floor being housed with multiple snakes like nothing is wrong instead of alone in a smaller, quiet place where it has a better chance at starting to eat again. Maybe it has nothing to due with poor husbandry and has a parasite or genetic problem causing it's decline but either way it shouldn't be on the sales floor and it didn't get that bad in just a few days or weeks.

Just pointing you into the correct direction to complain about.
I agree that the animal isnt in the best of shape.

The store manager called me yesterday. She claims they were taking all of the snakes to see a vet today. While that's nice, I pointed out how the best thing for that little guy is a dark quiet place alone until he starts eating and not necessarily being handled by a vet. She said he's been placed by himself instead of the tank with other BP. So hopefully they can follow through and get him to start eating. I still just can't believe it took me bringing it to everyone's attention how emaciated he is before they decided to take more steps towards helping him.

Please notify petco corporate offices and tell them, and inform them if you don't see changes you will call animal control for that area. All petcos are only as good as the managers that run the store. My daughter works for petco and said the fastest way to get results is to notify corporate since as a customer, and a witness to the bad conditions, have more leverage with them, and don't hesitate to call animal control about this matter. No one can intercede for this poor animal but you, since you saw it you have all the credibility. If there is a local reptile club, see if you can get them involved, at least if you don't consider yourself an expert, they will have one, and that will increase the pressure. Good luck, hope you can save this poor guy, but don't buy him, it greaves me to say but that just perpetuates the abuse, I know it sounds cruel, but they should not be selling reptiles if they can't care for them properly.

I know that another BP may end up in the same place / shape as that one, but I would have bought him personally... it all reminds me of a saying; A boy was walking along the beach tossing starfish back into the sea and an old man asked him why he was doing such a silly thing as there were way too many starfish and besides the boy couldn't possibly save them all, what difference would it make? The boy looked at the man and tossed another one back into the sea and said I made a difference for that one. - My point is we cannot possibly save them all, but just saving one really does truly make an impact on their life.

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Originally Posted by Kristaok

I know that another BP may end up in the same place / shape as that one, but I would have bought him personally...

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I would not. If you buy a sick, starving normal baby ball python for $90 there is no incentive for the retailer to change its husbandry practices; in fact, you have rewarded that business for neglecting the animal.

That's also a slap in the face to the breeders selling healthy, well-established critters at half the price.

Well the healthy pythons don't need saving, and I am sorry saving a python from starvation for $90 is a slap in the face to breeders but I care more about the animal that needs help than I do hurting a breeders feelings. $90 is nothing to me, I could careless about the price, my only concerns are helping animals any and all kinds. So I could understand some would not buy that animal, but again I would and that's just me and my nature.

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Originally Posted by Kristaok

Well the healthy pythons don't need saving, and I am sorry saving a python from starvation for $90 is a slap in the face to breeders but I care more about the animal that needs help than I do hurting a breeders feelings. $90 is nothing to me, I could careless about the price, my only concerns are helping animals any and all kinds. So I could understand some would not buy that animal, but again I would and that's just me and my nature.

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So, save that one just for another one to take its place and deteriorate just like this one? Not a smart idea. By leaving that snake you are preventing even more from being brought in and kept in the same conditions, which is making a bigger difference to a larger number of BPs.

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Originally Posted by blue roses

Please notify petco corporate offices and tell them, and inform them if you don't see changes you will call animal control for that area. All petcos are only as good as the managers that run the store. My daughter works for petco and said the fastest way to get results is to notify corporate since as a customer, and a witness to the bad conditions, have more leverage with them, and don't hesitate to call animal control about this matter. No one can intercede for this poor animal but you, since you saw it you have all the credibility. If there is a local reptile club, see if you can get them involved, at least if you don't consider yourself an expert, they will have one, and that will increase the pressure. Good luck, hope you can save this poor guy, but don't buy him, it greaves me to say but that just perpetuates the abuse, I know it sounds cruel, but they should not be selling reptiles if they can't care for them properly.

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Corporate is aware since I had sent emails to the 3 different addresses I could find. I didn't get any responses until I decided to post on their Facebook site and make it public, along with my own page which various animal loving friends shared too. The manager that I spoke with said if I wanted that they'd keep me updated on him but really it's not like I'd believe them if they called a few days later to say he ate finally though I hope that's the case. Even if this poor guy doesn't make it, hopefully they'll start paying attention to future animals more closely and not let them waste away to this point before realizing they should be pulled and kept alone under different circumstances instead of on the sales floor until they gain weight. Being that they pulled all of their snakes after my public posts, I'm sure my calling them out made them want to avoid other people checking out their reptiles about being able to criticize them.

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Originally Posted by Fraido

So, save that one just for another one to take its place and deteriorate just like this one? Not a smart idea. By leaving that snake you are preventing even more from being brought in and kept in the same conditions, which is making a bigger difference to a larger number of BPs.

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Yup, sadly he's better off being a martyr for their future BPs. I did offer to take him to get him back on track but I guess it just shows they don't really care besides doing some damage control since I made it public but still want to make money off of him.

Sometimes they will allow you to take a sick animal for rescue, especially if you remind them of their 14 day policy should the animal die. It is so heartbreaking to see this.

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