I have mites on my snakes HELP!!

I noticed a few black spots on my snakes a couple weeks ago, noticed that some were soaking, and today I saw a couple black bugs crawling across my snake! Looks like mites to me, just like this photo below (I didn't take this photo but this is what they look like).

So I have a few questions, I have 17 snakes in an ARS rack with 20 tubs. I see it on several snakes but not all, I have ball pythons and king snakes and a Woma python in the rack, looks like it's on at least a few ball pythons, didn't notice it on one of my black and white CA king snake...

• What kind of medication should I use? Are some better than others?

• Is there any risk to my snakes with the medication?

• I currently have aspen bedding, should I change it to something else during treatment?

• How long does it take to treat? Do you need to do several treatments?

• Do I have to soak my snakes in medication or spray it on or spray it on the bedding?

• Should I treat every snake even though I don't see mites in that tub?

• I also have mice and rats in that room as well, can they catch the same kind of mites?

I feel like I'm a bit over my head...


http://www.tomsbirdfeeders.com/asset...ze-300x200.jpg

Use provent a mite, you will have to treat all snakes. I would switch to paper towels in the mean time but isn't necessary. You will need to take each tub out of the rack and room while treating and take snake and water bowl out and spray with prevent a mite and wait at least a half hour for it to air out before putting snake and water back in and then put tubs back and grab some more and do the same thing. Make sure you follow the instructions exactly and let air out properly before putting snake and water back in, the vapors can be very harmful and is why you need to make sure you treat each tub out of the rack so the vapors don't travel to the other snakes. Just use it correctly, it's the best product for mites. I also you natural chemistry reptile spray which is used to put on your snake, I just spray on a paper towel and run snake through a few times and then let snake sit for 10 minutes than soak in water for another 10. Reason you want to soak the snake in water after is bc the reptile spray dehydrates the mites so you want to make sure the snake is hydrated after the treatment. The provent a mite is for in the tub and the natural chemistry reptile spray is for on the snake.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

Or you could use Natural Chemistrys Reptile Spray that is safe to use on your snakes.
There is no need to ad extra stress soaking your snake either.
You will want to put everyone on paper towels and clean EVERYTHING.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

Or you could use Natural Chemistrys Reptile Spray that is safe to use on your snakes.
There is no need to ad extra stress soaking your snake either.
You will want to put everyone on paper towels and clean EVERYTHING.

---

OK, I'm going to try this Natural Chemistry Reptile Relief Spray, just bought a gallon of it. It has a five star review on Amazon with no one or two star reviews. We will see how things go! If that doesn't work I may do a combo of the one above too.

Remember to clean your rack too, not just the tubs. :gj:

I also sweep the floor and such. I repeat treatment every week for a month for the natural chemistry and I also use provent a mite for 2 months. Probably don't need a 2 month treatment but I like to make sure that they are gone. I haven't had any in a few months since ending treatment so I hope it stays that way. Idk if the gallon jug comes with a spray bottle, if not I would pick one up.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

Provent-O-Mite is the only product I use and I use it every month.

Mites go through a stage called the nymph stage and at that point the nymphs are so small that they can become air born. This means that no matter how good your husbandry is unless you're treating proactively rather than reactively you will most likely have a repeat problem. You not only want to kill the mites, but you also want to kill the eggs, as far as I know Provent-O-Mite is the only product that will kill the eggs. If you use Provent-O-Mite once a month you will stop the life cycle. I have about 200 ball pythons in my collection and in the last 12 years I have found 3 mites and I'm always hunting for them.

If you're not stopping the life cycle you will most likely continue having a mite problem.

If you need more information on how I use Provent-O-Mite give me a call at 408-981-6694 and I'll help any way I can.

Brian Gundy

Since you have a full-on infestation:
http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...it-with-AaronP

Until you get the mites under control absolutely nothing should leave or be brought into your collection.

You should also re-evaluate your quarantine practices to ensure that when you do bring in new snakes, if they have mites then they are treated and contained so you don't end up with a full-on outbreak.

Brian..... Why treat monthly or are you talking about your QT racks?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

Brian..... Why treat monthly or are you talking about your QT racks?

---

I'm sorry, I don't know what QT racks are.

The best way to deal with mites is proactively not reactively. If you proactively treat against mites on a month to month basis you will kill the life cycle of the mite.

I went to a seminar 25 years ago specifically about reptile mites given by Dave Barker who along with his wife Tracy have masters degrees in herpetology and are the owners of the world renowned VPI Reptiles, is an author of many reptile related journals and who has also written several books on snakes mainly boids (pythons and boas). The one thing that he kept repeating during the seminar was that there was nothing we could do as far as husbandry to prevent getting mites and there was nothing on the market at the time that would kill the mite eggs other than Provent-O-Mite and Black Night (another product that used to be on the market). After he told us about the nymph stage he mentioned that unless we were proactively treating our collection with Provent-O-Mite it would only be a matter of time before we would find mites on our snakes. He also told us that correct husbandry was no defense against them. The one thing that he kept repeating was that if nymphs are floating around in the air then mites are a constant threat. During that seminar he mentioned that mites are in the arachnid family and conveyed to us that if we ever saw spiders or any other insect any where near our collection that we probably had mites.

What most people don't realize is that mites are what's called an intermediate host for other internal parasites like whip worms and hook worms which can eventually kill our snakes.

I'm a snake hunter, I go out into the field at least once a week and catch and release wild snakes, you may have seen some of my videos on YouTube where I'm holding the snakes I've caught. I do about 300 educational reptile presentations per year in the San Francisco Bay Area. In the last 8 years I've had over 50,000 people touch and handle my snakes. I can't think of anyone that puts their reptiles at more risk of getting mites than I do and at the end of the day my collection is mite free, why is that? I don't know what else to say other than in my opinion and Dave Barker's opinion if your not using Provent-O-Mite as a preventative proactive solution then you're eventually going to have mites. You're assuming that because the reptiles at work have mites that is the reason you have mites, I'm not so sure. My guess is that you've had mites for a awhile and you just didn't know it. In my opinion using Pam, sweeping floors, cleaning cages or using any other technique or product is only putting a band aid on the issue.

So if you or anyone else that is reading this wants help with this issue just call me at 408-981-6694.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Brian Gundy

QT = quarantine. I treat all snakes in QT as if they have mites until proven otherwise.

Also I wrote this up after my last battle with the little so-and-so's since there are a lot of tools in the "make all of the mites die" toolbox.

Mite Eradication 101:

*** Permethrin ***
Permethrin comes in many forms - Provent-A-Mite (PAM), NIX/RID head lice treatment, Permethrin-10 from a livestock supply store, etc. Once mixed with water its half life is 30 days if kept out of direct sunlight.

PAM has several advantages. It has been tested for use with reptiles, and it comes ready to use. The disadvantages are that it's expensive and most reptile stores don't have it in stock, so you have to wait for it to be shipped to you if you don't have any on hand. Meanwhile the mites are busy feeding and breeding.

NIX/RID is cheaper than PAM and is readily available at WalMart, CVS, and other drug stores. It is also easy to dilute: mix one two ounce (59 ml) bottle of the cream rinse with one gallon of water.

At a dollar per ounce Permethrin-10 is the cheapest of the three options; one eight ounce bottle will make 240 gallons of solution, as only 6 milliliters of it are needed per gallon of water to make an effective mite spray. The upside is that if you have a lot of snakes to treat this will do it very economically. The downside is that it's all too easy to make too strong of a permethrin solution which can seriously injure or kill your snakes.

No matter which product you use, it must be used correctly. I've never applied any permethrin product directly onto my snakes as it's not needed for mite treatment, and permethrin poisoning in a snake can cause irreversible neurological damage or death.

Permethrin use: spray the enclosure, paper substrate, and hides with the diluted solution or PAM. DO NOT SPRAY THE WATER BOWL. Allow everything to dry completely before returning your snake to its home. Also keep a supply of treated and dried newspaper or paper towels and treated hides available so that when a snake makes a mess, you replace the soiled paper and hides with treated ones. Treat the enclosure every two to three weeks.

*** Reptile Spray ***

Reptile Spray kills mites on contact while wet, once it dries it loses its effectiveness pretty quickly. Reptile Spray is a solution of salts rather than an insecticide; it kills mites by dehydrating them. I don't spray the snakes as more ends up on the floor than on the snake. Instead, I spray a white paper towel with it and wipe it on the snake. That way you get even coverage on the snake, you can work it into the area under their chin really well as that's a favorite hiding place for mites, you don't stress out your snake, and you can look for mites on the paper towel to see how quickly they're being eradicated. Apply twice a week. Note - this stuff hurts like the blazes in an open wound.

*** Hot Shot No-Pest Strips ***

Some people take a Hot Shot No-Pest strip, cut it into pieces, put each piece into a small sealed container, poke some holes in the container, and put each container into the snake's enclosure. I've used the No-Pest strip but I just hang it in the snake room and close the door. Either way is effective, especially if you have a major outbreak.

If you do use it, remove the water bowls as the insecticide is strongly attracted to water and you don't want the snake drinking it. After 24 hours remove the strip (or pieces), put them into an airtight container for future use, air out the room, and put the water bowls back. Repeat treatment weekly.

Important! If you also keep tarantulas, feeder roaches/dubias, crickets, etc. do not use the No-Pest Strip as it can kill them too!!!!

*** Mild Dish Soap ***

One or two drops of mild dish detergent in your snake's bath water will break the surface tension and prevent mites from floating in the water so they drown. No more than that is needed, your snake should not look like it is taking a bubble bath.

*** Heat ***

Don't laugh, but a temperature of 135*F for five seconds will kill mites and the eggs. I purchased a heat gun used for stripping paint that can be set to blow hot air from 180*F through 1200*F. Using the heat gun and a temperature gun I heated the surfaces and crevices of my racks and enclosures to kill off any mite eggs that may have been laid outside the tubs. Don't get your enclosure surfaces and joined/glued areas too hot or you can damage them.

Mite treatment should continue for 30 days after you stop finding mites on your snake, as an egg can take that long to hatch.

*** FINAL NOTE ***

Effective quarantine means that you treat every new arrival as if it has mites, and new snakes are kept as far away from your established collection as possible for at least 90 days. I treat the quarantine enclosure, hides, and paper with permethrin a day or so before the new snake arrives, and I wipe it with a paper towel soaked in Reptile Spray as part of my inspection process when it comes out of the shipping box. If it has mites I will know it within a day or two at most. This also goes for snakes from "trusted" sources, my first mite outbreak ever came from someone I trusted.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bcr229

QT = quarantine. I treat all snakes in QT as if they have mites until proven otherwise.

Also I wrote this up after my last battle with the little so-and-so's since there are a lot of tools in the "make all of the mites die" toolbox.

Mite Eradication 101:

*** Permethrin ***
Permethrin comes in many forms - Provent-A-Mite (PAM), NIX/RID head lice treatment, Permethrin-10 from a livestock supply store, etc. Once mixed with water its half life is 30 days if kept out of direct sunlight.

PAM has several advantages. It has been tested for use with reptiles, and it comes ready to use. The disadvantages are that it's expensive and most reptile stores don't have it in stock, so you have to wait for it to be shipped to you if you don't have any on hand. Meanwhile the mites are busy feeding and breeding.

NIX/RID is cheaper than PAM and is readily available at WalMart, CVS, and other drug stores. It is also easy to dilute: mix one two ounce (59 ml) bottle of the cream rinse with one gallon of water.

At a dollar per ounce Permethrin-10 is the cheapest of the three options; one eight ounce bottle will make 240 gallons of solution, as only 6 milliliters of it are needed per gallon of water to make an effective mite spray. The upside is that if you have a lot of snakes to treat this will do it very economically. The downside is that it's all too easy to make too strong of a permethrin solution which can seriously injure or kill your snakes.

No matter which product you use, it must be used correctly. I've never applied any permethrin product directly onto my snakes as it's not needed for mite treatment, and permethrin poisoning in a snake can cause irreversible neurological damage or death.

Permethrin use: spray the enclosure, paper substrate, and hides with the diluted solution or PAM. DO NOT SPRAY THE WATER BOWL. Allow everything to dry completely before returning your snake to its home. Also keep a supply of treated and dried newspaper or paper towels and treated hides available so that when a snake makes a mess, you replace the soiled paper and hides with treated ones. Treat the enclosure every two to three weeks.

*** Reptile Spray ***

Reptile Spray kills mites on contact while wet, once it dries it loses its effectiveness pretty quickly. Reptile Spray is a solution of salts rather than an insecticide; it kills mites by dehydrating them. I don't spray the snakes as more ends up on the floor than on the snake. Instead, I spray a white paper towel with it and wipe it on the snake. That way you get even coverage on the snake, you can work it into the area under their chin really well as that's a favorite hiding place for mites, you don't stress out your snake, and you can look for mites on the paper towel to see how quickly they're being eradicated. Apply twice a week. Note - this stuff hurts like the blazes in an open wound.

*** Hot Shot No-Pest Strips ***

Some people take a Hot Shot No-Pest strip, cut it into pieces, put each piece into a small sealed container, poke some holes in the container, and put each container into the snake's enclosure. I've used the No-Pest strip but I just hang it in the snake room and close the door. Either way is effective, especially if you have a major outbreak.

If you do use it, remove the water bowls as the insecticide is strongly attracted to water and you don't want the snake drinking it. After 24 hours remove the strip (or pieces), put them into an airtight container for future use, air out the room, and put the water bowls back. Repeat treatment weekly.

Important! If you also keep tarantulas, feeder roaches/dubias, crickets, etc. do not use the No-Pest Strip as it can kill them too!!!!

*** Mild Dish Soap ***

One or two drops of mild dish detergent in your snake's bath water will break the surface tension and prevent mites from floating in the water so they drown. No more than that is needed, your snake should not look like it is taking a bubble bath.

*** Heat ***

Don't laugh, but a temperature of 135*F for five seconds will kill mites and the eggs. I purchased a heat gun used for stripping paint that can be set to blow hot air from 180*F through 1200*F. Using the heat gun and a temperature gun I heated the surfaces and crevices of my racks and enclosures to kill off any mite eggs that may have been laid outside the tubs. Don't get your enclosure surfaces and joined/glued areas too hot or you can damage them.

Mite treatment should continue for 30 days after you stop finding mites on your snake, as an egg can take that long to hatch.

*** FINAL NOTE ***

Effective quarantine means that you treat every new arrival as if it has mites, and new snakes are kept as far away from your established collection as possible for at least 90 days. I treat the quarantine enclosure, hides, and paper with permethrin a day or so before the new snake arrives, and I wipe it with a paper towel soaked in Reptile Spray as part of my inspection process when it comes out of the shipping box. If it has mites I will know it within a day or two at most. This also goes for snakes from "trusted" sources, my first mite outbreak ever came from someone I trusted.

---

WOW! Great information, thanks for sharing it with us.

Brian Gundy

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by For Goodness Snakes

I'm sorry, I don't know what QT racks are.

---

Not trying to bash on you but there is no way in hell I would risk my animals by introducing others without being quarantined, especially wild caught!!
The Barkers...... I do know them they are about a 45 minute drive from me.;)

I have had mites in my collection once after visiting an expo. Sadly I didn't even purchase any animals but I did handle several.
It took a while to get rid of them but Natures Chemistry did the trick and I have never had or seen them again in my snake room and have never had to re-treat either.
I do treat every animal I purchase that goes into a quarantine rack that is a different room of the house. I have also helped people with RI and mite cases here locally.

To each their own I guess but they are not that hard to avoid with proper protocol.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

Not trying to bash on you but there is no way in hell I would risk my animals by introducing others without being quarantined, especially wild caught!!
The Barkers...... I do know them they are about a 45 minute drive from me.;)

I have had mites in my collection once after visiting an expo. Sadly I didn't even purchase any animals but I did handle several.
It took a while to get rid of them but Natures Chemistry did the trick and I have never had or seen them again in my snake room and have never had to re-treat either.
I do treat every animal I purchase that goes into a quarantine rack that is a different room of the house. I have also helped people with RI and mite cases here locally.

To each their own I guess but they are not that hard to avoid with proper protocol.

---

I think you are taking things out of context. I never said that I don't quarantine, and I never said that I introduce wild snakes into my collection. I've been working with exotics for over 45 years and more specifically snakes for over 55 years. As a certified California State Animal Health Technician for 9 years I worked at the largest # 1 rated exotic animal hospital in California where I eventually was promoted to Director of that hospital. I have over 500 videos, just under 10,000 subscribers and just under 2 million hits on YouTube, many of my videos are focused on educating those in the herp community that are searching for help. I have dedicated my life to helping those with less experience in the herp community. I've produced and sold over 5,000 snakes with out a single complaint. Not only is this my passion, but this is what I do for a living. I don't mean to bash you, but what do you do for a living?



Brian Gundy / For Goodness Snakes

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by For Goodness Snakes

I think you are taking things out of context. I never said that I don't quarantine, and I never said that I introduce wild snakes into my collection. I've been working with exotics for over 45 years and more specifically snakes for over 55 years. As a certified California State Animal Health Technician for 9 years I worked at the largest # 1 rated exotic animal hospital in California where I eventually was promoted to Director of that hospital. I have over 500 videos, just under 10,000 subscribers and just under 2 million hits on YouTube, many of my videos are focused on educating those in the herp community that are searching for help. I have dedicated my life to helping those with less experience in the herp community. I've produced and sold over 5,000 snakes with out a single complaint. Not only is this my passion, but this is what I do for a living. I don't mean to bash you, but what do you do for a living?

---

I only took what you typed into context. You said you treat for mites monthly and I don't understand why unless the collection is compromised.
Your resume is yours and I am glad you are happy and proud of yourself. You don't need to try ad convince me of that. LMIAO

What do I currently do? I build trophies in a company that ships all over the world. We build most of every trophy you see on every sports show you see on tv.
Why? To lower my stress level from dealing with stupid people.
What is my original background? Auto mechanic or anything that runs on petrol. The only thing I wont do is rebuild transmissions because they don't interest me.
What are my other two personal businesses? Firearms, CCW holsters and breeding Ball Pythons. ;)
I also have way too many hobbies to list on this dating episode but I am good with my hands. :gj:

Well I have to admit that this is my first year with a snake collection, I watched hundreds if not thousands of YouTube videos, went out and bought an ARS snake rack and loaded up with 17 snakes so far. I didn't quarantine and didn't know about mites or anything else, didn't even really have an established collection to protect, until now... Just jumped in the deep end and I'm learning as I go!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cchardwick

Just jumped in the deep end and I'm learning as I go!

---

We are here to help.
Be glad its just mites. ;)

Provent-a-mite works wonders and is the only product I will use. I know other methods can and do work but that is what works for me and is the least amount of hassle (imo). A side note, sometimes in the summer, it's good to use around doorways and windows, it keeps other nasties out as well (spiders!).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

Not trying to bash on you but there is no way in hell I would risk my animals by introducing others without being quarantined, especially wild caught!!

---

Pretty sure Brian just didn't know what you meant when you said QT (that it meant quarantine)? at least that's what it appeared from my perspective. :oops:

What else can snakes get that can go through a rack system?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cchardwick

What else can snakes get that can go through a rack system?

---

Bacterial respiratory infections, viral infections, and cryptosporidia, especially if you don't wash your hands well between handling each critter.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

I only took what you typed into context. You said you treat for mites monthly and I don't understand why unless the collection is compromised.
Your resume is yours and I am glad you are happy and proud of yourself. You don't need to try ad convince me of that. LMIAO

What do I currently do? I build trophies in a company that ships all over the world. We build most of every trophy you see on every sports show you see on tv.
Why? To lower my stress level from dealing with stupid people.
What is my original background? Auto mechanic or anything that runs on petrol. The only thing I wont do is rebuild transmissions because they don't interest me.
What are my other two personal businesses? Firearms, CCW holsters and breeding Ball Pythons. ;)
I also have way too many hobbies to list on this dating episode but I am good with my hands. :gj:

---

Just because you don't understand doesn't mean it's wrong.

Like I mentioned in my post I PROACTIVELY TREAT FOR MITES, I DON"T WANT TO REACTIVELY TREAT FOR MITES because I know that nymphs (Based On Dave's Research) are floating around in the air. If they are floating around in the air all of our collections are constantly at risk or as you say compromised, that's what I'm trying to help you guys understand. If we don't continuously kill the life cycle of the mite then in Dave's opinion it is just a matter of time before our animals are exposed. This is what I was taught many years ago by one of the world's leading experts in our community, why wouldn't I want to share that information with the rest of the herp community.

Yes I am very proud of what I do and all of the tens of thousands of people that I have helped through the years, and now that includes you.

When I asked what QT racks means it's because I had never seen that acronym before and didn't have a clue what it stood for no more than I know what LAIMO stands for.

Brian

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bcr229

*** Reptile Spray ***

Reptile Spray kills mites on contact while wet, once it dries it loses its effectiveness pretty quickly. Reptile Spray is a solution of salts rather than an insecticide; it kills mites by dehydrating them. I don't spray the snakes as more ends up on the floor than on the snake. Instead, I spray a white paper towel with it and wipe it on the snake. That way you get even coverage on the snake, you can work it into the area under their chin really well as that's a favorite hiding place for mites, you don't stress out your snake, and you can look for mites on the paper towel to see how quickly they're being eradicated. Apply twice a week. Note - this stuff hurts like the blazes in an open wound.

---

I had a question about the reptile spray, somewhat specifically for you since I saw that you use it. I only have one snake, and I don't plan on getting anymore anytime soon. But as a precaution would using the reptile spray on cypress substrate (letting it dry out before putting it into the enclosure) as often as once a month be okay? I wouldn't use it on the snake itself until I see mites on it of course as you said its salt based and would dry the snake out. But it seems that treating the bedding before adding it into the enclosure would seem like a safe bet to prevent mites in the future.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Holly_Berry

I had a question about the reptile spray, somewhat specifically for you since I saw that you use it. I only have one snake, and I don't plan on getting anymore anytime soon. But as a precaution would using the reptile spray on cypress substrate (letting it dry out before putting it into the enclosure) as often as once a month be okay? I wouldn't use it on the snake itself until I see mites on it of course as you said its salt based and would dry the snake out. But it seems that treating the bedding before adding it into the enclosure would seem like a safe bet to prevent mites in the future.

---

That would be a waste of the product as it's only effective when wet and it doesn't kill mite eggs. A far more economical and effective treatment if you are worried about substrate being contaminated with mites and/or eggs is to spread some in a baking pan and put it into the oven at 150*F for an hour.

Here's an update on my mites: I had a MAJOR infestation! Last week I didn't know what a mite was, this week I'm in shock that I had so many mites on my poor snakes. I have mostly pied combos and a lot of white on my snakes, they were all turning black and white, like they were sprinkled in pepper. Didn't seem like mites to me since I couldn't really see a bug crawling around.

So last night about midnight after a long day I decided to try my new Natural Chemistry Reptile Relief Spray and go through my rack and treat my snakes. I dumped all the bedding, sprayed down the tubs with reptile spray and wiped them dry, then put several layers of paper towels down and changed out the Dixie cup water dishes.

To treat the snakes I pretty much soaked a paper towel with reptile spray, picked up the snakes and let them crawl through the paper towel several times. Out of 17 snakes I removed mites from 16 of them, couldn't even see the mites on most snakes until I wiped them off. I was shocked that it had traveled through my whole rack system.

Some of the ball pythons that had it the worst were soaking in their water dishes, you could see dozens of mites at the bottom of their water bowls.

The very worst snake was my 'Fire Pied' male, looks like he never soaked in the water at all and was covered with black and red spots. I wiped him down and very few came off, so I put him back in the tub with paper towels. About a half hour later I opened up his tub and all the mites had crawled out of his scales and were crawling all over him, it was really creepy! So I wiped him down a second time and this time I wiped off hundreds of mites! And it's true, you only kill them with Reptile Relief when they are in direct contact with the wet solution, or so it seems. They pretty much die instantly if they hit the wet paper towel and are not in the scales of a snake.

So after treating all my snakes until 1:30 AM I hit the sack, woke up early and about 6 AM opened up the Fire Pied tub and found hundreds of dead mites on the paper towels all through the tub and about a dozen more climbing all over him! So I sprayed him a third time! The directions say to only spray once every three days but this seemed like an extreme exception. I also totally cleaned that tub and replaced all the paper towels and sprayed it down with reptile relief spray and wiped it dry before adding new paper towels.

Well I came home from work today and it's been about 18 hours since I first sprayed the Fire Pied and he still had a couple mites crawling on him! However, he is bright white and looks fantastic, no black or red spots, he looks amazing. I simply wiped off the few mites he had with a dry paper towel and put his tail in his water bowl to soak a bit LOL. I also opened up a few of my other tubs and saw a few mites here and there on the paper towels. Looks like I hit the bulk of the infestation but have a way to go before I'm mite free.

I also had a very young 'pastel spider pied' that only had about six meals in his whole life, very young. He started shedding as soon as I wiped him with the reptile spray, that kind of freaked me out so I piled a few paper towels on him and wetted them with water to keep him hydrated, hopefully I won't run into problems that that little guy!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cchardwick

Here's an update on my mites: I had a MAJOR infestation! Last week I didn't know what a mite was, this week I'm in shock that I had so many mites on my poor snakes. I have mostly pied combos and a lot of white on my snakes, they were all turning black and white, like they were sprinkled in pepper. Didn't seem like mites to me since I couldn't really see a bug crawling around.

So last night about midnight after a long day I decided to try my new Natural Chemistry Reptile Relief Spray and go through my rack and treat my snakes. I dumped all the bedding, sprayed down the tubs with reptile spray and wiped them dry, then put several layers of paper towels down and changed out the Dixie cup water dishes.

To treat the snakes I pretty much soaked a paper towel with reptile spray, picked up the snakes and let them crawl through the paper towel several times. Out of 17 snakes I removed mites from 16 of them, couldn't even see the mites on most snakes until I wiped them off. I was shocked that it had traveled through my whole rack system.

Some of the ball pythons that had it the worst were soaking in their water dishes, you could see dozens of mites at the bottom of their water bowls.

The very worst snake was my 'Fire Pied' male, looks like he never soaked in the water at all and was covered with black and red spots. I wiped him down and very few came off, so I put him back in the tub with paper towels. About a half hour later I opened up his tub and all the mites had crawled out of his scales and were crawling all over him, it was really creepy! So I wiped him down a second time and this time I wiped off hundreds of mites! And it's true, you only kill them with Reptile Relief when they are in direct contact with the wet solution, or so it seems. They pretty much die instantly if they hit the wet paper towel and are not in the scales of a snake.

So after treating all my snakes until 1:30 AM I hit the sack, woke up early and about 6 AM opened up the Fire Pied tub and found hundreds of dead mites on the paper towels all through the tub and about a dozen more climbing all over him! So I sprayed him a third time! The directions say to only spray once every three days but this seemed like an extreme exception. I also totally cleaned that tub and replaced all the paper towels and sprayed it down with reptile relief spray and wiped it dry before adding new paper towels.

Well I came home from work today and it's been about 18 hours since I first sprayed the Fire Pied and he still had a couple mites crawling on him! However, he is bright white and looks fantastic, no black or red spots, he looks amazing. I simply wiped off the few mites he had with a dry paper towel and put his tail in his water bowl to soak a bit LOL. I also opened up a few of my other tubs and saw a few mites here and there on the paper towels. Looks like I hit the bulk of the infestation but have a way to go before I'm mite free.

I also had a very young 'pastel spider pied' that only had about six meals in his whole life, very young. He started shedding as soon as I wiped him with the reptile spray, that kind of freaked me out so I piled a few paper towels on him and wetted them with water to keep him hydrated, hopefully I won't run into problems that that little guy!

---

I look forward to hearing from you.

Brian Gundy
For Goodness Snakes
408-981-6694

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cchardwick

Here's an update on my mites: I had a MAJOR infestation! Last week I didn't know what a mite was, this week I'm in shock that I had so many mites on my poor snakes. I have mostly pied combos and a lot of white on my snakes, they were all turning black and white, like they were sprinkled in pepper. Didn't seem like mites to me since I couldn't really see a bug crawling around.

So last night about midnight after a long day I decided to try my new Natural Chemistry Reptile Relief Spray and go through my rack and treat my snakes. I dumped all the bedding, sprayed down the tubs with reptile spray and wiped them dry, then put several layers of paper towels down and changed out the Dixie cup water dishes.

To treat the snakes I pretty much soaked a paper towel with reptile spray, picked up the snakes and let them crawl through the paper towel several times. Out of 17 snakes I removed mites from 16 of them, couldn't even see the mites on most snakes until I wiped them off. I was shocked that it had traveled through my whole rack system.

Some of the ball pythons that had it the worst were soaking in their water dishes, you could see dozens of mites at the bottom of their water bowls.

The very worst snake was my 'Fire Pied' male, looks like he never soaked in the water at all and was covered with black and red spots. I wiped him down and very few came off, so I put him back in the tub with paper towels. About a half hour later I opened up his tub and all the mites had crawled out of his scales and were crawling all over him, it was really creepy! So I wiped him down a second time and this time I wiped off hundreds of mites! And it's true, you only kill them with Reptile Relief when they are in direct contact with the wet solution, or so it seems. They pretty much die instantly if they hit the wet paper towel and are not in the scales of a snake.

So after treating all my snakes until 1:30 AM I hit the sack, woke up early and about 6 AM opened up the Fire Pied tub and found hundreds of dead mites on the paper towels all through the tub and about a dozen more climbing all over him! So I sprayed him a third time! The directions say to only spray once every three days but this seemed like an extreme exception. I also totally cleaned that tub and replaced all the paper towels and sprayed it down with reptile relief spray and wiped it dry before adding new paper towels.

Well I came home from work today and it's been about 18 hours since I first sprayed the Fire Pied and he still had a couple mites crawling on him! However, he is bright white and looks fantastic, no black or red spots, he looks amazing. I simply wiped off the few mites he had with a dry paper towel and put his tail in his water bowl to soak a bit LOL. I also opened up a few of my other tubs and saw a few mites here and there on the paper towels. Looks like I hit the bulk of the infestation but have a way to go before I'm mite free.

I also had a very young 'pastel spider pied' that only had about six meals in his whole life, very young. He started shedding as soon as I wiped him with the reptile spray, that kind of freaked me out so I piled a few paper towels on him and wetted them with water to keep him hydrated, hopefully I won't run into problems that that little guy!

---

Be patient and diligent! Sounds like a major infestation and it may take several weeks of treatment and constant cleaning to finally break the life cycle. As Brian mentioned, the BEST way to prevent mites in a collection is being proactive and taking action (action is always better than reaction). I know there are many products on the market, but personally I use Provent-A-Mite. I spray the sides of my racks, the floor around the racks and the area at the entrance of my room usually on a biweekly to monthly basis. Because of the nature of my career, I'm handle many different reptiles in the clinic and visit many facilities- so the chances of bringing home ectoparasites is much higher. Most hobbyist don't think about it, but when you visit a show or a petstore that has mites you can potentially track eggs/nymphs on your hands, clothes, and shoes back into your car and directly into your home/herp room. I routinely spray Provent-A-Mite on the bottom of my shoes, switch shoes when I enter the house and as previously mentioned take proactive measures to prevent mites.

Good luck and I hope you defeat those pesty mites!

Here is a good link by the Barkers on mite lifecycle: http://vpi.com/publications/the_life...of_snake_mites

I might give that Provent a mite a try, but I have to be careful of what I use since I have a pet tarantula in the snake room. His name is 'Beetlejuice' and he is a Brazilian Giant White Knee Tarantula.

I just saw this from that article link you posted about the mite life cycle, I also have my rodents in my snake room so I have to be careful they don't get any provent a mite on them if I decide to use that stuff.

" Rodents that have been treated with insecticides for mite infestations can be highly toxic to snakes."

Now that I'm using paper towels instead of aspen bedding I'm going through my rack twice a day instead of weekly and changing it out when the snakes mess on it. Gives me the chance to spray down the tub for mites and to keep a better eye on my snakes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cchardwick

I might give that Provent a mite a try, but I have to be careful of what I use since I have a pet tarantula in the snake room. His name is 'Beetlejuice' and he is a Brazilian Giant White Knee Tarantula.

---

Yeah I would think of moving this guy to another room for a while. This enclosure would also need to be cleaned. ;)

Well I have a new strategy for cleaning my rack. Once a day I go through each tub and check for either mites on the paper towel substrate or poo from the snakes. Either one and I move the snake to a clean tub and clean up his mess and kill the mites. If I see mites I spray the paper towel substrate with reptile spray to instantly kill them. Then I remove the paper towel and spray the inside of the tub with reptile spray, use a paper towel and wipe the whole thing down inside and out with reptile spray, then use a dry paper towel to dry it off. Then I spray the inside of the tub with water and wipe it out and dry it real good with a paper towel. I change out the water and Dixie cup and put down several layers of fresh paper towels.

Ever since I removed the aspen bedding, put down paper towels, and started checking on my snakes every day their attitude totally changed. My wild and crazy king snakes are really mellow now and don't mind being handled at all. My woma python is all coiled up in the back over the heat, just loving the new paper towel substrate, seems very happy! It could also be that I'm removing the smell from the tubs every day if they poo, or that they are pretty much mite free now, or a combo of all of these.

I noticed a few red spots still on my Fire Pied, the one that had the worst infection. So I sprayed him down again today, it's been a couple days since I last sprayed him down. I checked on him after about a half hour and he just had one mite on him running around, it was so small I could barely even see it. I'm guessing that mite will die eventually.

I also noticed that the tub below the one with the worst mite outbreak had quite a few mites in there on the paper towel tonight. This is the tub with my Woma python, I didn't see any mites on the python itself, only on the paper towels all around him.

I plan on wiping all my snakes down once a week until I get to the point where I don't see any mites at all on the paper towels. I'm also wiping down the rack all around the tubs with reptile spray if I remove one and before I put a new one back in the rack. This has been one crazy experience!

Here's an update, it doesn't look like my strategy is working very well. After three days I had one tub with a major infestation again. And I have the small fire pied that didn't look so well, so I wiped him down with water and put a wet paper towel over him, checked on him after a few hours and he is looking much better, was just super lethargic.

My new strategy for the tubs is to move each snake to a freshly cleaned tub every day or two, will probably not wipe down the snakes unless I see a mite, then will just spot wipe them. I'm also spraying the tubs with mite spray, wiping them down and keeping them damp and letting them air dry, i.e. more prolonged contact with the mite spray. Then after about five minutes I spray them down with water and dry and put new paper towels. This time it seemed like most of the mites were under the paper towels. Perhaps it was the eggs left in the trays that hatched out?

My hope is that with more frequent cleaning of the tubs I'll remove all of the adult mites before they can lay eggs and break the cycle.

Which mite spray are you using?

Are you cleaning EVERYTHING every couple days?

I also use the Provent a mite as well as natural chemistry reptile spray directly on my snakes. I am currently treating them today. With the PAM take out the water dish and snakes of course, then spray the cage and let it set for about a half hour 45 minutes. I have all mine on display in aquariums. So what I do is after removing my snakes and the water-dish. I spray everything then put a towl or blanket on top let it set. Then I take the towel off for about 5 minutes or so then I check to make sure the fumes are dissipated or barley noticeable then put the water dish and my snakes back in. Hope this helps.

Not really sure I have to use prevent a mite since I don't have any decorations, no substrate, nothing at all except a tub that I can wipe down completely with reptile spray. At first I was wiping down the entire rack, in between all of the tubs and all over. Now I'm just focusing on the tubs since I reduced the mite population significantly.

Tonight I went through the rack the second day in a row and saw only two snake with one mite each on them, one that had red spots and I wasn't sure so I wiped him down, and another one with five or six mites that were right underneath him on the paper towel, so I wiped him down too. I'm going to use reptile spray for the tubs and spot clean the snakes by wiping with reptile spray (only if I think I see a mite) and change out the Dixie cup water bowls and paper towels every day until I don't see a mite for at least a few days. At least it looks like the population is dwindling, just need to keep on top of it on a daily basis.

I kind of like seeing my snakes every day, seems to calm them down and I can catch them when they poo right away so they don't sit in it. Seems like at least two out of seventeen poo every day. For snakes in shed I've been putting a wet paper towel on them after I get them all cleaned up. And I'm wiping them down with a wet paper towel wetted with water so I can get the reptile spray off of them before they shed. I'm just glad I don't have thousands of snakes! You can bet I'll be quarantining all of my new snakes in a separate part of the house!

Reptile Spray only works when wet. Once dry it's ineffective.

PAM works for up to 30 days after it dries, which is why it's effective. If you don't want to spray the tubs, at least spray the paper that you will be using for substrate and allow it to dry before putting it in the tubs. The mites will come into contact with the permethrin when they walk on the paper.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bcr229

Reptile Spray only works when wet. Once dry it's ineffective.

PAM works for up to 30 days after it dries, which is why it's effective. If you don't want to spray the tubs, at least spray the paper that you will be using for substrate and allow it to dry before putting it in the tubs. The mites will come into contact with the permethrin when they walk on the paper.

---

PAM scares the heck out of me, I'm not sure I'm ready to use something that potent just yet. Not sure if I'm comfortable exposing my animals and myself to a strong chemical like that. If I can't get rid of the mites in a few weeks I may resort to PAM.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cchardwick

PAM scares the heck out of me, I'm not sure I'm ready to use something that potent just yet. Not sure if I'm comfortable exposing my animals and myself to a strong chemical like that. If I can't get rid of the mites in a few weeks I may resort to PAM.

---

Permethrin is dangerous if ingested or applied directly to the critter. I understand your concern but when used as directed it's safe.

If you truly want to avoid chemicals then you can use heat to kill mites and eggs in the tubs, hides, and racks - 140*F for five seconds will do the trick. Either a heat gun like for stripping paint or a steam cleaner will work. Just don't get surfaces too hot or you can melt glue and plastic.

Use the PAM. I am sure you have better things to do than kill bugs. I take my tubs out to my screened in porch to spray them and let them dry. I have never had a problem with PAM and everyone I know that has more than a few snakes uses it.

Well I think I'm finally winning the war against the mites! I've sure learned a lot of things along the way, here are a few:

• I didn't end up using PAM but used the reptile spray instead. I found that you can't let the mites go for three days because they multiply like crazy! I've been cleaning all the tubs every day and I'm getting fewer and fewer each day, today I only saw one adult mite in my whole rack system.

• I read that the mites can crawl all over the room so I've been vacuuming the floor after every tub cleaning session. Seems to be helping.

• Since I've been cleaning tubs every day and changing water and paper towels the attitude of my snakes has totally changed. My little king snakes used to go crazy and pee on me every time I picked them up. Now they are totally mellow, don't even seem like the same snakes. I had one really mean ball python (bumble bee) that would snap at me every time I opened up the cage. He still gives me a mean look when I pick him up but he doesn't strike at me anymore. And I've only been handling my snakes for about 30 seconds every day just to move them to a clean tub, seems like it doesn't take much to tame them down, less than a minute each day. Maybe since I clean their tubs every day they are figuring out I have their best interests in mind.

• I'm finding that out of all of my 17 snakes there are several that go to the bathroom each and every day. I never noticed that when I used aspen bedding, I'm guessing it got mixed in with the bedding. That may have affected their appetite, seems like they eat more now. I'm sure it's better for the snakes to have clean tubs as soon as possible after they mess them up.

• For humidity I've been spraying down the paper towels on the bottom with water then putting a balled up and wetted paper towel in the front and in the back. That gives them an option of heat / no heat and more or less humidity depending on where they are in the tub. At first I put all the balled up paper towels in the front by the water dish, but they all seemed to migrate to the humidity and away from the heat. I'm sure some prefer both heat and humidity. Here in Colorado we have a very dry climate and the paper towels are nearly dried out after 24 hours, only the balled up ones have some humidity left in them.

• I still have a couple snakes that have red / tan spots all over them, I'm pretty sure those are battle scars from the mite infestation. I'll be sure to watch for that especially when I buy snakes. I know now that black spots on the snakes can be mites under the scales, but not all the time (for example my Coral Glow has spots).

• I've been thinking some more about using PAM. My main concern is that it is active for 30 days, if I put it on a paper towel and let it dry and then put it in the tub I suppose it's possible for that paper towel to get wet and for the PAM to come off and get on the snake. I think I may be more comfortable putting the PAM dried paper towels in between my tubs just under or over the tub. You would think they would stay dry there and the mites would probably still walk over them getting around the rack system. This may be a good long term strategy for controlling the mites, perhaps I could actually tape them in place to hold them there and change them out every 30 days or so.

• I also learned that you can't open the tubs and quickly check for mites. I tried that the first few days and found that I had a new major infestation underneath the paper towels, literally dozens of mites under there and not a single mite on top of the paper towel. That's when I decided to get really aggressive.

• It seems like mechanical control helps as much or more than chemical control, i.e. removing the paper towels and wiping down the inside of the tubs on a daily basis. If there are any microscopic baby mites in the tubs seems like simply changing out the paper towels removes any small immature mites that could be there.

• I found that reptile spray is excellent at immediately and completely eliminating the nasty snake poo odor. It totally eliminates the odor when wiping out a tub. They should market that stuff as snake smell eliminator as well as a mite spray LOL.

Overall it was a very educational experience. Not only did I learn a lot about the mites but I learned a lot about my snakes and their husbandry. I may actually continue to use paper towels and mite spray to clean out the tubs and clean them out quite frequently, at least check on all the tubs on a daily basis.

Just a thought re:vacuuming. Whenever dealing with insect infestation and using a vacuum as a weapon, I've always gotten a cheap flea & tick collar that they sell for dogs and leave it in the canister/bag to kill them and prevent reinfestation from crawl outs either from the machine itself or while emptying it.

Glad you are winning the war though! :)

I'm actually keeping the vacuum cleaner in a different room so that should help with the crawl out. I actually didn't get to my rack yesterday and was eager to clean it up today to see how many mites I could find. I went through all of the tubs and I didn't find a single mite! Looks like I finally won the war. I'll probably do a tub cleaning every 2-3 days with the reptile spray just to be sure. Even after two days there were quite a few tubs where the snakes went to the bathroom and stunk them up, I'll probably just open tubs and clean dirty ones every 2 days or so after my mite war is finished.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cchardwick

I'm actually keeping the vacuum cleaner in a different room so that should help with the crawl out. I actually didn't get to my rack yesterday and was eager to clean it up today to see how many mites I could find. I went through all of the tubs and I didn't find a single mite! Looks like I finally won the war. I'll probably do a tub cleaning every 2-3 days with the reptile spray just to be sure. Even after two days there were quite a few tubs where the snakes went to the bathroom and stunk them up, I'll probably just open tubs and clean dirty ones every 2 days or so after my mite war is finished.

---

No offense, but if you had used the Provent-A-Mite from the start as instructed on the bottle, you wouldn't have to do all the extra labor/work of cleaning daily and quite honestly your war would have been over. Also, Provent-A-Mite is the ONLY EPA & USDA Reptile approved mite spray and quite frankly many of the "organic" or "natural" products on the market may be less expensive but really don't really work effectively.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tacticalveterinarian

quite frankly many of the "organic" or "natural" products on the market may be less expensive but really don't really work effectively.

---

The one time I had mites it worked great for me.
Still continue to use on new animals that go in my quarantine rack too.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tacticalveterinarian

No offense, but if you had used the Provent-A-Mite from the start as instructed on the bottle, you wouldn't have to do all the extra labor/work of cleaning daily and quite honestly your war would have been over. Also, Provent-A-Mite is the ONLY EPA & USDA Reptile approved mite spray and quite frankly many of the "organic" or "natural" products on the market may be less expensive but really don't really work effectively.

---

I'm glad it's been working for you, I also see big breeders use Provent a Mite with success. But it's stories like this that spook me, I've spent way too many thousands of dollars to take a chance on killing them, especially since some are very young and have had only a few meals.

http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/gener...need-help.html

Personally if I could kill the mites with something even safer than the reptile spray I'd be willing to do even a little more labor to treat my snakes and keep them safe.

I would bet good money that your mites will come back. I am treating with PAM as we speak like I do every month. Pam never killed a snake that I am personally aware of. You realize that the mites can pass a problem from one animal to another right? What you are doing is like trying to kill mosquitos by swatting them as malaria spreads throughout the village. Even a reptile vet has now told you that PAM is safe. What you do with your collection is your business but please realize that your thread may mislead others.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JodanOrNoDan

Even a reptile vet has now told you that PAM is safe. What you do with your collection is your business but please realize that your thread may mislead others.

---

Now I would like to know what is misleading when there are several keepers here that do not use pam and have treated mite problems without use of pam?
There are also several other chemicals that you can use to deal with mites.
I would rather use something that I can use on my animals without worry.
You might want to research more about pam and the neurological problems from animals coming into contact with it when wet.
There have been a couple threads posted about it here if I remember right??

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

Now I would like to know what is misleading when there are several keepers here that do not use pam and have treated mite problems without use of pam?
There are also several other chemicals that you can use to deal with mites.
I would rather use something that I can use on my animals without worry.
You might want to research more about pam and the neurological problems from animals coming into contact with it when wet.
There have been a couple threads posted about it here if I remember right??

---

I do agree there are many different ways and products available that can deal with mites.

However, in my experience when dealing with a mite INFESTATION (not just 1 or 2 snakes with a few mites,), PAM is by far the most effective because it stays for 30 days which really helps to stop the life cycle of the mite stages.

Sure you can treat mites without PAM. It is the hard way though. Blood sucking animals transmit disease. I would rather take my chances with the PAM. Every day a mite is alive is a day it can transmit disease. I have been using PAM for quite some time and have never had a problem. Of course I tend to read directions. It needs to be dry before the animal goes back in. In the Army we had a little tool that was very effective called a claymore. These things are very safe (to the user) when used as directed. Printed right on the thing is FRONT TOWARDS ENEMY. You would only not follow those directions one time.

All that said I believe Pit keeps arachnids. If he is keeping them anywhere near his snakes he cannot use PAM, so he would be the one to listen to if you absolutely did not want to go that route.

I've been watching like a hawk for them to come back. I went through all the tubs again today and cleaned the ones with poop and sprayed the ones that were dry, no mites at all that I could see in any of the tubs, and the ones that I cleaned out I wiped them down with reptile spray, then with water to rinse and dry them before adding paper towels. I'll continue to go through them every couple days and spot clean. I'm betting that I got them all but you never know... If I even see one mite I'll scrub down the whole rack again. It's very dry here in Colorado so they say the mites can dry out and die a bit easier than humid climates. After two days my balled up soaking wet paper towels in the tubs are completely dried out. I'll be sure to let you know if I see them come back. The red spots on the snake that was infested the most are slowly going away.

Once I get to the point where I have more than about 20 snakes and just one rack I'd probably consider PAM. For multiple racks with hundreds of snakes there's probably no other way to do it than to gas your whole room with something like PAM.