Baby ball python husbandry/pet store rescue

Hi guys, new here and new to ball python care
Recently bought a baby 70g ball python from a Petco and then after reading up on them I realized my mistake of buying from a pet store. I've had my baby for about 6 days and he has yet to eat for me, and the pet store said he did not eat for them. I have been uaing frozen thawed pinkies every two days, today am going to try a live fuzzy. Any tips or help to offer? This is my first snake

Start here and fix all husbandry first: http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...-Hatchling-101

At 70 grams that snake may have only eaten once or twice in its life and probably never f/t.
After getting husbandry fixed leave it alone for several days and then try a live hopper mouse.

^^^^ Exactly what Pit said!

What are you using as a heat device? Are you using a thermostat, rheostat or dimmer to regulate the heat device? What are you using to take your temps? What are you using for humidity and what is your humidity level? What kind of hides are you using?

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

Start here and fix all husbandry first: http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...-Hatchling-101

At 70 grams that snake may have only eaten once or twice in its life and probably never f/t.
After getting husbandry fixed leave it alone for several days and then try a live hopper mouse.

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https://s32.postimg.org/tx3ky68w1/IMAG0061.jpg
Here is a picture for reference I've had him out a couple times for short periods he seems curious but still skittish, bought a plastic tub today to leave him in

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Originally Posted by chrid16371

What are you using as a heat device? Are you using a thermostat, rheostat or dimmer to regulate the heat device? What are you using to take your temps? What are you using for humidity and what is your humidity level? What kind of hides are you using?

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https://s32.postimg.org/57v6zkbqp/IMAG0062.jpg
Here is the new enclosure,the aspen substrate is about 1/2 inch thick, right now I am just using a heating pad set on low until my rheostat comes in then will be using a zoomed uth. The hide is a cave that came with a larger enclosure starter kit from the pet store. He/she seemed to like that one more so I used that. Baby has been moved around a lot trying to make things just right for him/her how long should i wait to try to feed?

Those gauges are crapo. I would return them if I were you. Heating pad? The ones for humans? If so, really bad idea. You are courting a burn. If the ambient temp is anywhere close to 83 it is better to have no heat source than an unregulated heating pad for a human or a reptile. Wait one week after a refusal to try again.

Unplug that heat pad immediately!!! Go to amazon and order q acurite 00891 thermometer/hygrometer and a inkbird itc-308 thermostat or a JumpStart or hydrofarm. Then go to Lowes and get a lutron lamp dimmer until you get a thermostat and then take back the lamp dimmer. A rheostat is just like a dimmer so it won't automatically adjust to room temp like a thermostat will. You can use it but make sure you have the correct thermometer or temp gun to take your temps the right way.

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Originally Posted by AntTheDestroyer

Whoa this got intense fast. I think Chrid has some good advice about the equipment needed. I think instead of buying and returning the dimmer, I would probably just unplug the heater till the thermostat arrived. As it is summer the animal should be just fine for the two days Amazon takes to ship. A note on the ink bird, though they work well for me they do take a bit of wiring. If you are not comfortable with wiring diagrams I would suggest the other option.

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The inkbird itc-308 is a prewired model ready to use, at least I'm pretty sure, I could be wrong. Guy I work with has one and it doesn't look like someone wired, I'll have to ask him.

Just double checked online. The itc-308 is prewired.

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Originally Posted by chrid16371

I didn't realize I could do that with the dimmers, thought I had them laying around for no reason except for maybe if my thermostats failed and then my back ups failed. I'll put them to use then just in case. I have Herpstats and VE thermostats so failing probably isn't likely but better safe than sorry. Thanks.

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VE's are known for failing wide open. I know several people who have lost racks of snakes to them.

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Originally Posted by bcr229

VE's are known for failing wide open. I know several people who have lost racks of snakes to them.

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Was it the older ones that failed wide open or is there no older ones? I see on reptile basics site they say there's a safety relay in them.

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

Stores sell items. They are not here for you to just borrow things. SMH

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Ok so digital thermometer and a thermostat to regulate the UTH? Money really isn't an issue I just want to make sure my snake is set up properly requiring as little maintenance as possible..
I have a rheostat coming in today i am still trying to get the humidity levels right in the small temp tank anything I could do different?

Yes, buying a digital hygrometer would also be good. The rheostat will work to regulate the uth but you will have to adjust a little when the room temp changes. If you decide to order a thermostat off amazon then I recommend also ordering the acurite 00891, it will give you all your temps and humidty from the one device. Walmart may also have the acurite, they sell for around $12 on amazon and at walmart if they have it in stock. Cover the top of the enclosure so the humidity stays trapped inside, you can also put the water bowl over the uth once you have the thermostat or rheostat hooked up.

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Originally Posted by amfedor12

Ok so digital thermometer and a thermostat to regulate the UTH? Money really isn't an issue I just want to make sure my snake is set up properly requiring as little maintenance as possible..
I have a rheostat coming in today i am still trying to get the humidity levels right in the small temp tank anything I could do different?

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Definitely go with a thermostat a rheostat acts like a dimmer and doesn't really give you a good constant temperature. I'm a fan of spyder robotics I have 2 of the original herpstats and they work like a champ. I'm sure Dion has improved even in the newer model.

Http://www.spyderrobotics.com


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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

I am not familiar with that tub. What type of lid is on it? Working with humidity in a tub vs a tank are two different fights.
In a tub, the more holes for air also let out humidity, if its a screen top you start covering to stop humidity escape.

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The tub is just a plastic tub from Walmart with a lid that I drilled some holes into, the humidity hasn't dropped lower than 70 though so I think I will need more holes drilled

This thread has been cleaned up to remove the off-topic posts. Please keep it on-topic going forward.

The discussion regarding product returns may be continued in The Quarantie Room if you should choose to participate:
Using or Not Using the System - That is the Question

Quote:

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Originally Posted by amfedor12

The tub is just a plastic tub from Walmart with a lid that I drilled some holes into, the humidity hasn't dropped lower than 70 though so I think I will need more holes drilled

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How many holes are in your tub already? You can add more holes, use a smaller water dish, change to paper towels or newspaper.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Eric Alan

This thread has been cleaned up to remove the off-topic posts. Please keep it on-topic going forward.

The discussion regarding product returns may be continued in The Quarantie Room if you should choose to participate:
Using or Not Using the System - That is the Question

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Thank you,
I've set him up in the big tank because after having him in the tub for 5 days I tried feeding a frozen thawed fuzzy and he seemed not to like it,getting scared and trying to hide I think he might be frightened by my hand? Anyways I put him in his big tank after all the equipment came in and I got it set up since I figured that's where he's going to be anyways, he is hidden up in the tree since I put him in there though, I'm going to attempt trying to feed him a live mouse tomorrow as it will have been five days since I tried feeding last. I'm not sure if I'm just feeding him wrong or if he's still jus stressed from all the movement his tank is regulated by a thermostat and uth at night with a blue bulb on a dimmer plus the ugh during the day maintaining 92-98 on the hot side and 75-80 on the cool side

https://s32.postimg.org/7i5i2scb5/IMAG0072.jpg

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Originally Posted by amfedor12

Thank you,
I've set him up in the big tank because after having him in the tub for 5 days I tried feeding a frozen thawed fuzzy and he seemed not to like it,getting scared and trying to hide I think he might be frightened by my hand? Anyways I put him in his big tank after all the equipment came in and I got it set up since I figured that's where he's going to be anyways, he is hidden up in the tree since I put him in there though, I'm going to attempt trying to feed him a live mouse tomorrow as it will have been five days since I tried feeding last. I'm not sure if I'm just feeding him wrong or if he's still jus stressed from all the movement his tank is regulated by a thermostat and uth at night with a blue bulb on a dimmer plus the ugh during the day maintaining 92-98 on the hot side and 75-80 on the cool side

https://s32.postimg.org/7i5i2scb5/IMAG0072.jpg

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So after all the sound advice you set up a 70 grams hatchling in a large tank and still wonder while he will not eat? Did you read the link Pit provided?

It's not about keeping the animal in a tub for 5 days but until he is about 200 grams and is a strong feeder right now what you did is just setting you up for failure.

Not to mention your temps fluctuating too much and being too high.

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If your not using the bulb to keep cool side up just remove it. Your thermostat needs to be dropped way down, it should never be over 94 under the substrate over the uth. Do you have your thermostat probe sandwiched between the uth and bottom of cage? Are you using a digital thermometer with probe or a temp gun?

You shouldn't of moved your snake out of the tub, 5 days in the tub wasn't going to fix anything but may 10 or 20 if you keep your temps and humidity right as well. The big tank is going to stress it out and cause refusals which you can't really afford to let that go on to long with a 70g snake.

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So no my question is: WHY ask or help I you are not going to take any advise?
This is why so many threads do not get responded to....

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Originally Posted by Deborah

So after all the sound advice you set up a 70 grams hatchling in a large tank and still wonder while he will not eat? Did you read the link Pit provided?

It's not about keeping the animal in a tub for 5 days but until he is about 200 grams and is a strong feeder right now what you did is just setting you up for failure.

Not to mention your temps fluctuating too much and being too high.

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I guess I'm just being impatient and worried because he still hasn't eaten. I have him in the tub now but I put more holes in the side to keep humidity down, thermostat in between the uth and tank. Probe from hygrometer inside in the bottom of the tank. I also moved the enclosure to a separate room nobody goes in. Snakes are unlike any animal I've ever owned so I should have listened to you guys in the first place I'm sorry. I jus hope its not too late. There's a window in the room I have him in should I still have the lamp for him? The hygrometer is 89 on the probe and 78-79 on the cool side, humidity 56%. I just did this how long should I wait to try feeding and would a live mouse be the best for him since he's still scared? Every time I go to open the tub to check the guage to make sure its heated right he's at the top of the lid looking through the holes I made

Quote:

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Originally Posted by amfedor12

I guess I'm just being impatient and worried because he still hasn't eaten. I have him in the tub now but I put more holes in the side to keep humidity down, thermostat in between the uth and tank. Probe from hygrometer inside in the bottom of the tank. I also moved the enclosure to a separate room nobody goes in. Snakes are unlike any animal I've ever owned so I should have listened to you guys in the first place I'm sorry. I jus hope its not too late. There's a window in the room I have him in should I still have the lamp for him? The hygrometer is 89 on the probe and 78-79 on the cool side, humidity 56%. I just did this how long should I wait to try feeding and would a live mouse be the best for him since he's still scared? Every time I go to open the tub to check the guage to make sure its heated right he's at the top of the lid looking through the holes I made

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You need to be patient, I know it's your first and it is stressful but patience and optimum husbandry will pay off. Stop opening the tub all the time, the more you open the more you are stressing him too, LEAVE HIM alone as much as possible and offer a live hopper in 5 to 7 days.

The natural daylight from the room is more than sufficient.

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Originally Posted by Deborah

You need to be patient, I know it's your first and it is stressful but patience and optimum husbandry will pay off. Stop opening the tub all the time, the more you open the more you are stressing him too, LEAVE HIM alone as much as possible and offer a live hopper in 5 to 7 days.

The natural daylight from the room is more than sufficient.

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Does it matter if the tub is clear or opaque? Im trying not to keep opening it but the temps and humidity are not stabilized yet, just looked and the humidity says hi? It looked like he was in and out of the water though i dont know if that makes a difference

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Originally Posted by amfedor12

Does it matter if the tub is clear or opaque? Im trying not to keep opening it but the temps and humidity are not stabilized yet, just looked and the humidity says hi? It looked like he was in and out of the water though i dont know if that makes a difference

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No it doesn't matter if the tub is clear or not. I use all clear tubs. If the animal seems nervous I keep the tub covered until it chills out.

Nothing will ever stabilize, including the snake, if you keep messing with it as often as you are.

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Originally Posted by JodanOrNoDan

No it doesn't matter if the tub is clear or not. I use all clear tubs. If the animal seems nervous I keep the tub covered until it chills out.

Nothing will ever stabilize, including the snake, if you keep messing with it as often as you are.

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I'm trying to not mess with it so much now I just want to make sure the temps stay right so I can leave it alone for a couple days minus changing the water..
The cool side right now is too low like 70 and the humidity is 75% and 87 on the probe, I think I'm going to have to switch to a smaller water bowl but what should I do about the cool side being that cold?

Sometimes the " easiest" thing to do is just heat the room the tank/tub is in to 79\80 degrees.
You can also run a second heat mat/ tape on another thermostat set to 80.


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Originally Posted by amfedor12

Thank you,
I've set him up in the big tank because after having him in the tub for 5 days I tried feeding a frozen thawed fuzzy and he seemed not to like it,getting scared and trying to hide I think he might be frightened by my hand? Anyways I put him in his big tank after all the equipment came in and I got it set up since I figured that's where he's going to be anyways, he is hidden up in the tree since I put him in there though, I'm going to attempt trying to feed him a live mouse tomorrow as it will have been five days since I tried feeding last. I'm not sure if I'm just feeding him wrong or if he's still jus stressed from all the movement his tank is regulated by a thermostat and uth at night with a blue bulb on a dimmer plus the ugh during the day maintaining 92-98 on the hot side and 75-80 on the cool side

https://s32.postimg.org/7i5i2scb5/IMAG0072.jpg

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you need more hides in there and clutter it up.I have my baby BP in a 40 gallon but I have 8 hides and it's cluttered up and it eats every 7 days.Also try a live fuzzie it's natural instinct to eat live fuzzie don't last 30 seconds with my baby.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Deborah

You need to be patient, I know it's your first and it is stressful but patience and optimum husbandry will pay off. Stop opening the tub all the time, the more you open the more you are stressing him too, LEAVE HIM alone as much as possible and offer a live hopper in 5 to 7 days.

The natural daylight from the room is more than sufficient.

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So good news he finally ate for me the other day! I gave him a live rat pup. He seems content with his setup as it is but still shy with me, any thoughta as to how often I should be handling him? I want him eventually used to being out and being handled often

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Originally Posted by amfedor12

So good news he finally ate for me the other day! I gave him a live rat pup. He seems content with his setup as it is but still shy with me, any thoughta as to how often I should be handling him? I want him eventually used to being out and being handled often

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Until he's eating consistently handle him as little as possible. I would give him a month.

Keep the initial handling sessions short, no more than a few minutes. One or two short sessions per day is better than a longer session every few days, so he learns that you won't hurt him.

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Originally Posted by bcr229

Until he's eating consistently handle him as little as possible. I would give him a month.

Keep the initial handling sessions short, no more than a few minutes. One or two short sessions per day is better than a longer session every few days, so he learns that you won't hurt him.

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So an update for those that would like to know, he's eaten for me consistently every time I've fed him since I switched to the pinkies. I handle him usually about once in the morning and once at night for around five minutes or so and he seems like he's warmed up to me a whole lot since getting him.
Today I noticed his eyes turned an opaque greyish color so I'm assuming he's getting ready to shed? What should I be doing in these next couple days to ease the process? Also because his feeding day will be coming up in two days so should I skip it or feed him like normal?

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Originally Posted by amfedor12

So an update for those that would like to know, he's eaten for me consistently every time I've fed him since I switched to the pinkies. I handle him usually about once in the morning and once at night for around five minutes or so and he seems like he's warmed up to me a whole lot since getting him.
Today I noticed his eyes turned an opaque greyish color so I'm assuming he's getting ready to shed? What should I be doing in these next couple days to ease the process? Also because his feeding day will be coming up in two days so should I skip it or feed him like normal?

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I'm new to ball pythons myself, but have learned that when they are in shed, they can turn into antisocial little beasties and it's best to leave them alone. Someone told me that much of it has to do with that opaqueness making it difficult for them to see. One of mine eats every time, shed or no shed, and another one goes off her feed when it happens. You could offer the meal and see if he'll take it.

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Originally Posted by butterballpython

I'm new to ball pythons myself, but have learned that when they are in shed, they can turn into antisocial little beasties and it's best to leave them alone. Someone told me that much of it has to do with that opaqueness making it difficult for them to see. One of mine eats every time, shed or no shed, and another one goes off her feed when it happens. You could offer the meal and see if he'll take it.

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I handled him today he was very active today but still has not shed for me? The eyes are not opaque/grey anymore tho..I have the humidity up to 65 right now and am going to try feeding later on tonight should I be worried or just stay patient? Or maybe he's not ready to shed at all and the eye color was from something else?
This is all considering he is a he and not a she, and speaking of which how and when could I find that out?

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Originally Posted by amfedor12

I handled him today he was very active today but still has not shed for me? The eyes are not opaque/grey anymore tho..I have the humidity up to 65 right now and am going to try feeding later on tonight should I be worried or just stay patient? Or maybe he's not ready to shed at all and the eye color was from something else?
This is all considering he is a he and not a she, and speaking of which how and when could I find that out?

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Congratulations on your first ball python! This is my first year keeping snakes and I'm up to 17 snakes right now, about half are ball pythons and I can tell you the learning curve is pretty steep. There are a lot of different opinions out there and most people will just repeat what they have heard over and over without really trying it themselves.

I just went through a major snake mite infestation, you may want to keep an eye out for them. They are tiny little black specs on the snake and in the substrate. I actually just switched to paper towels and realized I had tons of those little blood suckers. If you don't see any I'd probably wait for a few weeks until he gets several meals in him then switch to a paper towel substrate for a week or so and watch closely to be sure there's not one single mite in there, they can reproduce like crazy, I had hundreds if not thousands of those little buggers in my tubs. I'm almost afraid to get another snake after my war with the mites.

Yesterday I had the same thing you had with the blue eyes that cleared up with no shed on two of my snakes, I thought that was very strange because I've never heard about it before.

As I was reading through your posts I was thinking rat pups myself. Not sure I'd ever feed a live mouse to a snake again unless it was a decent sized snake, too much risk of the mouse biting your snake. I've had several get bitten, none serious, but they can take an eye out of your snake. It's much safer with live rat pups. A rat pup that is just about to open his eyes is as big as a jumbo mouse and much less likely to bite. Personally I prefer to feed fresh killed mice or ASF first, putting them down with CO2, then if that doesn't work follow up with rat pups. Almost all that refuse the mice will go for the rat pups unless they are in a deep shed.

I actually started my collection with glass critter cages (aquariums) and found that those really stress out the snakes. I had snake hides in each and all the snakes would just hide all day. I went to a professional ARS rack system with tubs and my snakes are much happier. Now I use my aquariums to raise mice and rats. If you use the aquarium for your snake I would not use that wooden hide as the only hide, I'd use a snake hide with a single opening, something like this below. My snakes loved these hides because they feel really secure. Now I use tubs without anything besides substrate, much easier to clean. My mice and rats get these hides now LOL.

http://thumbs2.ebaystatic.com/d/l225...DjOqkDMMgQ.jpg

I've also found that handling your snakes for short periods on a daily basis does more good than harm, in fact since I'm at the end of my war with the mites and I was handling every snake every day they have all mellowed out to much that they don't even seem like the same snakes! I'd probably start with several short sessions of just a few minutes and work up from there. I have one snake that really wants to get out and be held as much as possible (a big Woma python).

Personally I don't worry too much about humidity, I'm still using paper towels and it jumps up and down like crazy. I just spray it down every day or two and when it dries out spray it again. Just make sure it stays high when they are in shed and that it doesn't get too dry for several days at a time if possible, my snakes get really sluggish after several dry days, but just one day at high humidity and they are back to themselves again.

Most people suggest too high of a temp. I think mid to upper 80s max for a hotspot is perfect. I also keep my snake room in the mid 70s. They all seem very happy. If you don't have a thermostat on your heat source it's better to just heat the room with a space heater to mid 70s until you can get your setup correct.

I also keep very small snakes in large tubs that are not clear (grey tubs) and have no problems at all with a stressed out snake. If they were in a glass aquarium or clear tub they would be stressed out to the max, not so in a grey tub that they can't see out of with minimal light coming in. I'm sure at some point I'll have a few more ARS racks for baby snakes and grow outs, probably easier to keep them in smaller tubs, but for me just starting out I can only afford a rack with full size tubs, I won't have to move them around and it seem to work just fine.

You may also want to do a 'sniff test' of your tank every day or two. Now that I've switched to paper towels I see that these snakes go to the bathroom every few days and stick up the cages. Usually a snake won't eat if the cage is stinky. It's hard to see and smell with aspen as it kind of dilutes it out.

I hope all of this info helps!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cchardwick

Congratulations on your first ball python! This is my first year keeping snakes and I'm up to 17 snakes right now, about half are ball pythons and I can tell you the learning curve is pretty steep. There are a lot of different opinions out there and most people will just repeat what they have heard over and over without really trying it themselves.

I just went through a major snake mite infestation, you may want to keep an eye out for them. They are tiny little black specs on the snake and in the substrate. I actually just switched to paper towels and realized I had tons of those little blood suckers. If you don't see any I'd probably wait for a few weeks until he gets several meals in him then switch to a paper towel substrate for a week or so and watch closely to be sure there's not one single mite in there, they can reproduce like crazy, I had hundreds if not thousands of those little buggers in my tubs. I'm almost afraid to get another snake after my war with the mites.

Yesterday I had the same thing you had with the blue eyes that cleared up with no shed on two of my snakes, I thought that was very strange because I've never heard about it before.

As I was reading through your posts I was thinking rat pups myself. Not sure I'd ever feed a live mouse to a snake again unless it was a decent sized snake, too much risk of the mouse biting your snake. I've had several get bitten, none serious, but they can take an eye out of your snake. It's much safer with live rat pups. A rat pup that is just about to open his eyes is as big as a jumbo mouse and much less likely to bite. Personally I prefer to feed fresh killed mice or ASF first, putting them down with CO2, then if that doesn't work follow up with rat pups. Almost all that refuse the mice will go for the rat pups unless they are in a deep shed.

I actually started my collection with glass critter cages (aquariums) and found that those really stress out the snakes. I had snake hides in each and all the snakes would just hide all day. I went to a professional ARS rack system with tubs and my snakes are much happier. Now I use my aquariums to raise mice and rats. If you use the aquarium for your snake I would not use that wooden hide as the only hide, I'd use a snake hide with a single opening, something like this below. My snakes loved these hides because they feel really secure. Now I use tubs without anything besides substrate, much easier to clean. My mice and rats get these hides now LOL.

http://thumbs2.ebaystatic.com/d/l225...DjOqkDMMgQ.jpg

I've also found that handling your snakes for short periods on a daily basis does more good than harm, in fact since I'm at the end of my war with the mites and I was handling every snake every day they have all mellowed out to much that they don't even seem like the same snakes! I'd probably start with several short sessions of just a few minutes and work up from there. I have one snake that really wants to get out and be held as much as possible (a big Woma python).

Personally I don't worry too much about humidity, I'm still using paper towels and it jumps up and down like crazy. I just spray it down every day or two and when it dries out spray it again. Just make sure it stays high when they are in shed and that it doesn't get too dry for several days at a time if possible, my snakes get really sluggish after several dry days, but just one day at high humidity and they are back to themselves again.

Most people suggest too high of a temp. I think mid to upper 80s max for a hotspot is perfect. I also keep my snake room in the mid 70s. They all seem very happy. If you don't have a thermostat on your heat source it's better to just heat the room with a space heater to mid 70s until you can get your setup correct.

I also keep very small snakes in large tubs that are not clear (grey tubs) and have no problems at all with a stressed out snake. If they were in a glass aquarium or clear tub they would be stressed out to the max, not so in a grey tub that they can't see out of with minimal light coming in. I'm sure at some point I'll have a few more ARS racks for baby snakes and grow outs, probably easier to keep them in smaller tubs, but for me just starting out I can only afford a rack with full size tubs, I won't have to move them around and it seem to work just fine.

You may also want to do a 'sniff test' of your tank every day or two. Now that I've switched to paper towels I see that these snakes go to the bathroom every few days and stick up the cages. Usually a snake won't eat if the cage is stinky. It's hard to see and smell with aspen as it kind of dilutes it out.

I hope all of this info helps!

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Thanks for all the info,
Good news my snake has started his shed as of yesterday! Keeping humidity high to aid with it, what else should I do to help out? All I have in the cage is a wooden hide and water bowl and hygrometer