Heat question?

Hi! Not new to reptile, but totally new to snakes!!!
Yesterday we got a 3 year old female Spider ball from a guy who was rehoming her.
Set up: 40g tank, uth for a 30-40g, (reptile carpet over just the uth,) then bedding. One hide over uth, one hide on opposite side of tank. Water bowl and climbing tree central. 50 watt ambient heat night black light over the uth hut, 75watt ambient heat night black light over cold side. (Probe on hot side sits on the bedding inside the hut and probe for coold side sits right beside the hut at ground level.)

We are moving in august, but right now, the ac is wonky. 21 freezes us but 22 boils us and shoots the tank Temps to insane proportions.

At the moment, with the ac running game almost constantly, her hot side probe, (ground level inside hut) reads 93.5, so I moved that light a touch more central and it now reads 89.4. Her cold side probe (ground level, beside hut) reads 79.7. (I've come to the conclusion from research that cold side 78-85 is acceptable and hot side 88-95 is acceptable?

Are these Temps ok? Shoukd i bump the cold side to a 100watt ambient light night black light or will that be too hot?

She seems to prefer the cold side.

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Originally Posted by Yzmasmom

uth for a 30-40g, (reptile carpet over just the uth,) then bedding.

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What is the temperature of the glass UNDER all the substrate?
How are you regulating your UTH.
The temperature of the hit side, I would bet is not correct.

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

What is the temperature of the glass UNDER all the substrate?
How are you regulating your UTH.
The temperature of the hit side, I would bet is not correct.

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I don't know what it is directly on the glass, but it's the temperature where she's sitting that I need to measure right? It sits between 89 and 92 depending g on where I move the 50 watt light.

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

What is the temperature of the glass UNDER all the substrate?
How are you regulating your UTH.
The temperature of the hit side, I would bet is not correct.

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I don't know what it is directly on the glass, but it's the temperature where she's sitting that I need to measure right? It sits between 89 and 92 depending g on where I move the 50 watt light.

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Originally Posted by Yzmasmom

I don't know what it is directly on the glass, but it's the temperature where she's sitting that I need to measure right?

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Nope they an and will burrow. You need to temp the hottest part your snake can touch. Glass under everything.
BTW I would trash the reticarpet, You cannot really clean it after it has been "soiled".

You need to measure the glass under the substrate because they can and will excavate down to that and too hot and you've got a hurt snake. Too cool above and, well, they'll get down to where they need to be.

I have another carpet to switch out when this gets dirty.

So, if I get the part right on top of the carpet to 90, then the top of the bedding temp doesn't matter?

What they are saying is that you need a thermostat to regulate the UTH. If you don't have one it will get the floor of the tank up to 120-125*F, hot enough to burn your snake = big vet bill. Your snake will find his way under the carpet; ball pythons love to burrow.

I was recommended to use the carpet by a breeder.

So.... by using the thermostat to keep the spot under the bedding at 90, then the surface temp will be colder. This is ok? I won't know the surface temp with the thermometer under the bedding.

Also, on the cold side, where should the probe be?

Get a thermostat and make the temp under the bedding no higher than 94, then above your bedding should be around 88-90. If you are not getting 88-90 then you need to thin out the bedding over the hot side which is something you can't do with carpet and another reason to get rid of it. You need a ir temp gun or another probe thermometer so you can monitor the temp under bedding and on top.

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Also you absolutely must unplug the uth until you get a thermostat or something else to regulate temp. Your night heat bulb will keep the cage warm until you get one. Also I recommend you buy a acurite 00891, you put probe on hot side under bedding and place the rest of the unit on the cool side and it will give you hot temp, cool temp, and humidity and then you can use your other probe thermometer for on top of bedding.

Again unplug uth until you have a thermostat or something to regulate the temp. Good thermostats listed in order starting with my most recommended are Spyder Robotics Herpstat 1, Reptile basics VE-200, Reptile basics VE-100, inkbird itc-308. If you can afford it definitely go with one of the first 2.

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http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...f0d4e1be95.jpg

Get something similar to this here although they don't make this one anymore I don't think?

However in a 40g breeder like I used to use before my rack systems set the temp to about 95-96.3 the hottest area they'll be able to touch is 91 give or take a hundredth of a degree. They WILL burrow. I use aspen as a substrate and under their hides in their tubs they will push ALL of the substrate out and lay on the tubs. They will do the same thing in a tank!


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Originally Posted by chrid16371

Get a thermostat and make the temp under the bedding no higher than 94, then above your bedding should be around 88-90. If you are not getting 88-90 then you need to thin out the bedding over the hot side which is something you can't do with carpet and another reason to get rid of it. You need a ir temp gun or another probe thermometer so you can monitor the temp under bedding and on top.

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OK. Thermostat is on and the temp is dropping because yes, it was way too high. It's not a super expensive one. Not digital, but we will keep an eye out to see what the temp is when it turns back on and adjust accordingly. Then, tomorrow I will get another thermometer to tell the temp of the surface in her hut. (I will move or get rid of the ambient black light if needed to get the surface temp to 88-90.) I like the dim light since I can see her with it and it's so dim it doesn't bother her.

The temp on the cold side reads 83 degrees at the surface, just outside her hut. It's with the 75watt ambient black light. Should it be at the surface IN the cold side hut or is it ok where it is?

OK. Thermostat is on and the temp is dropping because yes, it was way too high. It's not a super expensive one. Not digital, but we will keep an eye out to see what the temp is when it turns back on and adjust accordingly. Then, tomorrow I will get another thermometer to tell the temp of the surface in her hut. (I will move or get rid of the ambient black light if needed to get the surface temp to 88-90.) I like the dim light since I can see her with it and it's so dim it doesn't bother her.

The temp on the cold side reads 83 degrees at the surface, just outside her hut. It's with the 75watt ambient black light. Should it be at the surface IN the cold side hut or is it ok where it is?

What thermostat did you get if I may ask? Something is better than nothing. You want the thermostat probe between the uth and the bottom of your cage, that's if you got a thermostat and not a rheostat since a rheostat doesn't have a probe. Where you have your cool side probe is fine, 83 is about the hottest you will want it on the cool side so if you need to get a lamp dimmer for the bulb. What is your humidity at? Also what brand thermometer are you using?

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Originally Posted by chrid16371

What thermostat did you get if I may ask? Something is better than nothing. You want the thermostat probe between the uth and the bottom of your cage, that's if you got a thermostat and not a rheostat since a rheostat doesn't have a probe. Where you have your cool side probe is fine, 83 is about the hottest you will want it on the cool side so if you need to get a lamp dimmer for the bulb. What is your humidity at? Also what brand thermometer are you using?

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It's impossible to get the thermostat probe between the glass and the uth.... the uth is already stuck on. We put the thermostat probe next to the thermometer probe on the bottom of the tank.

I use zoomed digital thermometers with probes and I ha e a zoomed Reptitemp 500R thermostat.

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The uth is under the tank, not inside.

You will need to peel the uth back a little and just push it in, I have done it multiple times and have even moved them to other enclosures. Just barely peel it and push probe in and press uth back into place. You don't want probe inside bc snake can bump it and then it would be just like the uth wasn't even on a thermostat.

I will tell you I own quite a few of those zoomed thermometers and after I got a ir temp gun and acurite 00891 I realized they were off by 5-10 degrees on some. Not one was under 5 degrees off. That was my experience with them and all the thermometers I have used labeled for reptiles. Also I would monitor your thermostat closely. I had 2 that were very in consistent, they were set at 90 and would drop 5 degrees and heat back up to 93+ and then drop 5 degrees again and go up sometimes only 2 degrees sometimes to unsafe levels before it shut off again so my experience with them were not good so I switched to lamp dimmers until I bought a reliable one. I can't say the same will happen to you but pay close attention. I would order the inkbird itc-308 from amazon, it is only around $30-40 and will only drop 1 degree before it starts heating again making so your temps dont fluctuate a lot and just keep package and receipt to the zoo med thermostat and return it once you get the inkbird. Just my opinion.

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Fluid/urine will change the reading of the probe on the thermostat, this is the reason you don't want it inside the enclosure.

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h1...psp2koldrd.jpg

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

Fluid/urine will change the reading of the probe on the thermostat, this is the reason you don't want it inside the enclosure.

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h1...psp2koldrd.jpg

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ok, thermostat is set and seems to be holding the temp under all the bedding around 91 degrees. So, tomorrow I will grab another thermometer so I can know what the surface temp in her hut is, and I will boost or remove the ambient black light to do that.

I set her up yesterday and he bedding comes already moist. Her humidity has been at 70 since yesterday. Should I just wait while it dries out to about 50-60 before I mist?

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

Fluid/urine will change the reading of the probe on the thermostat, this is the reason you don't want it inside the enclosure.

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Yep. Your snake can also get tangled in the cord and pull the probe away from the heated area. Always put the t-stat probe outside the enclosure.

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Originally Posted by chrid16371

What thermostat did you get if I may ask? Something is better than nothing. You want the thermostat probe between the uth and the bottom of your cage, that's if you got a thermostat and not a rheostat since a rheostat doesn't have a probe. Where you have your cool side probe is fine, 83 is about the hottest you will want it on the cool side so if you need to get a lamp dimmer for the bulb. What is your humidity at? Also what brand thermometer are you using?

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I'm going back to get the digital thermostat tomorrow. This dial one has way to big of a range when turning on and off.

As for now peeling away the heat mat and putting the probe between it and the glass: 1. Will the mat restick to the glass?
2. Does it have to be stuck to the center of the mat or is the edge-ish ok?
3. Will it make the spot of the mat where the probe is, less effective, since hat spot is now not stuck on the glass but instead stuck on the probe?
4. What do you recommend I set the thermostat to? 92? Then see what the surface temp reads? And as long as the surface is between 88 and 91 it's ok? (I do have the 50 watt ambient black light to aid in the surface reaching the correct temp (and for viewing.)

It doesn't have to be directly in the middle but I would put it a little bit further in then the edge. It won't be less effective heating. The mat will restick and if your worried you can use foil tape to tape the mat to the bottom of tank. You might have to set the thermostat higher than 92 bc of the loss of heat through the glass, just make sure it is no higher than 94 inside the tank under the substrate on top of glass and between 88-90 will be ok for top of substrate.

Good call on getting a digital, just make sure you look it up or see if the package tells you how much it drops before it heats again. IMO I wouldn't want anything the drops more then 2 degrees but that's just me.

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How many degrees did the zoomed thermostat drop? Just curious how it compared to the ones I use to have.

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Originally Posted by chrid16371

How many degrees did the zoomed thermostat drop? Just curious how it compared to the ones I use to have.

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Not sure how far the other one dropped. It was terrible though.

This one is a thermostat and will also do humidity if needed. I set it to 92 and when it reaches 92, it will shut off but the heat will still some times reach 94 before it drops down, so I'm hesitant to set it for 94, fearing it may reach 96. Right now her surface is 77 and climbing. I also have the black light to help with surface temp.

Its reaching 94 inside the tank under the substrate with it set at 92? Did you move the thermostat probe between uth and bottom of tank? How much does it drop down from 92 before it starts heating again?

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It's been plugged in for about an hour now. It is set for 92 and shuts off at 92 but since it is still hot, will rise to a max of 94 before the temp begins to drop, (like when you burn your hand, it continues to burn until it's put in cold water.) It turns on again at about 90-91. So all in all, it is keeping the glass surface at 90-94. Her bedding surface is at 77.8 so it is slowly climbing. I may put a 75watt black ambient light above the hut to help boost it. She seems to prefer the cool side, so I will be happy with her hot side reaching 88-90.

Her cool side is 79.3 right now, but I'm sure it will rise a bit as the mat temperature heats the tank.


This is all good yes?

She was super curious as we were messing about in her home and came out to see what we were doing, even though she's only been here for 2 days. Once we left her alone she slithered around to inspect things and is just kinda hanging out draped over her tree, into a the cold hut.

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Originally Posted by chrid16371

Its reaching 94 inside the tank under the substrate with it set at 92? Did you move the thermostat probe between uth and bottom of tank? How much does it drop down from 92 before it starts heating again?

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Just sent a reply, but didn't quote.

Everything sounds good as long as the thermostat probe in between the uth and glass and not inside the tank. You can thin out the substrate over the uth to help get it to temp. Your cool side temp is fine, keep it between 78-82. The uth won't help heat the cool side since it only heats the spot right above it, it doesn't heat the air at all.

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That is how an ON/OFF thermostat works. Usually a 5 degree swing.

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Originally Posted by chrid16371

Everything sounds good as long as the thermostat probe in between the uth and glass and not inside the tank. You can thin out the substrate over the uth to help get it to temp. Your cool side temp is fine, keep it between 78-82. The uth won't help heat the cool side since it only heats the spot right above it, it doesn't heat the air at all.

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I will get the probe between the glass and uth when I go to clean out her enclosure. Right now, it would cause her too much stress because I'd have to take a lot of the stuff out of her home in order to be able to move it. I'm pretty happy with the glass reading between 90 and 94 and her surface has reached 80. I will bump the bulb to a 75watt to get the rest of the way to 90. Cold side is 81.5.

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Originally Posted by Yzmasmom

I will get the probe between the glass and uth when I go to clean out her enclosure. Right now, it would cause her too much stress because I'd have to take a lot of the stuff out of her home in order to be able to move it. I'm pretty happy with the glass reading between 90 and 94 and her surface has reached 80. I will bump the bulb to a 75watt to get the rest of the way to 90. Cold side is 81.5.

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Yeah change the probe when you can. Sounds like you have everything else running good. Your thermostat is doing exactly what it's suppose to do so your all good.

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Originally Posted by chrid16371

Yeah change the probe when you can. Sounds like you have everything else running good. Your thermostat is doing exactly what it's suppose to do so your all good.

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I know they are nocturnal, but she will be up cruising in the day sometimes. Is that OK? She is cruising and looking at way to escape now, buy it's 9pm so that's normal I guess.

Also, I know their urates are white, but I've seen a bp with liquid urine on YouTube. ... how do I know if she's had liquid urine? Kinda hard to spot clean that with bedding. Do they urinate often or is it like poop, just once after theyou eat? I guess that's why the breeder says clean the entire enclosure every 2 months...

Her previous owner fed her the Friday before last. I will let her settle in longer and then try. Maybe Monday. (I'd like to feed early week so I can hold her on weekends.)

The urine will be in pretty much the same spot as the poop and urates, I just pick up that area to the bottom of cage and a little around it and then either spread some bedding from the cage to fill in the spot or add to the spot from the bag. There is so set time when they go to bathroom, it could be a couple days after a meal or it could be a month lol they go when they want to go.

She will cruise until she is settled in, just leave her alone till feeding time. Just change water and spot clean until she is settled in. You should wait till she eats a few times before you handle. You should wait 48hrs after eating to handle. I usually handle mine once or twice between feedings since I feed every 5 days, I don't handle on feeding day. Don't be discouraged if she doesn't eat her first meal, wait at least 5 days and try again. If she doesn't eat within a few weeks I would start looking for something that might be wrong with the setup. Feed her whatever the previous owner was feeding meaning if she was being fed f/t feed f/ , if she was eating live feed live but if she was eating live never leave unattended. Also if she was eating rats feed rats, mice feed mice. If she was eating f/t have you read up on ways to prepare them? Also just make sure you feed a rodent the about the same size as the widest part of your snake, a little bigger is fine. Another thing you could do if you have a gram scale is take the scale to get rodents and weigh them to find ones that are 10%-15% of body weight.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by chrid16371

The urine will be in pretty much the same spot as the poop and urates, I just pick up that area to the bottom of cage and a little around it and then either spread some bedding from the cage to fill in the spot or add to the spot from the bag. There is so set time when they go to bathroom, it could be a couple days after a meal or it could be a month lol they go when they want to go.

She will cruise until she is settled in, just leave her alone till feeding time. Just change water and spot clean until she is settled in. You should wait till she eats a few times before you handle. You should wait 48hrs after eating to handle. I usually handle mine once or twice between feedings since I feed every 5 days, I don't handle on feeding day. Don't be discouraged if she doesn't eat her first meal, wait at least 5 days and try again. If she doesn't eat within a few weeks I would start looking for something that might be wrong with the setup. Feed her whatever the previous owner was feeding meaning if she was being fed f/t feed f/ , if she was eating live feed live but if she was eating live never leave unattended. Also if she was eating rats feed rats, mice feed mice. If she was eating f/t have you read up on ways to prepare them? Also just make sure you feed a rodent the about the same size as the widest part of your snake, a little bigger is fine. Another thing you could do if you have a gram scale is take the scale to get rodents and weigh them to find ones that are 10%-15% of body weight.

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She was fed mainly live but the owner did also feed f/t and said she will take that. I cant do live - I've had pet rats and I just can't. He said colour of rat didn't matter to her. I've heard to defrost in lukewarm water (in a baggie) and then let the thawed rat sit in a baggie in hot water to get it to "live Temps." I will let her settle in this week and weekend and try her on Monday. I really hope she eats because I'm dyyyyying to hold her!!! (He underfed her with once a month feedings so I hope she eats.) She eats medium rats. I guess one each time?

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Originally Posted by chrid16371

The urine will be in pretty much the same spot as the poop and urates, I just pick up that area to the bottom of cage and a little around it and then either spread some bedding from the cage to fill in the spot or add to the spot from the bag. There is so set time when they go to bathroom, it could be a couple days after a meal or it could be a month lol they go when they want to go.

She will cruise until she is settled in, just leave her alone till feeding time. Just change water and spot clean until she is settled in. You should wait till she eats a few times before you handle. You should wait 48hrs after eating to handle. I usually handle mine once or twice between feedings since I feed every 5 days, I don't handle on feeding day. Don't be discouraged if she doesn't eat her first meal, wait at least 5 days and try again. If she doesn't eat within a few weeks I would start looking for something that might be wrong with the setup. Feed her whatever the previous owner was feeding meaning if she was being fed f/t feed f/ , if she was eating live feed live but if she was eating live never leave unattended. Also if she was eating rats feed rats, mice feed mice. If she was eating f/t have you read up on ways to prepare them? Also just make sure you feed a rodent the about the same size as the widest part of your snake, a little bigger is fine. Another thing you could do if you have a gram scale is take the scale to get rodents and weigh them to find ones that are 10%-15% of body weight.

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I cant think of why she'didn't be upset. She's in a 36" long by 18" tall by 18" wide enclosure, bedding, two identical huts (one she came with,) the climbing tree she came with, a bigger water bowl and proper Temps and the ambient black light heat. Previous owner had her with a too small water bowl and a 100watt reptile basking bulb that he left on 24/7 and that was it for heat. So makes sense that she likes it cooler and stays in her cool hut unless cruising.
Not a ton of floor space, but she gets around. When we move in a month she will be on the side server in the dining room where it will be a bit brighter with the window, but the only traffic will be at dinner time. Other than that it will be nice and quiet for her. (My husband is going to build his beardie an enclosure and we may try to stack the snake on top and they would be in his computer room, but that's at ways off.)

Also, her cold side goes between 81-83.5 and her hot side hovers between 88 and 89.5, so, should I remove some bedding over the uth to get it to 90/92?

Bps are very sensitive to change so even though the conditions are better she still is adjusting.

Your temps are good, I would keep everything where it's at.

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Thanks.

Because of the ac her hot side dropped to 86 so I put the 100watt black light on and now it's where it should be. Gave her enclosure a misting today too - she got offended and pulled her head in the hut, hahaha. She came out to explore and look around the top to see if she could escape, then went back to bed, lol.

Now to see if she will eat next Monday....

It's no problem if it goes up and down a couple degrees now and then but with the ac the light was probably a good idea. Don't worry mine all duck for cover when I mist too lol except my super pastel, he has a misting system and when he is in shed he will come out sometimes and wait for it to mist and them go back in his hide when it's done. You will notice goofy things yours does at some point lol. Before you know it you will have another snake bc of how much you love this one!

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Originally Posted by chrid16371

It's no problem if it goes up and down a couple degrees now and then but with the ac the light was probably a good idea. Don't worry mine all duck for cover when I mist too lol except my super pastel, he has a misting system and when he is in shed he will come out sometimes and wait for it to mist and them go back in his hide when it's done. You will notice goofy things yours does at some point lol. Before you know it you will have another snake bc of how much you love this one!

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If I'm messing with the lights above her she comes out and tilts her head back until it's straight up and down, like she's looking at what I'm doing. It's so cute!