Do ball pythons really need an UTH?

Hello, So I'm new to owning a ball python, and I have a question about he needs the UTH. I'll explain a little about him first. He's just a typical pet store ball python that I received from a friend who could no longer care for him about a month ago. He was in horrible conditions with no humidity and not enough heat, dry sheds, and very underweight. My guess is that he is around two years old, He's also just a little over two feet, and 482grams. I have him in a 40-gallon tank with a screen top which is on legs that raise it about an inch off of the desk it's on.
Right now I have a ceramic heat bulb that is 100 watts, which I just leave on all day. His heat temps stay around 80-90, and the humidity stays around 60, which goes up to 80 when he sheds. I also have a small heating pad for a 10-20 gallon tank half of which is under his water dish with about an inch of substrate between the two. He never actually goes and lays on top of it, But should I move the heating pad elsewhere for him? Like under the rock, he hides in. I've read that they need belly heat to help digest their food, but I've also read that they don't. Any tips for the UTH is very welcomed.
Thank you.

interested here, from what i was reading you should get one of those infrared thermometers so you can tell what the temp is, if his hiding spot is hot enough then you should not need the uth, but i could be way off here however this is how i understand it. some one correct me if i am wrong... do you know what the temp is on the cool side? the UTH might be what is giving you your humidity levels as well, so again from what i understand and if it was me i would check the temp where he lays and if it is where it needs to be, and your cool side is where it needs to be then i would leave it alone... again someone chime in here if i am way off...


Mike

UTH is a great way to warm your snake without drying out the tank. They tend to preserve humidity better than heat lamps, and way better than CHEs. That being said, you must not *ever* simply put a heating pad under the tank by itself. At a minimum you must use a thermostat to regulate the temperature. Even with substrate, BPs are known to burrow, and just because the substrate feels warm to your hand, that's not a proper way to gauge temps and your snake is likely to get a burn. So if you would like to use a UTH, make sure you do the following:

Elevate the tank to ensure proper air flow. If you simply attach a heating pad to a tank and then rest the tank on the floor, you run the risk of overheating, and it takes a little longer for the heat pad to cool if it gets too warm.

Put the probe for the thermostat between the OUTER bottom of the tank, and then put the heating pad on. So tank, probe, pad.

Set the thermostat to a proper temp, anywhere around 90 is fine, and allow the pad to adjust accordingly.

Very imortant step: verify the temps by using a temp gun on the INNER bottom of the tank (so push the substrate aside, put the heat gun to the bottom of the tank from the inside, and get a reading). If it's higher than 94 or so, set it lower, or you run the risk of potentially burning your snake.

It's also important to have the UTH plugged into a source that will shut it off in the event of a power surge.

Hope this helps! :) Good luck

On a side note, you're making it sound like you have the UTH inside of the tank, forgive me if this isn't the case and it just sounded like it --- an UTH should ALWAYS be OUTSIDE of the tank, between the table (or whatever the tank is on) and the tank. There should be at least a centimetre of space between the heat pad and the tank, so heat doesn't build up. The thermostat probe goes in between the heat pad and the tank. Having it beneath two centimetres of substrate inside the enclosure is not safe. Its also important that you have a thermostat, and the probe for such has to be on the CENTER of the pad.

If you have the heatsource inside of the tank, or directly beneath it without that centimetre, you run serious risk of burning your snake, even at lower temperatures!

EDIT Aaaand again I was beat to it, someone else was faster AND provided more information ;)

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Long story short get an infrared gun to measure temps. Make sure nothing your snake can get to is much above 90f. This includes right underneath the CHE.
Bps don't need heat mats. They don't have heat mats in the wild so why should they need them in captivity is the way I look at it. And yes your heat mat if you use one should be under the hot hide to make the hot spot.
(If you have the heat mat inside) .Putting heat mats inside the viv is something ALOT of people do so that is YOUR choice and no one else's. I wouldn't personally do it but alot do so again that is your choice.

Also unless you are doing alot to keep your humidity up then it's hard to believe that you have a 100w che on full on aspen substrate with a screen top and have 60% humidity. . . I do not mean any offence by this it just can be difficult to achieve.

If your using a heat mat such as a Kane or intelletemp heat mat they can go inside enclosure, a heat mat set at 94 or lower inside or outside will not burn a snake. The heat mat MUST BE REGULATED WITH A THERMOSTAT or rheostat. If you don't have a way to regulate the uth you must unplug it.

How are you taking temps? If your using the analog ones they are very inaccurate. You need a digital thermometer with probe like the acurite 00891 or you need an ir temp gun.

No you don't need to use a uth for heat. Other choice are ceramic heat emitters, radiant heat panel, red bulbs, or ambient by running the temp of the room around 84 24/7. No matter what you choose to heat you need a dimmer at least but a thermostat is highly recommended.

Also read the care sheet in the link below and make any adjustments!

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...ius)-Caresheet http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...ius)-Caresheet


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Forgot to mention thermostats. Every heat source needs to be on a Thermostat.
Temps are best to be constantly monitored so a digital thermometer under the substrate on the hot side and then one on the cold side is best IMO.
I don't monitor ambient. There is no accurate way to monitor ambient so I think it's pointless. As long as you have a warm and cool side then your good.

Do they need an UTH? No
Just remember any heat source should be regulated.
You should also use a quality thermometer and hydrometer to check your husbandry.
If you are using stick on analog gauges, they are trash junk.
You should also be measuring the SURFACE temperature that would be the hottest surface your animal can touch.

Your che can be your only heat source but you still need a dimmer or thermostat. You would still want a ir temp gun or the acurite 00891. If your going to use the che as your only heat source you have to take your temps on the ground where the middle of where the che hits. If you buy the acurite you can put the probe on the hot side ground and the rest of the unit on the cool side so you can have your hot side, cool side, and humidity all on one device. Again if your using the analog style temp and humidity gauges you are getting inaccurate readings.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

Do they need an UTH? No
Just remember any heat source should be regulated.
You should also use a quality thermometer and hydrometer to check your husbandry.
If you are using stick on analog gauges, they are trash junk.
You should also be measuring the SURFACE temperature that would be the hottest surface your animal can touch.

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^^^ This, 100%.

Also , i thought that putting the uth under a water bowl , like he says hes doing , will make bacteria grow alot faster ...


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Do they need a UTH? No however it is often more efficient as heat travels up and there is less heat loss this way, not the case with heat lamp and so forth.

Do they need additional heat at all? No, not if you keep them in a controlled room in the mid 80's

Quote:

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Originally Posted by meganmarkita15

Also , i thought that putting the uth under a water bowl , like he says hes doing , will make bacteria grow alot faster ...


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Putting a water bowl over where your uth sits helps humidity. If it promoted harmful bacteria growth I don't think it would be recommended as much as it is.

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Okay , thats just what i thought i read somewheres :)


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The tank is already 80-90 degrees with moderately high humidity mostly kept in the dark.. its already a habitat thats basically perfect for bacteria.. this is why you change your substrate out and clean everything so often. As far as the water bowl itself being over the UTH, it wont hurt anything. The water will evaporate in a couple of days anyway so there will be fresh water in the tank before anything in the water becomes dangerous.

Tomorrow I'll look into getting an infrared thermometer, and a probe thermometer for the UTH and the rest of the levels. The pad is under the tank, which is raised from the table and is then covered by an inch of the substrate with half of the water bowl on top. To anyone commenting on the humidity, I know it's extremely hard to keep that at a right level, But because he's had so much problem with past living conditions I want to maintain the humidity around 60-70 and then raise it for a shed, so he has no issues. I'm also spraying his cage down about three or two times a day to keep it level. Which I know he doesn't mind because he always comes out to say hello when I spray. The analogs are sitting on top of the substrate. But the rest of my husbandry is fine from everything that I've read over the past two months. I knew heating and humidity would be questionable for me because I know everyone's ways are different. I replaced the substrate about a month ago, and will keep doing so. But yes, tomorrow I'll be getting the infrared and probes for his tank. Thank you so much to everyone who responded

Can I just quickly recommend doing the salt test on your Hygrometers. No matter what hygrometer you have, cheap or expensive, digital or analog, they are almost always incorrect. With a salt test (putting salt with a bit of water in a bottle cap placed in a zip lock bag with your hygrometer in with it should make the hygrometer read 75% humidity after a few hours) you will know exactly how right or wrong your hygrometer is
I've seen it to many times where people say "my viv is soaking wet but I can't get about 50% humidity" . Everyone should check their hygrometers work as soon as they buy them so they know if their going to be off and by how much.

You haven't mentioned if you have a thermostat or dimmer to regulate your heat source. A thermostat or other regulating device to give your snake the proper temp and not burn your snake. If you don't have a thermostat or something else to regulate the uth you must unplug it until you do. It doesn't matter how many inches of substrate you put in your snake will eventually burrow down into it and will get burned. Again unplug if your not regulating with a thermostat or dimmer.

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Right, Before I made the original post, I unplugged the UTH because I realized that It should be monitored for heat. Last night I found an infrared thermometer and had been keeping an eye on the temps around his tank, So far they look good, and surprisingly the analogs were pretty accurate, but I know that it's better to use the probes to get the best reading. As mentioned above in my last post, I purchased a probe thermometer for the UTH, and a hygrometer and thermometer with probes for the rest of the tank, and I will continue to use the infrared on top of everything else.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Holly_Berry

Right, Before I made the original post, I unplugged the UTH because I realized that It should be monitored for heat. Last night I found an infrared thermometer and had been keeping an eye on the temps around his tank, So far they look good, and surprisingly the analogs were pretty accurate, but I know that it's better to use the probes to get the best reading. As mentioned above in my last post, I purchased a probe thermometer for the UTH, and a hygrometer and thermometer with probes for the rest of the tank, and I will continue to use the infrared on top of everything else.

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Chrid is right - if you don't have a thermostat plugged into the UTH your snake is still at risk of a burn... are you or have you purchased a thermoSTAT because this is important...I don't know what you mean by a probe thermometer...but in any case with a UTH you must get a thermostat.

When you take your temp of your uth you must take it under the substrate on top of glass right over the uth. The temp must not be over 94 under the substrate. Leave it unplugged until you get a thermostat or something else to regulate it.

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Yes, I ordered a thermostat online, and until it comes I've unplugged the UTH. And what I mean by the thermometer with the probe is that it will show me my temp and humidity in the tank using probes and is shown on one screen. The probes will allow me to move them around to be able to monitor the temps and humidity within the tank.

Get the acurite 00891. Only $12 from amazon and the most accurate I've come across. It will give you the hot side, cool side, and humidity all from one device.

When you get your thermostat you will want to put the thermostat probe sandwiched between the uth and glass and set your thermostat until until you get a temp of no higher than 94 under the substrate. You may have to set the thermostat a little higher than 94 do to the heat loss through the glass.

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Sorry to stress it and it sounds like you have it all under control once everything arrives. I didn't have a thermostat at first and didn't know that you needed one for a small heat pad, luckily it was only a short time and Valentine never got burned. Since then I've seen SO many posts about the same thing (no thermostat) and people end up with very burned snakes which is hard to see. The sticky post on how to set up a cage in the Husbandry forum was what I went off to setup my tank which was incredibly helpful. Good luck with your newly acquired pet.

Yeah I'm sorry as well. I feel like a broken record repeating you need a thermostat in someone's post everyday and I know other people feel the same way. Some people just don't get it and then you end up seeing a new thread about a ball pythons belly turning red and they don't know why, almost every time it's a burn from a unregulated heat source. To the people the members on this forum and I tell that don't listen that is there fault but to those new owners it's not there fault bc the store never told them they needed one, a lot of employees don't know either unfortunately and the normal pet store uth like zoo med packaging doesn't even say you need one.

Anyways good job on ordering the thermostat, your che will keep your bp warm until you get one. After you have your thermometer with probe or if you already have an ir temp gun make sure you take the temp on top of the substrate where the che heats the ground, check all around the ground that the che is over and you want it to be no hotter than 90 on top of the substrate IMO. If it is above that temp a simple lamp dimmer or raising the dome off the cage will lower the temp.

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Yeah! no problem for stressing about it. You should have seen the conditions he came from before I got him. I'm surprised he's even alive. No heat, No humidity, in a shed, and underweight? A plastic tub used for storing food as his water dish, which hadn't been cleaned in weeks, a melted screen? Horrible conditions, and even after I got him I've probably spent close to $200 on different little things he needed, and of course I'm still figuring out everything. I did extensive research before requiring him, and I may have overlooked the thermostat thing, reading it as "thermometer" kinda like I did here. But I do not remember reading anything about the thermostats for ANY heating device in the tank. Thank you so much for all of your help. I've placed the orders and they should be here soon (thank god for prime or this would be costing me so much more). I really appreciate all your help, So far he's doing extremely good. Thanks again!