Feeding Question

Is it better to feed a boa a small meal more frequently or a larger meal less frequetly

I would feed the smaller prey item. Frequency would depend on the age/size of your snake. Any pucs of your snake.

there are a few boa regulars who must not be checking their phones today, but you are going to get a lot of good info on this topic in this forum!
The long and short of it is, less is more, it is very hard to underfeed a boa but very easy to overfeed. as far as size of prey and schedule, variation most closely resembles their natural habits. sometimes a small item sometimes an appropriate one (same diameter as mid-body) and dont abide by a set schedule. frequency does depend on age but anything over a year should be fed twice a month at the most, but less is fine, and certainly less as they get older. that is actually a rather liberal guideline, many fast their boas over the winter, or reduce feedings to every 6 to 8 weeks with very good results; increased activity and energy and, perhaps counterintuitively, strong growth. My boa just turned 2 so this winter will be his first fast.
Like i said, this thread is very likely to yield a ton of very insightful responses, so stay tuned. :D

Here ya go for some reading about feeding large constrictors and how it affects them physically. I don't really have a set time for my snakes. I try and feed Dottie and Vicky every 2-3 weeks and Rosey every 3 weeks to 1 month. https://www.uta.edu/news/releases/20...-intestine.php

There are a lot of variables.

Less is more, but there is more to it than that. If you attempt to mimic seasonal changes, your snake may eat frequently right before the winter months, and this would be normal. When winter hits I drop temps and don't feed at all over the winter.

If I offer a larger prey item like a rabbit, I will go 1 month or longer before I feed again. When I feed next, I will offer a smaller item, one that is very small and feed sooner with a medium prey item next time.

I always wait until the snake has passed all signs of the previous meal.

Variation in meal frequency, prey type and size are all part of it. In nature, a boa will find and take in whatever food it can, when it can.

In captivity we control the feeding cycle. Feeding boa on the conservative side is best all things considered. The goal is a long lived, healthy snake. Captive prey has more fat and guess less exercise than wild prey and we need to consider that.

This subject is long and involved and there are various ages/stages in the snake's life that require different feeding intervals.

THE COMPLETE BOA CONSTRICTOR by Vincent Russo has very good information on feeding.

You will NEVER hurt a boa by feeding smaller prey and waiting 3 weeks or longer between meals.

If you feed large prey (within reason) wait much longer to feed again.

I hope that helped.

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Originally Posted by Gio

This subject is long and involved and there are various ages/stages in the snake's life that require different feeding intervals.

THE COMPLETE BOA CONSTRICTOR by Vincent Russo has very good information on feeding.

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My copy arrived two days ago but i cant open it until father's day! :reading:

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Originally Posted by rlondon1231

Is it better to feed a boa a small meal more frequently or a larger meal less frequetly

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I think that it depends upon the individual snake. Also are you talking about babies/yearlings, sub adults, or adults? Each one can be very different.

Then throw in the wildcard of what Gio is saying about dropping temps in the winter, that can change the snakes feeding regimen entirely.


My two adult Boas are fed differently. Elenore gets a jumbo rat instead of mediums more frequently because it eliminates cage/feeding agression with HER. If I feed her small meals she tends to slam into the glass as I walk by sometimes. And then she does the hover S and tracks me. If I feed her a jumbo rat, she is peaceful for 4-6 or 7 weeks.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...1382ce6d8d.jpg
Elenore, Common BI tracking me after slamming the glass.


The previous owner of Punch was feeding him 2 jumbo rats every 10-14 days. While his shape is good, I bet a dollar to the donut that he has fatty organs. I only feed him one jumbo rat every 3-4 weeks. Keep in mind his large girth, going by some guidelines of feeding prey size a bit larger than his largest girth, it would take 3-4 jumbos to make a bulge, which is way too much. So I feel that his one jumbo is a much more healthy option.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...20d834468d.jpg
Punch, Common BI - about 2.5 - 3 times larger girth AND 1.5 -2 feet longer than Elenore.


My adult BP is more consistent and calm with large meals as well as a few of my Carpets. My male Coastal had scarey cage/food agression and I stopped it with large meals spread out further.
But his female sibling, Etta, has always been calm with small meals closer together.

I am just relating my experience which seems to indicate that it is a case by case decision.

It also depends on the food item. Rabbits are really lean so I wouldn't feed them exclusively as any animal needs some fat in their diet to help break down proteins. I switch Rosey between large rats and small rabbits. Vicky isn't large enough for rabbits yet so she gets rats only. She used to get mice and rats but she has outgrown the mice lol. And in case you don't know, guinea pigs are bad for boas as they have a lot of fat. They are fine for pythons though. You can also do quails and chicks too.

I feed my yearling boa shes about 4 feet long every 7-10 a smaller meal and im woundering if i should feed her a bigger meal less frequntly because some times she will try and bite me through her cage

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Seems like, based on Reinz' comment (which i thought was extreamly interesting btw), a bigger meal less frequently is definitely worth a try.

Yea i think im going to try it

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I feed my 12 year old about once a month with a 3 month break in winter. She gets jumbo rats but I really want to get her some rabbits & quail to try too just haven't placed an order recently.

My two that are a year old get rat pups or adult mice every 2 weeks and they have been on that schedule since they were around 6-7 months old. My male will either be pushed back to 3 weeks or smaller meals at every 2 weeks haven't decided.

My yearish old dwarf boas get fuzzy mice every 2 weeks.

I would go with bigger and more spaced out feedings probably.

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Originally Posted by Reinz

My two adult Boas are fed differently. Elenore gets a jumbo rat instead of mediums more frequently because it eliminates cage/feeding agression with HER. If I feed her small meals she tends to slam into the glass as I walk by sometimes. And then she does the hover S and tracks me. If I feed her a jumbo rat, she is peaceful for 4-6 or 7 weeks...

The previous owner of Punch was feeding him 2 jumbo rats every 10-14 days. While his shape is good, I bet a dollar to the donut that he has fatty organs. I only feed him one jumbo rat every 3-4 weeks...

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If you can get rabbits that weigh the same as the jumbo rats you're feeding now I would urge you to switch both of them. Rabbits have heavier bones, more lean muscle, and much less fat than similarly-sized rats, and jumbo rats in particular are often old, retired breeders with a high fat content. I've also noticed mine seem to be satisfied longer with a rabbit than a jumbo rat of the same weight, I'm guessing because it takes longer for those thicker bones to get digested.

Rabbits do have some fat - about 10% - enough to encourage the boa to slowly process extra fat they're retaining without the massive dump associated with suddenly putting a critter with fatty liver disease onto a low fat diet (this is more of an issue with cats IIRC).

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...5c78b281ae.jpg right now shes esting 1 weaned rat every 7-14 days. Should i give her maybe 2 every 14 days

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by rlondon1231

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...5c78b281ae.jpg right now shes esting 1 weaned rat every 7-14 days. Should i give her maybe 2 every 14 days

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Skip the 2 items and feed one larger.

As far as prey type there is barley an animal alive that doesn't have fat in its physical make up.

If you are feeding captive bred prey, which most of us are, you are feeding your snake an animal that has more fat than the same type of animal in the wild. THE WILD has various obstacles for all animals. Usually wild animals need to find food and shelter (things that are a given for captive animals) and satisfy mating requirements to continue the species.

Your typical wild mouse, rat, quail or whatever is doing a lot more work to survive than any captive animal. Less food, much more running around, possibly finding food and then losing it to a more dominant animal.

So what I'm saying here is that when Gus Rentfro stated "It is almost impossible to underfeed a healthy boa." I think he was getting at this. Captivity, combined with high quality captive food sources will accelerate a boa's growth rate and if left unchecked, eventually lead to an early demise.

Reiz is correct about the individual snake having different requirements.

But he has experience with his animals. If you are new to boas, you probably can't read your animal as well as a person who has had a boa for 1, 2, 3 or more years.

If your boa is striking the glass every time you walk passed, you very well may need larger prey. However, larger prey must be accompanied by longer intervals between meals.

I actually like when my boa takes a shot at me. When that time comes, I know he is actively hunting every night and is ready eat. They almost always eat, but they are not actually "ready".

When people talk about boas being "boring and inactive" I'd wager many of those boas are "fat and happy". No need to forage, no need to move an inch. They are accustomed to receiving a meal on a regular schedule. It's something that I don't think is necessarily a good thing.

The boa has evolved over millions of years and they are so hard wired, that even in captivity they respond to the smallest of seasonal changes. Their evolution never included year round feeding, not weekly, not monthly, but more feast or famine and the strongest survive.

We need to fall somewhere in the middle. Captivity does have its benefits, but we as keepers need to choose wisely. I like seeing a post here where somebody has a 12 year old snake. That's starting to move toward a longer life. Gus Rentfro had a 30 year old boa that produced a litter. That's something special.

When I mentioned variables in my first post, they exist. Breeding female,,,,, breeding male, young neonates. All have different requirements.

If you know somebody that has a boa that is 20 or more years old and still extremely healthy, you may want to talk to them because they are doing something right.

As far as prey goes, I like to feed my almost 4 year old boa large rats, large quail, or 1 - 1.5 pound rabbits.

Depending on what I give and when, I will either stretch feed intervals, or downsize the prey animal.

When I see all waste is gone, I wait to see activity, and though I usually feed when he has become active, I know that he needs to be really hungry to take a rabbit. The old glass strike is the perfect time to try that out.

Bottom line, learn to read your snake, and also understand the species and the biology of the species.

All excellent points Gio! :gj:

I think too many folks read the care sheets as if they are engraved in stone.
We have to remember that they are guidelines which need to be flexible.

Anytime you are dealing with living things there will be exceptions to many "rules". For example, why do think they say doctors are PRACTICING medicine?

Don't be afraid to experiment an tweak things slowly and small increments, this is how we learn to be better caretakers. And don't be afraid to share success stories. This is one of the most polite forums on the Internet. No need to worry about members looking for a rope. :)

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...2c154ee2e5.jpg

If I go anything over a month on Rosey my 6'+ girl, she goes bananas and digs, shoves her hide all over, pulls down the light and RHP plug wires and pushes a lot. Vicky just stares out the front following any movement and Dottie does the same as Rosey, shoves her hides around, digs, tears down her silk vines and just an overall terror. Like others have said, start with the basic guideline and then adjust as needed. Just know that boas will play the "OMG you are starving me!!" card any chance they get. Both my gals are right there when I open the doors to change their water thinking rat god is feeding them again. Then they get all depressed and lay back down when its only my hand lol.

As others said, it totally depends on the individual and the age and whether or not you want to fast them.

I started out rather heavily overfeeding my first boa. I started out feeding him every 5 days until he was about 1-1.5 years iirc, and then from there I was feeding him weekly until he was 2.5 years old and the folks on this forum set me straight. lol I mostly fed really small meals, but there was a period in time where I was feeding grossly over-sized meals because I felt he wasn't getting enough food and I was too inexperienced to tell the bulges were far too large. It looked like there wasn't even a bulge to me then, and now looking back he looked like he was a giant inflated beach ball ready to explode. It got so bad he started refusing food until I cut back down to his regular-sized meals. When I started him on rabbits, I gave him two nearly 1 lb rabbits (he gets 1/2 lb or smaller rabbits now) within 2 weeks of each other, and he ended up gaining 1-2 pounds that took nearly a year to shed off - he got chubby just from those two rabbits, so yes just a couple of improper feedings can affect them. He's going to be turning 5 in August now, and his diet has changed dramatically. As a result of his feedings he was oversized and overweight. He reached 5'2" at 2 years old and 6' even at 3, even though he only started out at 2'7" after I had him a year. At his heaviest, he was nearly 10 lbs, now he's half a foot longer and barely over 9 lbs.

I went from feeding him weekly straight to feeding him every 4 weeks when I was told he was chubby and I needed to cut back on feeding (may have been 3 but pretty sure it was 4), and that spring I ended up fasting him and dropping temps to try to get him to shed some weight. There is a huge difference in a side by side comparison during that time. Since then, he's been fasted 3 months/90 days each winter. I usually start in November so he starts eating again in Feb/March, right before the weather starts warming up. He started out eating mainly 4-8 oz rabbits, but he got chubby quick on them even spacing out his feedings like I do and fasting him, so now I feed him a mix of 4-6 oz rabbits and large rats every 5 weeks. The first two feedings out of a fast I feed him every 4 weeks with rabbits and then switch to rats every 5 weeks until the last 1-2 feedings before his next fast and temp drop, where he'll get rabbits again, except every 5 weeks. He's 6.5' and just over 9 lbs. Even on this diet, he's a mostly lazy snake (compared to my other snakes - he comes out and treks all over his enclosure during the night and often lays out in the open during the day), and isn't food oriented unless there's actually food in front of his face. If he smells food, he gets excited and tracks movement, but won't strike 'til it's presented. I don't test him with the door open of course, but even if I'm moving in front of his enclosure drying off a rat or whatever he doesn't strike. lol Even right out of his fast, he doesn't get any more excited over food, although he squeezes a bit tighter when he actually grabs it. This past winter he got kinda frisky and left his first sperm plugs, so fasting and temp drops can really bring out the mating behavior in them. lol

Nymeria is my second boa, and I've had her almost a year. As with Cloud, I try to keep her prey size small, but since she's so much younger I allow for a larger bulge, but as she ages that bulge will need to be smaller and smaller. I started out feeding her mouse hoppers every 10 days, and I was feeding her every 7 days for a time, but now she's eating every 14 days since she's on weaned rats and a year old. She will be fed every 3 weeks by/around the time she turns 2 so she can be fed every 4-5 weeks when she's 3+ years, slowly spacing it out. I'll probably change that a bit when it comes time to get her ready to breed, though. I plan on feeding Crona similarly, unless he gives me a reason to feed him differently. Nymeria is a big girl so far it seems, at least compared to Crona. I got her at a month old and 80 grams, and Crona is 4 months and 82 grams, so she was a bit bigger than he is at that age. She's now a year old and roughly 250 grams and 31" as of the last time I measured her (she was 280-something grams but she hadn't pooped yet so she was probably 20-30 grams lighter than that roughly). Nymeria shows no signs of being food-oriented unless she smells food, just like Cloud.

Tirel dwarves Nymeria, even though she's almost a month younger (born in the same month but 3-4 weeks later). Tirel is around 400 grams and in the 3'-4' range, her breeder had her on smalls already. Because she's a bit big for her age, she's being fed every 2-3 weeks rather than just 2 weeks, and I'm currently determining whether or not I should step her down to weaned rats. She's not crazy big but she's definitely a decent size for her age, I didn't ask about her feeding schedule but I probably could at some point. She's a touchy snake but isn't food-oriented at all so far, she strikes readily but doesn't track movement even with rat smell in the air,. I am only limiting her food more than with Nymeria because of her size.

As you get used to caring for boas, you'll be able to use context clues to adjust your feeding, my boas are just examples. As has been stated in this thread: less food is healthier!

So now I'm wondering if I'm overfeeding Persephone...
She's almost 4 months old and I feed her 1 small rat every friday. I had learned from my 1st rtb that if they are not hungry, they won't eat. I'm now seeing that they are more like puppies and will continually eat? I hope I'm feeding her right. She starts to track on Thursday and the second she gets into position at feeding time it's over... Last week my boyfriend didn't know I had Fed her already and put a mouse in her cage that was meant for Hades (cali. Kingsnake) and she just ignored it, couldn't care less about it. I got it out and fed the king... So maybe she's like my last one?
.... Just would like reassurance she's eating okay or correction if the majority believes she's over fed...

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Originally Posted by Stehfahknee

So now I'm wondering if I'm overfeeding Persephone...
She's almost 4 months old and I feed her 1 small rat every friday. I had learned from my 1st rtb that if they are not hungry, they won't eat. I'm now seeing that they are more like puppies and will continually eat? I hope I'm feeding her right. She starts to track on Thursday and the second she gets into position at feeding time it's over... Last week my boyfriend didn't know I had Fed her already and put a mouse in her cage that was meant for Hades (cali. Kingsnake) and she just ignored it, couldn't care less about it. I got it out and fed the king... So maybe she's like my last one?
.... Just would like reassurance she's eating okay or correction if the majority believes she's over fed...

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Um.... yes... my 12 month old boas are on a smallish rat weanling and eat every 2 weeks. Unless by chance these are really super small "small rats", as not all suppliers use the same standard.

And boas will happily eat themselves to death.

4 months and on small rats???? You sure she's 4 months? Even for a yearling boa that's rather large, but at 4 months is insane. At 4 months she should still be small enough for mouse hoppers - pinky rats are the equivalent.

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I mean if she's a fast grower maybe small adult mice at most at that age, they generally weigh 13-18 grams unless the supplier is way off the standard. Small rats should be 45-80 grams, again, unless their smalls are way off.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stehfahknee

So now I'm wondering if I'm overfeeding Persephone...
She's almost 4 months old and I feed her 1 small rat every friday. I had learned from my 1st rtb that if they are not hungry, they won't eat. I'm now seeing that they are more like puppies and will continually eat? I hope I'm feeding her right. She starts to track on Thursday and the second she gets into position at feeding time it's over... Last week my boyfriend didn't know I had Fed her already and put a mouse in her cage that was meant for Hades (cali. Kingsnake) and she just ignored it, couldn't care less about it. I got it out and fed the king... So maybe she's like my last one?
.... Just would like reassurance she's eating okay or correction if the majority believes she's over fed...

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I'd drop it to every 10-14 days.

You will not "stunt" the growth of a boa by feeding conservatively. They are easily over fed and practically impossible to underfeed.

Every 10 days is a nice "schedule" but I'm not a firm believer in schedules.

As I've said before. Never feed until your boa is completely empty. Wait until it is active and hunting for food. A younger snake will eat, digest and eliminate faster than an older snake.

Larger prey items require longer intervals. You can mix things up and if you do go larger wait longer and then feed smaller. In nature there is no consistency. In captivity we control everything. Because the prey we feed is fattier than the natural prey we need to dial back. Because the conditions we keep are always ideal, we need to remember the whole eat/digest and eat again cycle is accelerated.

Studying some biology about the animal you keep will assist you with understanding all of this.

There is a complexity about this, but this is not rocket science either. Once you start to observe and learn the behavior of your specific animal, you will automatically recognize the signs.

The key is not to get caught up in the urge to feed your snake all of the time.

It is VERY hard to resist. I know this because I have a royal python that sometimes will only eat 3 times in a year.

Guess what?????? That snake will probably live 30 or more years because it is self regulating it's diet.

Boas tend to always eat so just remember to resist the urge and you will be doing your BC a favor.


I also just realized this is a 4 month old snake.

4 months and on small rats???? You sure she's 4 months? Even for a yearling boa that's rather large, but at 4 months is insane. At 4 months she should still be small enough for mouse hoppers - pinky rats are the equivalent.

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I would not feed small rats until a year old.

I know of BCC or now BC keepers that will not feed Surinam boas anything but mice for the first year.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stehfahknee

So now I'm wondering if I'm overfeeding Persephone...
She's almost 4 months old and I feed her 1 small rat every friday. I had learned from my 1st rtb that if they are not hungry, they won't eat. I'm now seeing that they are more like puppies and will continually eat? I hope I'm feeding her right. She starts to track on Thursday and the second she gets into position at feeding time it's over... Last week my boyfriend didn't know I had Fed her already and put a mouse in her cage that was meant for Hades (cali. Kingsnake) and she just ignored it, couldn't care less about it. I got it out and fed the king... So maybe she's like my last one?
.... Just would like reassurance she's eating okay or correction if the majority believes she's over fed...

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I would feed her once every 7-10 days until she is a year old. Then from 1-2 years old, I would feed every 2-3 weeks. Then from 3 years on, every 3 weeks to 1 month. It depends on the snake. Some eat more and do fine, some don't. Also males generally eat less and go longer without food where as females eat more and get fed sooner. Rosey my 6'+ girl just about tears her cage down if she has to wait over 3 weeks for food. Same with Vicky. If she isn't fed every 2-3 weeks, she goes bananas and will pretty much attack anything that moves lol.

As for size, a small rat for a 4 month old is way too big. I'm surprised she got it down and didn't puke it up. Rosey who is 3+ years old and 6'+ eats large rats and small rabbits. Vicky who is 4' and just over 2 years old eats small medium rats. At 4 months old, they were eating hopper mice and crawler rats( basically a fuzzy rat). Basically I didn't switch them over for a long time. I don't remember exactly when but you will know. When they have trouble constricting the food and can inhale it in about 1 min, and the food doesn't leave a small lump, then its time to upsize it.

Boas will always eat if they are healthy. Easiest way to know something is wrong is if your boa refuses a meal lol. Rosey hasn't refused a meal in over 3 years. Heck she has only refused 1 meal ever and Vicky has never refused a meal. She even sometimes tries to hit the front of the cage as I walk by with a rat for the BP and other boa. When they smell rats or rabbits, everyone goes on high alert and windshield wipes the front of the cages, whether they just finished a meal or are waiting for their turn. My poor beardie is in shock during this whole affair lol.

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Originally Posted by Sauzo

Easiest way to know something is wrong is if your boa refuses a meal lol.

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On very rare occasions I've had adult males miss a feeding or three because they were looking for a girlfriend.

But yeah, typically they're garbage disposals.

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Originally Posted by bcr229

Um.... yes... my 12 month old boas are on a smallish rat weanling and eat every 2 weeks. Unless by chance these are really super small "small rats", as not all suppliers use the same standard.

And boas will happily eat themselves to death.

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Okay, I'm going to try to switch her to frozen this friday, I was always told once a week until a year then go to every other week? The rats are about twice the size of a small adult mouse... she herself is about 2 feet right now in size...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sauzo

I would feed her once every 7-10 days until she is a year old. Then from 1-2 years old, I would feed every 2-3 weeks. Then from 3 years on, every 3 weeks to 1 month. It depends on the snake. Some eat more and do fine, some don't. Also males generally eat less and go longer without food where as females eat more and get fed sooner. Rosey my 6'+ girl just about tears her cage down if she has to wait over 3 weeks for food. Same with Vicky. If she isn't fed every 2-3 weeks, she goes bananas and will pretty much attack anything that moves lol.

As for size, a small rat for a 4 month old is way too big. I'm surprised she got it down and didn't puke it up. Rosey who is 3+ years old and 6'+ eats large rats and small rabbits. Vicky who is 4' and just over 2 years old eats small medium rats. At 4 months old, they were eating hopper mice and crawler rats( basically a fuzzy rat). Basically I didn't switch them over for a long time. I don't remember exactly when but you will know. When they have trouble constricting the food and can inhale it in about 1 min, and the food doesn't leave a small lump, then its time to upsize

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Yeah that's why I up sized from the adult mouse to small rat, I put it in her cage, turned to feed the kingsnake and her mouse was gone. Couldn't even tell she ate... and she
Was PISSED lol. When I went to the shop the next size up from the adult mouse was a small rat. Do you know of a frozen in between size? I'll try that if there is one.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stehfahknee

Okay, I'm going to try to switch her to frozen this friday, I was always told once a week until a year then go to every other week? The rats are about twice the size of a small adult mouse... she herself is about 2 feet right now in size...

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How...how big are your small rats? I'm picturing the average 46-80 gram small rat but that would be almost as big as the snake itself...At 2' mine might have been 100 grams at most so that's 46-80% of a 100 grams boa's weight. That's not even physically possible so I'm thinking either your small rats are exceptionally small or your boa is exceptionally large for it's age and isn't actually 2'.

At 2' chances are you shouldn't be feeding feeders over 15-20 grams. Honestly hoppers are probably appropriate and they're usually 7-12 grams. Weaned/small adult mice seem a bit large 13-18 grams if your boa is indeed 2'.

As Gio said I'd stick to mice, and I wouldn't switch to rats until it's eating jumbo mice. At 2' there's no way she's big enough. My sunglow is less than half a foot away from 3' (she's grown some so she could be inches away), and she's only just now been switched to weaned rats (the size under smalls).

Do you have any pictures of the snake, especially with some size reference?

Generally yes that's sufficient but even boas under a year can thrive on a 14 day schedule. If it were me, I'd definitely space the feedings out to 14 days if your boa is indeed 4 months and happens to be large enough for small rats.


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