Panda Pied...thinking out loud

So I was playing around on the WoB genetic calculator (seriously the amount of time I spend on that app is ridiculous) and found out that it would be possible, several years from now, for me to get some Panda Pieds (favorite morph!) I'd have to wait awhile since Suki my pied is less than a year old, and then there's the fact that I have to get my hands on a pair of black pastels, but the prospect is an exciting one!

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I'd say if your intent is to breed, then any kind of pied project is a good one! I LOVE just about any pied I have seen, and would have gotten one when I first got my snake - but they are all still out of my price range

Just be aware of the inherent risks of breeding for this. A Panda Pied is still a Super Black Pastel and runs the same risks.

Dave

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Originally Posted by AKA Dave

Just be aware of the inherent risks of breeding for this. A Panda Pied is still a Super Black Pastel and runs the same risks.

Dave

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^ this.

it's why a Panda Pied is a rare, $10,000 snake. the deformities common in the super form of the Black Pastel and Cinnamons turn-off alotta folks. adding a recessive gene (the Piebald), makes the odds of having a flawless Super Black Pastel or Cinnamon Pied even harder. i see alotta Black Pastel and Cinnamon het Pieds, some visual Pieds, not alotta of their Supers, and never any Pandas.

we are not saying u should not try for a Panda. just know, be prepared and have a plan for babies with deformities as a byproduct.

i myself might still try for it. i teeter on the should i or should i not regularly on this plan. so well see...


Edit: also to add, i hear that Justin Kobylka is cooking up some Suma Pieds - which is believed to be all white with black patterning. it is supposed to be a kink free Panda. so adding a Mahogany or its super form - Suma, might be a better breeding route and investment.

Pandas are high on my want list, but not wanting to do super black pastels/super cinnamon because the deformities. I don't want to wrestle with those ethics.

I still plan on pursuing the project. I like kobylka's project. I think the super mahogonies show promise. The pics I have seen of them, they do show a lot of bronze poking through the black though. I was thinking a black axanthic, super mahogony, pied would give the desired look...

Meh. That's a future me problem though. Right now my focus is acquiring a plain old pied male to go with the het pied girl I picked up.

Wanted to add:

I think markus jayne is working on an alternative panda. Super java pied. A bit of bronze poking through...

It's around the 9 minute mark of this snakebytes video
https://youtu.be/PmyWvLSQqqQ

I've wanted a panda pied since I saw the first one!

Would there be a way to make a panda pied looking snake using the axanthic gene? I've seen the lightning pieds, which are pretty cool looking, but was thinking there might be a another way using piebald, axanthic and maybe a third gene to come up with a similar effect? I've also always wanted a panda pied, but have decided to go another direction

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Originally Posted by wolfy-hound

I've wanted a panda pied since I saw the first one!

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same here, i remember thinking that was one of the sickest snakes that I've ever seen. which actually it is.:snake:

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Originally Posted by lawnchaircrisis

Would there be a way to make a panda pied looking snake using the axanthic gene? I've seen the lightning pieds, which are pretty cool looking, but was thinking there might be a another way using piebald, axanthic and maybe a third gene to come up with a similar effect? I've also always wanted a panda pied, but have decided to go another direction

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i don't know of any gene that would blackout a VPI or SK Axanthic. it makes browns black and grey scales other colors. i guess adding Axanthic Super Black Pastel or Super Cinny would work. :P maybe a really dark Black Axanthic would work - but that's a whole different line and would not be compatible with VPI or SK stuff.

also keep in mind an Axanthic Pied would be a double recessive – a double recessive Panda will be an entirely different ball game and I would imagine hitting the odds are even smaller.

i really think the name panda suits this morph well. beyond it's visual appearance, it really is rare.

I am convinced that when the suma pied hits the market, panda pieds will finally be outclassed. The suma pied and the suma cinny pied will have the same effect than ultramel had on caramel albinos: no kinking and esthetic more pleasing. Mark my words, mahogany will be a hotshot morph solely because of the pied combo!!!

God i gotta get myself some ultramels als mahoganys haha!

I'm also working on Suma BP and Suma Cinny Pieds. They are the blackest of the black in the Suma form. Then there are these.
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...psdriemp9p.jpg
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...pslhybbtxn.jpg

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Originally Posted by Brandon Osborne

I'm also working on Suma BP and Suma Cinny Pieds. They are the blackest of the black in the Suma form. Then there are these.
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...psdriemp9p.jpg
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...pslhybbtxn.jpg

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What are these lookers?

I'm also testing the theory of Enchi adding pattern to the Pied gene. I have 10 eggs cooking from Enchi Pewter het Pied X Pied. Hopefully I hit on the 3 gene Pied. If not, I will continue the project until I prove whether it will cause more pattern on the Pewter Pied.

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Originally Posted by Brandon Osborne

I'm also working on Suma BP and Suma Cinny Pieds. They are the blackest of the black in the Suma form. Then there are these.
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...psdriemp9p.jpg
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...pslhybbtxn.jpg

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Do you have pics of the project that you are working on.


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Originally Posted by voodoolamb

What are these lookers?

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Those are Urban Camos from Brandon Osborne. Absolutely beautiful animals. Last I knew there were some minor kinking issues they were encountering by the tail, though.

ETA: Whoops, just saw that this was posted by Brandon himself!

Wow way to forget you posted something! Thanks for all of the advise and conversation guys :D I'm still a long way off from having any one big enough to breed but it's fun to think about the possibilities. After doing some digging I don't know if I'll still try for the panda but we'll see. I might just get a super cinny for my champagne and make some gray matter!

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Originally Posted by PeanutButler

Those are Urban Camos from Brandon Osborne. Absolutely beautiful animals. Last I knew there were some minor kinking issues they were encountering by the tail, though.

ETA: Whoops, just saw that this was posted by Brandon himself!

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Correct. The top animal has grown out of it. It is barely noticeable even feeling for it. The other still has it but she is not quite as big either. I still believe the kinking issues are exactly whey there are still only a handful of Pandas after the project being around for almost 10 years.....and everyone working on it.

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Originally Posted by Kam

Do you have pics of the project that you are working on.


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Which project? I have a few. ;-)

Any of them. I am just living vicariously through you.


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Originally Posted by Kam

Any of them. I am just living vicariously through you.


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Well, these are the expected clutches this season. Most have laid but I'm still waiting on a few more.

Pewter Enchi het Pied X Pied 10 eggs

Toffino X Pied 5 eggs

Mojave Pied X Pied 8 eggs. 2.2 Mojo Pied 2.2 Pied

Killer Pied X Pewter Pied

Killer Pied X Pastel het Pied

DH Ghost Pied x DH Ghost Pied (X2) 6 eggs and waiting on the other to lay

Mojave Pied X Pastel het Pied 8 eggs

Urban Camo x Sandblast Pewter

Urban Camo X Pewter het Pied 5 eggs

Sugar YB X Fire 6 eggs

Sugar YB X Puma

Toffino X Toffino 5 eggs

Toffino X Albino 8 eggs

Leopard X Mojave Spider 7 eggs

VPI Axanthic Bee X Axanthic Pastel 7 eggs

Pastel Clown X Black Pastel het Clown 6 eggs

Banana Spider X Sugar Spider YB Due to lay

Banana het Pied X Sterling Pied Due to lay

Urban Camo X Pewter (original mother to the Urban Camo) 9 eggs

VPI Axanthic Bee X Het Axanthic Bee Due to lay

I'm still trying a few pairings but it isn't looking positive at this point.

Well you know...looks you are a busy person


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Originally Posted by Kam

Well you know...looks you are a busy person


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Sometimes a little too much.....

Is that a good problem to have


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