Boa Cage Dimensions-- Climbing?

I am getting ready to upgrade my Boa to a larger size home. She's 5 ft long, she's a Hog Island, so she's done with the majority of her growing and is definitely an adult.

I was considering getting something from Boaphile or some other such reptile cage maker, maybe Vision I'm not sure YET.

My questions are these

1. What is a decent size to increase to? I was thinking 4'L x 2' W x 1.5 ft H (maybe 2')

2. I know you can keep larger boas in containers w/out basking shelves or even branches to climb on. What do you guys do? Would you provide your boa with a taller setup so they can use their arboreal abilities?

3. For doors, at the moment I'm thinking of going with two doors, maybe sliding, or front opening (like an ExoTerra), as opposed to a single door the length of the container. I know this is personal preference, but I'd like to see what people do and why, perhaps there are things I haven't considered w/those 3 door styles, ie pros/cons.

Thanks!

The island species of boa like you have are known to climb rather frequently. All boa constrictors are semi arboreal and will display this behavior when provided housing that allows them to do so.

18" tall is probably a good place to start. I have my 6 foot male Colombian BC in a cage that is 48" x 30" x (20" tall).

The cage is from Constrictors NW (Pro-Line). It is a single drop door and the cage is HDPE plastic.

http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/y...a/IMG_2658.jpg

If these snakes are not overfed, they will become quite active at night and I catch my fella out climbing in the warmer months.

More often than not, he will feed from his perched area.

http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/y...a/IMG_2595.jpg


http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/y...a/IMG_2596.jpg


If you enjoy watching your snake eat, it is quite interesting to see them do it from the air.

This rabbit never touched the ground after he started eating.
http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/y...a/IMG_2591.jpg

If I could do it over, I'd have gone 24" tall, but 20 is ample for this snake, and because the cage is a big 30" deep the heating may have been a bit tougher but I really don't think 4 more inches of ceiling would be an issue for that.


This cage is for a 6+ foot carpet python. It is 48" x 24" x 24".

This would be a nice size for your snake if it is fully grown. Same brand just not as deep and 4" taller.

http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/y...a/IMG_2638.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gio

The island species of boa like you have are known to climb rather frequently. All boa constrictors are semi arboreal and will display this behavior when provided housing that allows them to do so.

18" tall is probably a good place to start. I have my 6 foot male Colombian BC in a cage that is 48" x 30" x (20" tall).

The cage is from Constrictors NW (Pro-Line). It is a single drop door and the cage is HDPE plastic.

http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/y...a/IMG_2658.jpg

If these snakes are not overfed, they will become quite active at night and I catch my fella out climbing in the warmer months.

More often than not, he will feed from his perched area.

http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/y...a/IMG_2595.jpg


http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/y...a/IMG_2596.jpg


If you enjoy watching your snake eat, it is quite interesting to see them do it from the air.

This rabbit never touched the ground after he started eating.
http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/y...a/IMG_2591.jpg

If I could do it over, I'd have gone 24" tall, but 20 is ample for this snake, and because the cage is a big 30" deep the heating may have been a bit tougher but I really don't think 4 more inches of ceiling would be an issue for that.


This cage is for a 6+ foot carpet python. It is 48" x 24" x 24".

This would be a nice size for your snake if it is fully grown. Same brand just not as deep and 4" taller.

http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/y...a/IMG_2638.jpg

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I really appreciate your input.

What made you go with this company, how are you heating it. IF you are using a RHP. Any issues w/your snake getting thermal burns or TRYING to wrap around it? I've seen them mounted from the cage ceiling as opposed to having the RHP hot side flush w/the cage ceiling. What challenges did you face in heating them and how did you fix them?

Yeah I'd like to foster her arboreal behavior. I do when I take her out all the time. I give her things to climb on, flex the muscles etc and I love watching her do so.

What made you go with 1 door as opposed to 2? I'd think 2 doors would be better as it would be easier to feed, and also easier to put mine at least back giving her less chance to "escape" as I put her back in.


I honestly didn't think that 18-24" in height would foster arboreal behavior w/a snake of that size. I'm surprised. I'm thinking of giving her a basking shelf, though maybe w/a pole as you have, it's not necessary?

Why did you go w/the ProLine?

I like AP Plastics for the moment because the containers can be broken down, so it's easier to move them when one moves to a new destination.

I appreciate the pics a lot.:D This has given me some thoughts.

The one thing that has surprised me when visiting AP and Boaphile is for lighting they have fluorescent lighting, I'm surprised they haven't offered LEDs yet.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by viper69

I really appreciate your input.

What made you go with this company, how are you heating it. IF you are using a RHP. Any issues w/your snake getting thermal burns or TRYING to wrap around it? I've seen them mounted from the cage ceiling as opposed to having the RHP hot side flush w/the cage ceiling. What challenges did you face in heating them and how did you fix them?


I went with Pro-Line because of price and the HDPE plastic they use. Ed Lilley is also a very honest/straight up guy.

I use RHPs alone. They are mounted to the top of the cage. I've not had any challenges heating the cage and I've not had to fix a thing.

The snake has never tried to wrap around the panel. I do make sure the perches are low enough directly underneath the panel to keep the snakes from being too close to it.

I'm not sure what you mean by flush with the ceiling on the hot side VS mounted from the ceiling.

They are designed to radiate heat downwards. You should mount them at the top of the cage and depending on the manufacturer you by from, they may help you with placement.

I have Pro-Products panels.


Yeah I'd like to foster her arboreal behavior. I do when I take her out all the time. I give her things to climb on, flex the muscles etc and I love watching her do so.

I 100% agree!

What made you go with 1 door as opposed to 2? I'd think 2 doors would be better as it would be easier to feed, and also easier to put mine at least back giving her less chance to "escape" as I put her back in.


I went with one door simply because that is how the cages are built. However, the ease of cleaning, moving cage decor in and out, and taking the snake out is also much easier.

Feeding is not an issue and I have only had him pop out right at me twice. I'm able to read this behavior and have not had problems since. I can also easily keep the door opening just large enough for the prey item to be presented.


I honestly didn't think that 18-24" in height would foster arboreal behavior w/a snake of that size. I'm surprised. I'm thinking of giving her a basking shelf, though maybe w/a pole as you have, it's not necessary?


It is adequate in my situation. Heating something much over what I have would not be the easiest, and I'm stacking the cages. I have a 14" tall on top of my 20" tall cage. Room is simply a limiting factor. If you have the space and have the proper climate, I'd say go as tall has you can go within reason.

Why did you go w/the ProLine?

I mentioned this above, but at the time I ordered my first cage I found the price and material to be the best. The prices are a bit higher now, but they INCLUDE shipping.
I still feel HDPE plastic is the best out there. But I also would have no issue getting a nice cage from AP.


I like AP Plastics for the moment because the containers can be broken down, so it's easier to move them when one moves to a new destination.

Same with Pro-Line. I probably would keep them together though if we were to move.

I appreciate the pics a lot.:D This has given me some thoughts.

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I'm glad I could help!



http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/y...a/IMG_2656.jpg

http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/y...a/IMG_2601.jpg


With carpets being even more arboreal, the show never ends if you give them some space.

http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/y...a/IMG_2642.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by viper69

The one thing that has surprised me when visiting AP and Boaphile is for lighting they have fluorescent lighting, I'm surprised they haven't offered LEDs yet.

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AP has LED lights if you ask them.

LED lights are easy to mount if you want to buy your own.

Mine are from Menards and I put them in myself.

I also purchased Arcadia Moon Light LED lights for night viewing.

If you assemble your cage from Pro-Line or AP, you can customize it during your setup.

GIO, i had to put my phone down and boot up my computer to get a better look at those pics. Beutiful work! what is the source of blue light?
I am in the mental pre-visualisation planning stage (day-dreaming) of a new enclosure and have been grappling with dimensions. I want to go tall b/c i know my boa likes to climb and perch but do you think there is such a thing as too tall? I'm thinking 24" for my little dwarf boa, and 36" for a future full-size boa. With appropriate climbing structures, do you think they would actually use that space? I'm happy to build it, but i don't want a big empty box of fake plants with my snake just chilling at ground level.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dkatz4

GIO, i had to put my phone down and boot up my computer to get a better look at those pics. Beutiful work! what is the source of blue light?
I am in the mental pre-visualisation planning stage (day-dreaming) of a new enclosure and have been grappling with dimensions. I want to go tall b/c i know my boa likes to climb and perch but do you think there is such a thing as too tall? I'm thinking 24" for my little dwarf boa, and 36" for a future full-size boa. With appropriate climbing structures, do you think they would actually use that space? I'm happy to build it, but i don't want a big empty box of fake plants with my snake just chilling at ground level.

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In the wild B.c.i's are found over 36" above ground. I cannot speak for your dwarf boa, what locality is it? On some level you never know what they will like or dislike ultimately. I've done setups for some pets that I thought they would take to, and ended up the pets did something completely different. I know a B.c.i (non-dwarf) would use upwards of 6 ft of vertical climbing space as I have seen that personally.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gio

[/B] I'm glad I could help!



http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/y...a/IMG_2656.jpg




With carpets being even more arboreal, the show never ends if you give them some space.

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Much appreciated the info provided including the pics, I'm going to include this maker as a possibility now! I love your animals, gorgeous.

You have given me some additional considerations that I had not initially considered.

How did you determine the proper distance between the RHP and basking perch before buying the cage?

What I meant by RHP being flush:


I've seen the RHPs mounted into the cage's ceiling, and thus it protrudes downward. I haven't seen a setup yet where the RHP is mounted in such a way that the RHP's panel is flush w/the cage's ceiling, that is it's even/level with the plane of the ceiling. Hmm. LIKE fluorescent lights in the ceiling of an office building, they don't typical protrude out of the ceiling, the are recessed! That's the word I was looking for.


How bright are the Arcadia lights? That is, have you felt your animals thought they were too bright and needed a dimmer? It's so hard to tell w/pics on the internet instead of in person!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by viper69

In the wild B.c.i's are found over 36" above ground. I cannot speak for your dwarf boa, what locality is it? On some level you never know what they will like or dislike ultimately. I've done setups for some pets that I thought they would take to, and ended up the pets did something completely different. I know a B.c.i (non-dwarf) would use upwards of 6 ft of vertical climbing space as I have seen that personally.

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Well the locality of my CA is muddled; I asked the breeder and she told me that she had imported his parents from different sources and only for size and pattern (my dude was the humble "normal" of the litter) so the only accurate description is just Central American. When i take him out he loves crawling along railings and going straight up my floor lamp (see below), so ideally i want to build him both a vertical "tree" and a horizontal "branch".


(Lamp was unplugged)

https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...19381731_o.jpg

I would go with AP T8 all the way. They are by far the most reasonably priced and quality cages you will find. Super easy to put together, and their customer service is known to be great. I personally do not give climbing space to my snakes, but that is also a consequence of the number of animals that i have. I simply do not have the space to warrant climbing space. All my boas are happy and healthy without it. Others on here like you have seen allow their animals to climb, which is great, just not my system.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dkatz4

Well the locality of my CA is muddled; I asked the breeder and she told me that she had imported his parents from different sources and only for size and pattern (my dude was the humble "normal" of the litter) so the only accurate description is just Central American. When i take him out he loves crawling along railings and going straight up my floor lamp (see below), so ideally i want to build him both a vertical "tree" and a horizontal "branch".


(Lamp was unplugged)

https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...19381731_o.jpg

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beautiful animal, but your breeder did you no help in my opinion. Breeding solely based on phenotypes without actually knowing the locality is a terrible thing to do as it dilutes the gene pool into unknowns. that doesn't help truly serious owners who would like to breed at some point.
this is not your fault mind you.

I let mine climb up an unplugged lamp as well. It's amazing to see how adept they are at climbing compared to my BP HAH

Appreciate the input. Agreed they will live fine without climbing. I have the space and would like to allow for climbing. I'm just surprised some specimens will exhibit climbing as GIOs did in a shorter height than I expected, very cool I think. Just shows you how much I know about being a snake! :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by viper69

beautiful animal, but your breeder did you no help in my opinion. Breeding solely based on phenotypes without actually knowing the locality is a terrible thing to do as it dilutes the gene pool into unknowns. that doesn't help truly serious owners who would like to breed at some point.
this is not your fault mind you.

I let mine climb up an unplugged lamp as well. It's amazing to see how adept they are at climbing compared to my BP HAH

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Keep in mind that just because a breeder declares the locality of a boa to be such, doesnt mean it is even near correct. Even if it is a true line bred animal, and the breeder himself had the first captive generation, there is still a major shadow of a doubt as to the true origins. Importation of boas from CA, and SA is sloppy at best. We see this all the time with BCCs. Those supposedly from Ghana are actually from Suriname and vice versa. Often populations are mixed together and a tag is just slapped on the crate before it reaches our shores. Personally I would rather go by what I see, and the traits I can distinguish, rather than what some breeder told me, even if they had the best intentions.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JoshSloane

Keep in mind that just because a breeder declares the locality of a boa to be such, doesnt mean it is even near correct. Even if it is a true line bred animal, and the breeder himself had the first captive generation, there is still a major shadow of a doubt as to the true origins. Importation of boas from CA, and SA is sloppy at best. We see this all the time with BCCs. Those supposedly from Ghana are actually from Suriname and vice versa. Often populations are mixed together and a tag is just slapped on the crate before it reaches our shores. Personally I would rather go by what I see, and the traits I can distinguish, rather than what some breeder told me, even if they had the best intentions.

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I read an article once (The veracity of which i am in no position to confirm) that claimed that Surinam and Guyana are, for the most part, just marketing terms since the two countries share a border and therefore there is no reason boas from either would be genetically distinct from the other. The theory was that the exceptionally beutiful ones from the cheaper market locale were sold as being from the more expensive (i forget which is which). Its seems logical, although the border is marked by a pretty big river, so i feel like there may be geographically isolated populations after all. Seems hard scientific field work would be necessary to prove or disprove any of that. Another thread i was reading today (you all may have been contributors?) mentioned that DNA identification may soon become more accessible, which would really clear up most doubts for those breeders who utilized it.

But we were talking about cage height right?? :rolleye2:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by viper69

beautiful animal, but your breeder did you no help in my opinion. Breeding solely based on phenotypes without actually knowing the locality is a terrible thing to do as it dilutes the gene pool into unknowns. that doesn't help truly serious owners who would like to breed at some point.
this is not your fault mind you.

I let mine climb up an unplugged lamp as well. It's amazing to see how adept they are at climbing compared to my BP HAH

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I do think he's a little beauty! I need to update my gallery one of these days, or if i'm feeling really indulgent i might just start a photo thread. Though not as informative as some of the posts, i love looking at everybody's pictures. (one of my favorites below)
and i feel like climbing must be "fun" for them, or satisfying, or whatever they feel - i try to let mine explore, but he's so small that there are lots of places he can get into from which i could not get him out.

https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...31664526_o.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dkatz4

GIO, i had to put my phone down and boot up my computer to get a better look at those pics. Beutiful work! what is the source of blue light?
I am in the mental pre-visualisation planning stage (day-dreaming) of a new enclosure and have been grappling with dimensions. I want to go tall b/c i know my boa likes to climb and perch but do you think there is such a thing as too tall? I'm thinking 24" for my little dwarf boa, and 36" for a future full-size boa. With appropriate climbing structures, do you think they would actually use that space? I'm happy to build it, but i don't want a big empty box of fake plants with my snake just chilling at ground level.

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I have found a lot of this depends on how you feed your boa.

There are some variables, but when it comes down to it, a properly fed BC should become active, climb, forage and may search for ambush areas within the cage. These behaviors are nothing out of the ordinary and in the wild even the big ones will head up into the trees. There is a good YouTube video of a BC taking a howler monkey up rather high in the canopy.

In my situation, I have found my BC will NOT show much activity if food is always present, always the same size and always given on a set schedule.

I don't have a "true schedule" but things seem to be working out where feedings are monthly depending on the prey size of the previous meal. I last fed my BC on April 16th. In the past 2 weeks, he has been out and about nightly up on his perches with his head facing the floor of the cage.

He isn't starving, as its nearly impossible to starve a BC, actually he isn't overly hungry just yet. I'm planning to feed next weekend and am deciding if I will use a smaller prey item like a quail or rat or use a rabbit.

Anyhow, that's off topic a bit, however the point to this is, I feel most BCs will use the options provided to them and display the natural behaviors they would show in the wild if there is a reason or two for them to move.

We are dealing with animals that are hardwired to survive very long periods without food. Year round feeding, constantly digesting, passing and starting the cycle all over isn't part of their evolution. With that in mind, if you make them "Fat and Happy" you will probably see a snake that has no reason to move.

Obviously other things can factor in here, but IMO if you build a useable, 3 foot tall cage and feed your BC the way Vincent Russo and Gus Rentfro advocate, I would expect to see your snake using the space.

When I want to be entertained by my BC, I start watching him when he TELLS me its time to eat!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by viper69

Much appreciated the info provided including the pics, I'm going to include this maker as a possibility now! I love your animals, gorgeous.

You have given me some additional considerations that I had not initially considered.

How did you determine the proper distance between the RHP and basking perch before buying the cage?


I had no idea. I built it and adjusted the perches as I saw fit. I lowered them at one point to keep him further from the panel, and I also added my real branches. I update and upgrade if I think I have a new or better idea.

What I meant by RHP being flush:


I've seen the RHPs mounted into the cage's ceiling, and thus it protrudes downward. I haven't seen a setup yet where the RHP is mounted in such a way that the RHP's panel is flush w/the cage's ceiling, that is it's even/level with the plane of the ceiling. Hmm. LIKE fluorescent lights in the ceiling of an office building, they don't typical protrude out of the ceiling, the are recessed! That's the word I was looking for.

OK, I see what you meant about "flush". It sounds good, but if you ever want to stack a cage that would be an issue. I'm also not sure if the manufacturer of the RHP would recommend it. Maybe look into it.


How bright are the Arcadia lights? That is, have you felt your animals thought they were too bright and needed a dimmer? It's so hard to tell w/pics on the internet instead of in person!


Not as bright as they appear in my photos. It is pretty mellow moon light. I have an open shutter on the camera so people can see into the cages when I snap those.

Maybe this helps but I doubt it.

http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/y...a/DSC01281.jpg

I really like the lights.

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I think if you want to make a display you are on the right track.

Keep in mind, I'm showing you my system and as Josh stated and I'll agree with that statement; There are MANY ways of doing this.

If you have a big collection, or need an efficiency system, my gig is not what you'd want. I have 3 snakes and all are in display cages. I could maybe deal with one more but after that cleaning and looking for space in the room would cause issues.

Pro-Line and AP are excellent choices. I prefer HDPE plastic and a single drop door. I can get my BIG branches and perches in and out quickly, use a dust pan and hand broom to scoop and dump old substrate and I can shop vac the whole thing out easily.

Prices are not vastly different when you factor in shipping. AP T-8 may be a bit less for a 12" cage, but you'll get 14" with the Pro-Line and shipping is included. It may be a closer comparison with the T-10.

Both are just fine IMO.

Think that should cover it.

Have fun with it. That's what the hobby is all about!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JoshSloane

Keep in mind that just because a breeder declares the locality of a boa to be such, doesnt mean it is even near correct. Even if it is a true line bred animal, and the breeder himself had the first captive generation, there is still a major shadow of a doubt as to the true origins. Importation of boas from CA, and SA is sloppy at best. We see this all the time with BCCs. Those supposedly from Ghana are actually from Suriname and vice versa. Often populations are mixed together and a tag is just slapped on the crate before it reaches our shores. Personally I would rather go by what I see, and the traits I can distinguish, rather than what some breeder told me, even if they had the best intentions.

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Trust me I know. I have quite a few other exotics, the type that are far less defined as a hobby and many cases the taxonomy is unknown, unlike our snakes. We have specimens where all we know is the locality (assuming the paper work is accurate!!) and we never know the species in those cases, if we are lucky the genus. In some cases we have specimens where not even the genus is known, in fact, all we know is that it's an animal basically. No taxonomy at all.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gio

If you have a big collection, or need an efficiency system, my gig is not what you'd want. I have 3 snakes and all are in display cages. I could maybe deal with one more but after that cleaning and looking for space in the room would cause issues.

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Thanks Gio. I have exactly 3 snakes. The above quote of yours is exactly how I feel and why I stopped at 3. If I get one more it will likely be an Amazon Basin morph.

Are you using one Arcadia light per cage? I appreciate that pic. I looked up some other images/videos and it appears they give off like that is about as intense as the small watt Moonlight bulbs we often see, ie not as bright as typical white light LEDs I have some blue LEDs, but they are computer lights and they are super bright.

Thanks for pointing out the stacking issue I would run into if the RHP was flush. I had overlooked that and will not do it, as I will likely stack another on top at some point.

I'm pretty sure I'm going with C. Northwest after listening to you now.