Why everybody wants to Breed?!

Why everytime i come to the forum there's a thread of people saying that they got their first ball python and they want to know which morph should they get next for breeding.

Is it because they think they are going to make big money selling the offspring?
Is it because they want to try how it feels?
why?

I want to see how it feels to get quality and pretty ball pythons!
Dont care that much on how much i can make.
My first breeding is still 2 years away or morev since my bp is a 7 month old girl so plenty of time XD

Because pippers are cute?

FWIW I have about 30 of them at the moment but I only plan on pairing 3-4 females this season.

because I enjoy it.

I find it as a challenge and sort of a gamble/odds on the genes. I think I'll only do one pairing every year or every other year. Plus it's cheaper to get the high end morph I'd like to keep forever.

Im not talking about the people who has been breeding for years
Im talking about the people that is barely starting this hobby!

Well, I'm just getting into ball pythons, and yes I am picking my snakes with possible breeding plans in the future.

Why? Because I am looking for a hobby. I have always loved animal husbandry. I grew up in farm country and have been breeding and raising various animals since I was 6. Everything from rabbits and chickens, to horses and goats, all the way to bearded dragons and tarantulas.
I love the process of pairing parents and the rush of hitting the odds for that right genetic combination in the off spring.

I had to give up breeding and raising animals for several years while I was living in apartments. I'm in my own house now but it is in the suburbs. I also work from home on the phone. So I needed something quiet, that could be left in my spare bedroom. Snakes seem to fit the bill. I worked in a pet store for years and cared for all the snakes there. The balls were my favorite.

I have no intention of making big money in this. I'm choosing morphs that I like. My goals are to produce healthy snakes that look awesome from hatchling to adult. I am planning to work mostly with recessive gene combos because A.) I like them - What snake can't be improved with a bit of pied or some clown ;) and B.)by the very nature of recessive genes, they do tend to hold their value better. Now that last part is less to do with me making money and more to do with me being able to find good homes for the offspring I produce. A $400 - $500 snake is less of an impulse purchase then a $50 snake. Less likely to be neglected.

On a side note, along side the snakes I am also getting back into Ts. Which incidentally I DID make good money on 15 or so years ago. I am NOT however looking to make a profit on them either this time around. I am selecting a handful of harder to breed species that are threatened in the wild and popular in the hobby. I want to help relieve the pressure on wild populations of those guys. So breeding for conservation :) plus I like me a good challenge!

Most do it for enjoyment, some do it to make combos that they like that they can't necessarily afford, etc.

Thats what i was thinking.
I dont blame them i always have breeding plans just because i wanted to produce the cool morphs which most of the time are the non affordable ones

I was just curious if some people were wanting to breed for profit

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fLako0aGuiiLaR

Im not talking about the people who has been breeding for years
Im talking about the people that is barely starting this hobby!

---

Every breeder started with one, and some with plans of breeding from the start.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MidSouthMorphs

Every breeder started with one, and some with plans of breeding from the start.

---

Im asking because i was wondering if people wants to breed for a profit!
Im not trying to be rude or anything,
I know they can do whatever they want with their collection!

I started to breed because I could not afford a 10K Pied and had to settle for a $1200 het pair (obviously it was a while ago), I was hooked with my first clutch.

I owned a pet and than did a lot of research to achieve my goal and I was ready when I decided to attempt breeding, I had envisioned all the possible issues that could happen along the way and what to do should they arise, those days sadly some people get in over their head, do not do any research, don't even know what to breed or even to buy It's not new though there will always be a few people like that and you will often see them having a collection sale a few years down the road and if that is the case they were breeding for the wrong reasons and did not have the necessary passion.

If you want to breed but ask people what you should buy, IMO you are doing it wrong already.

My kids Alcantara to breed because they are fascinated by the possibilities and interested in how genes work. They also want to show others what great pets they can be. We already have a waiting list of people wanting our babies as pets when we finally get lucky and produce them.
We know we will never make any money at this but if we can come close to breaking even we are doing good. Either way the experience is priceless.

i started buying up BPs in mid 2014, and will hatch out my first clutches this year.

i want to be able to create living art. making some money while doing so is just an added bonus.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deborah

I started to breed because I could not afford a 10K Pied and had to settle for a $1200 het pair (obviously it was a while ago), I was hooked with my first clutch.

I owned a pet and than did a lot of research to achieve my goal and I was ready when I decided to attempt breeding, I had envisioned all the possible issues that could happen along the way and what to do should they arise, those days sadly some people get in over their head, do not do any research, don't even know what to breed or even to buy It's not new though there will always be a few people like that and you will often see them having a collection sale a few years down the road and if that is the case they were breeding for the wrong reasons and did not have the necessary passion.

If you want to breed but ask people what you should buy, IMO you are doing it wrong already.

---

That's a point i wanted to discuss, there are people that doesnt even know the basics of ball python care and they want to breed but they dont know nothing about genetics and they ask people what morph should they buy for breeding.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fLako0aGuiiLaR

That's a point i wanted to discuss, there are people that doesnt even know the basics of ball python care and they want to breed but they dont know nothing about genetics and they ask people what morph should they buy for breeding.

---

We initially asked this question. Our reason was to ensure we were creating creatures that had value rather than saturating the market with unwanted animals. Genetic calculators are nice but getting opinions of those in the business already is invaluable.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deborah

I started to breed because I could not afford a 10K Pied and had to settle for a $1200 het pair (obviously it was a while ago), I was hooked with my first clutch.

I owned a pet and than did a lot of research to achieve my goal and I was ready when I decided to attempt breeding, I had envisioned all the possible issues that could happen along the way and what to do should they arise, those days sadly some people get in over their head, do not do any research, don't even know what to breed or even to buy It's not new though there will always be a few people like that and you will often see them having a collection sale a few years down the road and if that is the case they were breeding for the wrong reasons and did not have the necessary passion.

If you want to breed but ask people what you should buy, IMO you are doing it wrong already.

---

I remember those days of daydreaming of Pieds. Bought my first het pied pair for $1150 shipped. Back when I could hardly afford a Spider lol.

Get that cash money. Ball pythons are so lucrative these days haha

I did not pick my first BP's because I planned on breeding them. I really liked my Kingsnake, and wanted to see how well I'd like a python. My first two were a Black Widow male and a Super Pastel female. However, I originally got my Kingsnakes with the intention of breeding them, for a very specific purpose... and my female had an internal defect which eventually cost her life. Since then, I've discovered a great fondness for the BP's, as well as my surviving kingsnake, and particularly for some of the 'basic'(?) morphs - Fire, Yellowbelly, Pastel primarily. I was delighted to get my Ultrafly girl - Super pastel, fire and yellowbelly all in one! Now I just need a Super Fire yellowbelly pastel and an Ivory fire pastel... someday...

Anyway, the reason I originally planned on breeding snakes, and still do, is that this area has a horrible level of anti-snake prejudice. I've never even SEEN a rattlesnake since moving here, but people go out of their way to kill the poor bullsnakes, because 'the only good snake is a dead snake'. So after speaking with some of the local schools, and getting a strong response of interest, I'll be breeding eventually to try and make beautiful snakes - so that I can donate them to schools in the area for education on snakes, genetic mutations, and so that the kids can see that snakes are pretty amazing creatures. Not something to be exterminated. With a contract, of course - I get to go check on the snakes to make sure they're being taken care of, and if the school doesn't want them any more, I get them back.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by stickyalvinroll

Get that cash money. Ball pythons are so lucrative these days haha

---

Lol indeed. People who have that mindset are usually quick to sell off their collections.

Same reason the shelters are full of dogs and cats. Everyone loves their pets and thinks the whole world should enjoy them too. Some are greedy, some have serious goals, most are just producing more animals because they can.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fLako0aGuiiLaR

Im not talking about the people who has been breeding for years
Im talking about the people that is barely starting this hobby!

---

Everyone starts somewhere, just cause some of you breeders have been breeding for years doesnt mean you want to breed for a better reason than someone that just started.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by highqualityballz

Everyone starts somewhere, just cause some of you breeders have been breeding for years doesnt mean you want to breed for a better reason than someone that just started.

---

No one said that. The point is everyone thinks there is $$$ to be made hand over fist. Many people come here just seeing and thinking that. I will be the first to admit that I had some of the same thoughts in the beginning but then I started looking at many of the morphs and realized I could not afford them so to get what I wanted I had to plan on more time and less cash to make or trade what I wanted.
I got my Champaign a couple years ago for a little over a $100......... They were WAYYYYYY over that when I got started.



The more entertaining shadow of this topic are the ones that come and ask a couple questions but that's it. They don't answer questions asked of them that may help.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by highqualityballz

Everyone starts somewhere, just cause some of you breeders have been breeding for years doesnt mean you want to breed for a better reason than someone that just started.

---

Im not saying that they shouldnt breed, everyone is free to do whatever they want to do with their collection.
Im saying that some people should do some research before breeding their animals
When i started i spend months researching everything about BPs and after that i started breeding because i was prepared and informed

The only people in the business making real money are the big time breeders (NERD, Wilbanks, Kobylka etc), the rodent suppliers and equipment manufacturers. The amount of money I've spent in the past 5 years is crazy [emoji23] well to be honest, I don't even want to add it all up ;)

As for me breeding, I want to feel the accomplishment of producing a combo I want myself rather than go out and buy it, I know I'm not going to make a profit, hell, I'm not even going to break even, but that's not even on my mind


Find me on Facebook :)
https://www.facebook.com/Sunsetconstrictors/

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jamiesniper

The only people in the business making real money are the big time breeders (NERD, Wilbanks, Kobylka etc), the rodent suppliers and equipment manufacturers. The amount of money I've spent in the past 5 years is crazy [emoji23] well to be honest, I don't even want to add it all up ;)

As for me breeding, I want to feel the accomplishment of producing a combo I want myself rather than go out and buy it, I know I'm not going to make a profit, hell, I'm not even going to break even, but that's not even on my mind


Find me on Facebook :)
https://www.facebook.com/Sunsetconstrictors/

---

how do you define real money? Making excess of 6-7 figure a year?

asking because I do know some small time breeder (in comparison to the big guys say NERD) that is able to provide for their family doing this full time. Now they might not be billionaires but being able to quit your full time job to do this imo is real money. In fact anytime you are turning any kind of profit Is it not real money? Are you saying that impossible with good planning and dedication and good business sense?

There are people on this board that are able to live off of breeding I'm sure.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by threezero

how do you define real money? Making excess of 6-7 figure a year?

asking because I do know some small time breeder (in comparison to the big guys say NERD) that is able to provide for their family doing this full time. Now they might not be billionaires but being able to quit your full time job to do this imo is real money. In fact anytime you are turning any kind of profit Is it not real money? Are you saying that impossible with good planning and dedication and good business sense?

There are people on this board that are able to live off of breeding I'm sure.

---

if i could manage to hit $50k a year selling reptiles, i'd be elated.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by se7en

if i could manage to hit $50k a year selling reptiles, i'd be elated.

---

The day i sell a 3,000 snake ill probably die of enjoyment!

i want to be able to breed reptiles and at least do slightly better than pay all my bills.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by se7en

i want to be able to breed reptiles and at least do slightly better than pay all my bills.

---

Thats what everybody of us is hoping for but unfortunately no all can achieve tha goal! :/

I'm getting into breeding ball pythons because number 1: it's a niche market and number 2: you can make quite a bit of money doing it if you do it right. Just go to NARBC and look at some of the display tables. People that started with cheap snakes have a whole table full of $100-$300 snakes. People that invested more heavily up front have $400 - $8,000 plus snakes (some ball pythons I've seen for as much as $50,000 - the Stormtrooper, or $125,000 - scaleless). Typically the more you spend the more you will make, keeping in mind that the values of whatever you buy will drop significantly by the time you breed and are ready to sell, assuming you buy baby snakes. Of course everyone is buying breeding and selling so it comes down to supply and demand. I spend hours and hours looking at genetics and what has been produced already and shoot for that one of a kind snake that no one has ever seen before. And if you are lucky you will come up with a new morph that is in high demand that could change the whole ball python industry, like the scaleless and pieds did in my opinion.

I have another niche market that I'm into and love to breed them like crazy: Black Angus cattle! I invested about $50,000 and now my 'calf crop' is growing my herd. Also found out that I make more money selling hay than breeding cattle LOL. Who knows what will be the money maker once you get into a niche market, for snakes it may be that selling live rodents brings in the most money. I have about $8,000 in the snake business right now, several snakes cost me over $1,000 each. Hoping to make a good return on most. The more money you make in a 'hobby' the more you can reinvest in that hobby for better racks, thermostats, supplies, employees, etc... For cattle the overhead is ridiculous, tractors, fence panels, feeders, trucks, trailers, etc... the list goes on and on... If I had a few million bucks I could invest in a real nice cattle ranch and work myself to death LOL.

With all that said, you have to have an extreme passion for working with the animals that you choose, otherwise you will hate it and be miserable even if you are making good money. I'd say that having passion for a breeding project is #1.

I also strongly disagree with the dog shelter argument. Since dogs don't live past about 15 years just think if no one ever bred dogs for the next 20 years, they would all be extinct... It's breeders that keep the hobby alive. I used to breed birds, most of the turkeys are on the endangered list because not many people breed them anymore, it's a shame.

I have another full time job, the snake and cattle business are just hobbies and everything I make I reinvest in the hobby. I'm hoping some day to retire and breed snakes and cattle for a living (during my retirement LOL).

For me there is nothing more satisfying than having a hobby that you have an extreme passion for and that you can make some good money to invest back into that hobby to make it grow or to improve the conditions for you and your animals.

This is my second year and I do it because it's an amazing experience.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Galaxygirl

This is my second year and I do it because it's an amazing experience.

---

this is the only reason i would breed the snakes once, for the experience, i don't care about the money,\ id probably more concerned where my snakes end up at,I"m afraid they'll end up with somebody that wont take care of them, forget that.

and another thing, when it comes to breeding snakes i have idea what im doing so yea lol.

I decided to breed after owning these animals for a couple of years and finding myself hungry to learn, obsessively researching and meeting other keepers and learning from them. When something in life grabs you like that, you have to follow it.

As for profit, I think anyone *could* make good money given the right strategy and a bit of luck, but I personally am not banking on it. If I could supplement my income as a result of some of my future projects, great! I won't profit much, if at all my first year. I'm really just enjoying the idea of creating some interesting animals that people will want as their first pets or part of their collections.

You can make money breeding snakes, i dont know why people always make like you cant. Its an investment the more money you put in the more money you can make. Its not wrong to want to make money, you just have to be in it for more than the money.

Well for me, I wanted to breed shortly after obtaining my first BP this past April. Although I do not plan to immediately breed BP's, I will after I finish college and after doing a plentiful amount of research on breeding them. Currently I have plans on doing a 3x recessive with albino, clown, and pied ball because I love the traits they present.

Sent from my SM-G900R6 using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by highqualityballz

You can make money breeding snakes, i dont know why people always make like you cant. Its an investment the more money you put in the more money you can make. Its not wrong to want to make money, you just have to be in it for more than the money.

---

You need more than money to be successful in the industry like marketing skills and reputation!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fLako0aGuiiLaR

You need more than money to be successful in the industry like marketing skills and reputation!

---

^This. Having a good reputation and an understanding of marketing will make you a more successful breeder than spending tons on money on snakes. For example, few are going to pay high prices for snake from a random breeder.

Sent from my SM-G900R6 using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

The more entertaining shadow of this topic are the ones that come and ask a couple questions but that's it. They don't answer questions asked of them that may help.

---

THIS. Those kinda folks drive me absolutely NUTS!! I don't breed, and I am one of those weirdos who thinks there are too many snakes in the world right now suffering from poor care and living in crappy homes, so I'm against breeding. BUT! I respect those responsible enough who actually care about all that goes into it, and really it's none of my business either way... But the guys who crawl into these forums and ask a question and then disappear are the ones I just want to throttle. And the most irritating part is that they are making money off people who don't know any better, so they are encouraged to keep doing it. Grrr!!

That being said, sometimes I cruise this place just to restore my faith in humanity. I have never stumbled upon a more passionate, caring, knowledgeable group of herpists. And I'm glad to know I'm not the only one who gets sick of the cretins who stop in once in a while to get a quick fix or easy answer to a complicated issue. I thought it was just me since I'm biased.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AerialArtist

I decided to breed after owning these animals for a couple of years and finding myself hungry to learn, obsessively researching and meeting other keepers and learning from them. When something in life grabs you like that, you have to follow it.

As for profit, I think anyone *could* make good money given the right strategy and a bit of luck, but I personally am not banking on it. If I could supplement my income as a result of some of my future projects, great! I won't profit much, if at all my first year. I'm really just enjoying the idea of creating some interesting animals that people will want as their first pets or part of their collections.

---

This is where I'm at now. I made a while list of balls that would breed well with mine, have researched multiple ways to make incubators and even started reading about genetics.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

Honestly you have to ask yourself would you breed if you could not make any money, if your answer is no IMO your not doing it for the right reason. I know i would still breed but with snakes that are alittle cheaper than what im working with now.

I decided to breed soon after acquiring my daughter's first ball python. Genetics have always been an interest of mine so I quickly got caught up in the whole paint job thing. When I saw RELs for the first time it was the tipping point. Could I buy one? Yes, but where's the fun in that? I wanted to be able to say I made one. And so it began...... Mojaves, Lessers, Phantoms, Albinos, Lavender Albinos....

Kinda like how people want to have their own baby?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by stickyalvinroll

Kinda like how people want to have their own baby?

---

ROFL. Yes, I have four of that variety as well.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by stickyalvinroll

Kinda like how people want to have their own baby?

---

One and done here.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by stickyalvinroll

Kinda like how people want to have their own baby?

---

I still prefer BPs they are a little more quite!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fLako0aGuiiLaR

I still prefer BPs they are a little more quite!

---

LOL, it does't seem that way when you have two little girls playing with them. I am amazed just how tolerant these snakes can be sometimes. My girls never hurt the animals but boy do they push the boundaries of what I would expect the snakes to put up with.

I feel like I'd like to have one clutch someday, just for the experience. They have smallish clutches (usually! I've seen the 12-egg clutches too!) so I should be able to keep all of them or place them with friends so I wouldn't be adding to the unwanted snake problem. Although with the current popularity of BPs, I think there might end up being a ton of them in rescue soon :/. So then I wouldn't feel right about having even 1 clutch---if I have the room, better to rescue. So it depends. But it would be cool.

Because interest and it's a new experience? I think every newbie has "I wonder how much money I can make" as a basic question, which is natural, and soon find out that it is not a money-making machine right off the bat. Some shrug and move on, some go for it because hobby and because interest. Why not?

I personally want to aim for higher contrast albinos in the future, if I ever breed. Because they're pretty and the experience would be worthwhile.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by redshepherd

Because interest and it's a new experience? I think every newbie has "I wonder how much money I can make" as a basic question, which is natural, and soon find out that it is not a money-making machine right off the bat. Some shrug and move on, some go for it because hobby and because interest. Why not?

I personally want to aim for higher contrast albinos in the future, if I ever breed. Because they're pretty and the experience would be worthwhile.

---

I can honestly say that I've never considered how much money I might be able to make - because I started out figuring that like most good animal breeders, it takes years of experience to spot the best quality and know how to select breeding animals that are going to produce something with the chance of being even better.

I did once try breeding Betta fish, to see what I'd get... fifteen years or so ago. After one healthy hatch of the ugliest Bettas I've ever seen, all over my house for several years, and taking care of each of those individual tanks, I will NOT be doing that again! They looked like zombie Cambodian bettas.