How much money will I be able to sell these BPs for?

For starters, I'm not breeding Ball Pythons just for the money. I've been keeping snakes for 11 years and I just wanted to see what kind of cool stuff I can create.

So what I'm doing is just mixing a huge amount of co-dominants together. About 6 or 7 at a time. I was going to just see what comes out, try to figure out what they are, and see if I can make some money.

I have two males, a super pastel fire pinstripe and a yellow belly soul sucker. Two females, a bumblebee mystic, and a mojave enchi pastel.

I'm looking at the prices on morph market and cannot figure out why some snakes with 5 or 6 genes go for so much more than others.

I know about the rare morph thing and playing the market. I didn't want to do that. That's why I got what I got.

So, as far as turning a profit, did I do anything at all correctly? Or am I just going to be making cool snakes to give to my friends?

Let's say 6 of these morphs show up in one snake. How would I be able to tell how much it's worth?

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7388/...47a947b5_b.jpg

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Originally Posted by stickyalvinroll

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7388/...47a947b5_b.jpg

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Sweet! So even if I only hatch 4 snakes, I'm still a millionaire.

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Originally Posted by Zeusophobia

Let's say 6 of these morphs show up in one snake. How would I be able to tell how much it's worth?

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Depends what they look like, UGLY isn't worth much. ;)

Prices will be based on

supply and demand

Quality especially when it comes to some animals listed

Current market prices, it's YOUR job to research the prices of the morph you are currently producing by checking various breeder's site, and classifieds site, no one will do it for you, when people are already gauging their own animal,

Reputation, people might be wary about dropping any kind of cash with someone popping out of nowhere.

Marketing skills

As far as turning a profit only YOU can tell, obviously I don't have YOUR numbers, and profit does not mean whatever your animals sell for is profit,

So you need to do some research and understand the market that's part of becoming a breeder and having business skills.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zeusophobia

So what I'm doing is just mixing a huge amount of co-dominants together. About 6 or 7 at a time. I was going to just see what comes out, try to figure out what they are, and see if I can make some money.

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Sums up everythingI hate about hobby breeding.

How about trying to produce quality animals that other people might actually want in their collections?

I'll give you $25.00 each for them.

I agree with Deborah!

Instead of focusing on "how much can I sell", why not ask "will I produce the highest quality"? In today's market, where there are literally hundreds if not thousands of hobbyists producing ball pythons. What makes you stand out? I'ld rather use careful selectively breeding to produce a single clutch of high quality offspring than 10 clutches of average looking combos. I promise you high quality offspring will demand higher prices and sell faster! Produce average, dime a dozen babies and you will be stuck with them and complain about the "dead market".

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Originally Posted by Zeusophobia

For starters, I'm not breeding Ball Pythons just for the money. I've been keeping snakes for 11 years and I just wanted to see what kind of cool stuff I can create.

So what I'm doing is just mixing a huge amount of co-dominants together. About 6 or 7 at a time. I was going to just see what comes out, try to figure out what they are, and see if I can make some money.

I have two males, a super pastel fire pinstripe and a yellow belly soul sucker. Two females, a bumblebee mystic, and a mojave enchi pastel.

I'm looking at the prices on morph market and cannot figure out why some snakes with 5 or 6 genes go for so much more than others.

I know about the rare morph thing and playing the market. I didn't want to do that. That's why I got what I got.

So, as far as turning a profit, did I do anything at all correctly? Or am I just going to be making cool snakes to give to my friends?

Let's say 6 of these morphs show up in one snake. How would I be able to tell how much it's worth?

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As a beginner in the breeding world, dont expect to compete directly with the big breeders. Until people know you, really the only draw is a cheaper price. What I did years ago was just to find an average price for a given morph after consulting kingsnake.com and faunaclassifieds, and just undercut it by 20%. I know that doesnt sound like a sustainable business practice, but it will help sell your first clutches faster and get you integrated into the market. Once you make some connections and figure out your niche, you can start getting competitive.

There is nothing worse than overpricing your first clutches, selling none or a few, and ending up having to pay to feed and take care of the hatchlings a lot longer than you expected to.

Don't sell your hatchlings before they've pipped.

Also figure that prices this year are higher than they will be next year.

I'm not a breeder, so maybe I just don't get the idea.

OK, say you have some hatchlings with six morphs showing. I've heard these tend to just be muddy unattractive snakes, therefore you probably won't be pricing any of them on their beauty, and that also means that your potential buyers willing to spend significant money for one of these animals are limited to other breeders.

But, what is a breeder going to do with this six gene animal? Isn't it a crap shoot for them too? So, the new owner will invest a couple of years raising it to breeding weight and hatching his own clutch...seems no better than throwing paint at the wall and hoping for a Vermeer.

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Originally Posted by distaff

I'm not a breeder, so maybe I just don't get the idea.

OK, say you have some hatchlings with six morphs showing. I've heard these tend to just be muddy unattractive snakes, therefore you probably won't be pricing any of them on their beauty, and that also means that your potential buyers willing to spend significant money for one of these animals are limited to other breeders.

But, what is a breeder going to do with this six gene animal? Isn't it a crap shoot for them too? So, the new owner will invest a couple of years raising it to breeding weight and hatching his own clutch...seems no better than throwing paint at the wall and hoping for a Vermeer.

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Yes this ^^^^

I have not been breeding long compared to many on here but I agree with distaff 100%. I have bought very few multi-gene animals as breeding stock. Most of my breeding stock is either single gene or dom/codom, dom/recessive. It is very hard to tell the quality of a specific gene in many animals when there are many present. Heck as established at my expense earlier this week I have issues telling a an axanthic pastel from a browned out pastel. I have a hard time believing that there are many people that could accurately and consistently be able to name some three gene animals let alone 4+ without knowing what the parents were. A four gene animal would be almost useless to me unless you count supers as two genes.

I myself plan on breeding, but breeding for the snakes I personally want. The ones I don't keep, I will literally give away.

Sent from my LGLS996 using Tapatalk

Ok, so from what I gather, I bought my initial breeding stock completely wrong. Massing a lot of morphs into a snake is not going to get me a cooler snake.

If someone could tell me how I can possibly salvage the males, that would be great. My males are a super dragonfly and a yellow belly soul sucker. Should I buy normals or one gene animals to breed them with?

I think my problem was I spent money before I really knew how to properly go about it. I really like my males though, they're awesome.

Maybe I should buy a 1 gene male to breed with my females too?

Sorry if my questions seem off putting. I was directed here from reddit and told this was the best place to get advice about ball pythons. I really want to get this done the right way.

I spent over $2,000 on snakes and supplies already. I need to find a way to incorporate what I've got into something worth doing.

If I were you I'd find some pied females, clown females and one codom like orange dream or GHI and work from there.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by Zeusophobia

For starters, I'm not breeding Ball Pythons just for the money.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zeusophobia

I spent over $2,000 on snakes and supplies already. I need to find a way to incorporate what I've got into something worth doing.

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The two statements seem somewhat at odds with each other. Something worth doing??? I find keeping Ball Pythons worth doing. I don't waste a lot of time counting the cost.

My advise, enjoy what you have for what they are. You seem to be very happy with your animals. If you must breed them, do it as the right way. And by right way, I mean focus on creating the best snake you can. Go ahead and get good with the fact that you will not make money. If you can't get good with that, you probably shouldn't be breeding them in the first place.

I've seen pro breeders mix a lot of genes into their snakes, they claim six or seven gene snakes and try to quickly rattle off all the genes when you are talking to them. I don't trust them one bit LOL. You may get more for a six gene snake and you'll probably get some pretty cool new snakes that no one has ever seen before. It's an approach not many people take, I thought about doing that. I say if that's what you started out aiming for then go for it! Once you start selling some snakes and making money you can decide to buy more or hold some back for your own collection and breeding program. I'd say forget trying to make single gene or double gene snakes like everyone else is saying, they are not worth the mice you feed them most of the times. Go after something that not only makes money but that you are passionate about. Go for passion first, and it helps so much more if you are making money and have passion as well!

I'm actually focusing on recessive genes, mainly piebald's. I'm trying to make new pied combos never seen before, probably will stick with 1-4 genes max. Still a lot of pieds I've never seen before, and with every new gene that's just one more pied combo I can make.

What's the price of a snake? Whatever you decide you want to sell it for, that's what it's selling for, although you may not ever sell it LOL. I've seen some snakes for a hundred bucks sit on morphmarket and never sell, and I've seen snakes that are $45,000 sell right away. Someone offered Brain B. $125,000 for a brand new scaleless ball python, one of a kind. He turned down the offer LOLOL. Supply and demand are kind of fickle as well, I've paid $1,100 for a snake and the next week seen the same snake sell for $500 and a few days later seen one sell for $850. It really jumps around by sometimes 2x or 3x. Some people do the research and undercut everyone else, not a real good way to do it since that makes the market crash really fast. It would be better to maintain prices so other breeders can recoup their costs. I usually watch websites like a hawk and watch the new stuff coming out every day. If a snake charms me I'll buy it as soon as it posts. I try to spend as much as I possibly can on a snake and take my time collecting them. Typically the more you spend the more you will make. If I had a million bucks I'd buy Brain B's scaleless snake, the Stormtrooper, and all the new stuff coming out on the market for $50K plus per snake.

I just saw four snakes posted on morphmarket today and all of them sold in the same day. I was lucky to get his best snake (in my opinion). It's a 'fire pied', or also called 'pyro pied'. I've actually never seen one before, paid $800 for it, I think he could have sold it for $1,500 or more and it still would have sold. Check out this awesome baby snake!!

https://morphmarket-media.s3.amazona...768694f508.jpg

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Originally Posted by cchardwick

I've seen pro breeders mix a lot of genes into their snakes, they claim six or seven gene snakes and try to quickly rattle off all the genes when you are talking to them. I don't trust them one bit LOL. You may get more for a six gene snake and you'll probably get some pretty cool new snakes that no one has ever seen before. It's an approach not many people take, I thought about doing that. I say if that's what you started out aiming for then go for it! Once you start selling some snakes and making money you can decide to buy more or hold some back for your own collection and breeding program. I'd say forget trying to make single gene or double gene snakes like everyone else is saying, they are not worth the mice you feed them most of the times. Go after something that not only makes money but that you are passionate about. Go for passion first, and it helps so much more if you are making money and have passion as well!

I'm actually focusing on recessive genes, mainly piebald's. I'm trying to make new pied combos never seen before, probably will stick with 1-4 genes max. Still a lot of pieds I've never seen before, and with every new gene that's just one more pied combo I can make.

What's the price of a snake? Whatever you decide you want to sell it for, that's what it's selling for, although you may not ever sell it LOL. I've seen some snakes for a hundred bucks sit on morphmarket and never sell, and I've seen snakes that are $45,000 sell right away. Someone offered Brain B. $125,000 for a brand new scaleless ball python, one of a kind. He turned down the offer LOLOL. Supply and demand are kind of fickle as well, I've paid $1,100 for a snake and the next week seen the same snake sell for $500 and a few days later seen one sell for $850. It really jumps around by sometimes 2x or 3x. Some people do the research and undercut everyone else, not a real good way to do it since that makes the market crash really fast. It would be better to maintain prices so other breeders can recoup their costs. I usually watch websites like a hawk and watch the new stuff coming out every day. If a snake charms me I'll buy it as soon as it posts. I try to spend as much as I possibly can on a snake and take my time collecting them. Typically the more you spend the more you will make. If I had a million bucks I'd buy Brain B's scaleless snake, the Stormtrooper, and all the new stuff coming out on the market for $50K plus per snake.

I just saw four snakes posted on morphmarket today and all of them sold in the same day. I was lucky to get his best snake (in my opinion). It's a 'fire pied', or also called 'pyro pied'. I've actually never seen one before, paid $800 for it, I think he could have sold it for $1,500 or more and it still would have sold. Check out this awesome baby snake!!

https://morphmarket-media.s3.amazona...768694f508.jpg

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Thanks for the advice. That's exactly what I was thinking when I started this. I just wanted to mix a bunch of genes together and see if I got something really cool.


I was just thrown off my game by all these people telling me that if I mix a bunch of genes into a snake it will come out looking like crap. I definitely don't want to produce snakes that look like crap.

I guess with this strategy I run the risk of producing a lot of boring looking snakes, while the reward might be one or two really cool looking snakes.

Edit: Oh yeah, and two thumbs up on the snake you posted. It's a beauty.

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Originally Posted by Zeusophobia

Thanks for the advice.

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You might want to ask cchardwick how many clutches he's produced and sold. Not being a hatter, but facts are facts...

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Originally Posted by Zeusophobia

I was just thrown off my game by all these people telling me that if I mix a bunch of genes into a snake it will come out looking like crap.

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If by thrown off your game, you mean you got some really solid advice, then okay, I see what you did there.

It sounds like you're going to do what you want to do regardless of any good advise you might receive. Seems like you might be seeking any voice that will validate what you want to do, even if it's not a great idea.

I wish you luck with your plans. Please don't forget to post pictures.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zeusophobia

Ok, so from what I gather, I bought my initial breeding stock completely wrong. Massing a lot of morphs into a snake is not going to get me a cooler snake.

If someone could tell me how I can possibly salvage the males, that would be great. My males are a super dragonfly and a yellow belly soul sucker. Should I buy normals or one gene animals to breed them with?

I think my problem was I spent money before I really knew how to properly go about it. I really like my males though, they're awesome.

Maybe I should buy a 1 gene male to breed with my females too?

Sorry if my questions seem off putting. I was directed here from reddit and told this was the best place to get advice about ball pythons. I really want to get this done the right way.

I spent over $2,000 on snakes and supplies already. I need to find a way to incorporate what I've got into something worth doing.

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Truthfully, you made a mistake if you made an investment and expected a return. Yes, you can break even or even make profit but it takes time. You need to learn the bps, the market, make contacts, feeder suppliers, and not get in over your head. Start small, find what you like, and expand. If you really like your males, be happy with them. Learn how to properly care for them. What females would be best for them? Whatever you'd like to own and couldn't afford on your own. If you're more concerned about what will sell best, you need to do your own research. Read the market trends and become familiar with what's going on.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zeusophobia

Thanks for the advice. That's exactly what I was thinking when I started this. I just wanted to mix a bunch of genes together and see if I got something really cool.


I was just thrown off my game by all these people telling me that if I mix a bunch of genes into a snake it will come out looking like crap. I definitely don't want to produce snakes that look like crap.

I guess with this strategy I run the risk of producing a lot of boring looking snakes, while the reward might be one or two really cool looking snakes.

Edit: Oh yeah, and two thumbs up on the snake you posted. It's a beauty.

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He gave some good advice and some poor advice, neither of which apply to you. The good advice was that he focuses on recessives but that is a completely different ball game than what you are doing. I am in 7 year and third generation recessive/codom project. It takes time and patience.

The bad advice was telling you how fast snakes sell and how much more people could sell their snakes for. Snakes can sell quickly but that's from established breeders who know their market, can price their snakes accurately off the bat, and people feel confident that they can trust them. Sorry but none of these apply to you. It takes time to learn the market and build a reputation. You can do it but it's not an overnight get-rich-quick scheme. It becomes a business like any other. On the second part, snakes sell for what the market says they can, not the breeder. If the breeder could price higher and sell, they would.

The reason people are telling you that you may have chosen a difficult route is because the majority of genes will not be apparent in most 7 gene animals. Going back to the trust and reputation angle, you are going to have to be able to accurately identify all genes present in these animals. Do you have the experience and knowledge to do this? I'm guessing 99% of people on this forum could not identify all genes in a 6 or 7 gene bp with the few resident experts an exception. Even the big breeders cannot get them all right sometimes and you often seen a 6 gene bp with 4 or 5 genes listed and one or two extra as poss. I don't think anyone thinks the offspring won't look awesome. What people are telling is that the genes will often be muddled and you'll have a difficult time identifying them.

So yes, you can produce some cool offspring but you are in for some work. If you were looking for an easy return, I would have probably put that $2k in stocks instead.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zeusophobia

I was just thrown off my game by all these people telling me that if I mix a bunch of genes into a snake it will come out looking like crap. I definitely don't want to produce snakes that look like crap.

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Four-gene codom snakes can be cool but in many cases I think the two to three gene codom morphs are aesthetically nicer critters.

Now that said, two or three codoms combined with orange ghost... :gj:

You are getting started and already counting dollars.
Have you thought about expenses?
You are already $2k in the hole not including feeding and care......

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

You are getting started and already counting dollars.
Have you thought about expenses?
You are already $2k in the hole not including feeding and care......

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But remember it's a hobby, not a business. Heck I've had vet bills higher than that.

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Originally Posted by Jabberwocky Dragons

Truthfully, you made a mistake if you made an investment and expected a return. Yes, you can break even or even make profit but it takes time. You need to learn the bps, the market, make contacts, feeder suppliers, and not get in over your head. Start small, find what you like, and expand. If you really like your males, be happy with them. Learn how to properly care for them. What females would be best for them? Whatever you'd like to own and couldn't afford on your own. If you're more concerned about what will sell best, you need to do your own research. Read the market trends and become familiar with what's going on.




He gave some good advice and some poor advice, neither of which apply to you. The good advice was that he focuses on recessives but that is a completely different ball game than what you are doing. I am in 7 year and third generation recessive/codom project. It takes time and patience.

The bad advice was telling you how fast snakes sell and how much more people could sell their snakes for. Snakes can sell quickly but that's from established breeders who know their market, can price their snakes accurately off the bat, and people feel confident that they can trust them. Sorry but none of these apply to you. It takes time to learn the market and build a reputation. You can do it but it's not an overnight get-rich-quick scheme. It becomes a business like any other. On the second part, snakes sell for what the market says they can, not the breeder. If the breeder could price higher and sell, they would.

The reason people are telling you that you may have chosen a difficult route is because the majority of genes will not be apparent in most 7 gene animals. Going back to the trust and reputation angle, you are going to have to be able to accurately identify all genes present in these animals. Do you have the experience and knowledge to do this? I'm guessing 99% of people on this forum could not identify all genes in a 6 or 7 gene bp with the few resident experts an exception. Even the big breeders cannot get them all right sometimes and you often seen a 6 gene bp with 4 or 5 genes listed and one or two extra as poss. I don't think anyone thinks the offspring won't look awesome. What people are telling is that the genes will often be muddled and you'll have a difficult time identifying them.

So yes, you can produce some cool offspring but you are in for some work. If you were looking for an easy return, I would have probably put that $2k in stocks instead.

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I really should have joined this forum before I spent money. I did everything wrong.

Now I've got to decide if I want to spend a ton of money on clown females. It seems like that would be the way to go.

If you are looking for a money making venture, reptiles are not it.

I have a sore spot regarding people who breed animals for profit. My dog came from one such place, and by the time breed rescue got to him, he was covered in poop mats, weighed 2/3 his normal weight, and was unsocialized and loaded with worms. The breeder thought there would be money in raising pups, but got bored when the money didn't cover the expenses and neglected the animals. He is my spoiled baby now.

Animals should be raised for the love of them, and the big profits generally go to the established breeders with good, long-standing reputations. I know I am new to this forum, but I see red when someone talks about getting into animals to make money.