Is paradox genetic?

Are your chances of producing paradox animals higher with an paradox animal than without a paradox animal?

For the most part, people say it is not... But there was a breeder in facebook's ball pythons classified group awhile back who was selling his collection of paradox breeders and getting out of the hobby. It seemed to be true, because he had photos of his clutches full of paradox. I just chatted briefly with him. :s

So maybe, yes? But it's not common or known enough in the hobby yet.

paradox is thought to be twins that one was absorbed by the other inside the egg leaving part of the pattern on the remaining animal. I don't think it is genetic but maybe animals that come from a paradox or a paradox clutch are more likely to produce twins which could result in a paradox?

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Originally Posted by boaguy

paradox is thought to be twins that one was absorbed by the other inside the egg leaving part of the pattern on the remaining animal. I don't think it is genetic but maybe animals that come from a paradox or a paradox clutch are more likely to produce twins which could result in a paradox?

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That's an interesting theory. I would think if that were the case that the breeder would also have a high occurance of twins in their clutches from those animals then. I can't say I've given it much thought but I've heard both that it's just random but I also know a breeder that has a "paradox line" of his lavendar albinos that do seem to have it pop up quite often.

i dunno, but i will find out. ;)

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Originally Posted by HannahLou

That's an interesting theory. I would think if that were the case that the breeder would also have a high occurance of twins in their clutches from those animals then. I can't say I've given it much thought but I've heard both that it's just random but I also know a breeder that has a "paradox line" of his lavendar albinos that do seem to have it pop up quite often.

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i've seen that line of Albino's on KS. in addition to the consistent paradoxing, they also have consistent banding i believe. i would pick them up if had not already had Albino's.

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Originally Posted by Ax01

i dunno, but i will find out. ;)



i've seen that line of Albino's on KS. in addition to the consistent paradoxing, they also have consistent banding i believe. i would pick them up if had not already had Albino's.

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They are beautiful. I think I'll email Will and see if he does also have lots of twins in that line and see what his 2 cents on it are. I don't know if he's on here?

Random is only an event that is too complex for us to explain. The chimera theory makes most sense to me, in humans people with twins in the family tend to have a higher ratio of twins, the wife and I have twins on both sides of the family so the twins in her right now we're not a big surprise. So why not snakes? Sounds like plenty of other polygenic traits. Then you need animals prone to making chimeras and also a pairing that makes different looking animals, there might be Paradox animals in your collection, but if the twins were the same morph, you can't tell.

Nick Mutton (Herpnation Radio Network) has an interview with a geneticist on chimeras and other rare oddities.
Wish I could remember the scientist's name - sorry.

Very interesting, great discussion. One of his best programs.

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Originally Posted by distaff

Nick Mutton (Herpnation Radio Network) has an interview with a geneticist on chimeras and other rare oddities.
Wish I could remember the scientist's name - sorry.

Very interesting, great discussion. One of his best programs.

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i just saw and chatted Nick this past weekend at the Seattle show. for a second i thought i had bought tickets to the gun show lol. he's a top tier arboreal python breeder and really great in the community! i'll have to look up that interview.

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Originally Posted by OhhWatALoser

Random is only an event that is too complex for us to explain. The chimera theory makes most sense to me, in humans people with twins in the family tend to have a higher ratio of twins, the wife and I have twins on both sides of the family so the twins in her right now we're not a big surprise. So why not snakes? Sounds like plenty of other polygenic traits. Then you need animals prone to making chimeras and also a pairing that makes different looking animals, there might be Paradox animals in your collection, but if the twins were the same morph, you can't tell.

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Congratsx2! I know for some cases of human twins that it's common in families because some women tend to hyperovulate for different reasons. There is an area in Africa I remember reading about that because of one of their staple foods being yams it contributes to more of the local women hyperovulating and they have the highest occurance of natural twins. I'm not quite sure how that would translate to snake ovulation since they're so different with their folicle growth but I'm sure it could be a similar genetic trait in related females.

I also find it interesting how most Paradox animals have the exact same pattern on both parts, it's like pattern gets determined after the theoretical combination but color determined before hand

As it relates to the paradoxing, if the animals are the same morph would you be able to tell the paradoxing if they were fraternal twins ( different eggs) as opposed identical twins (same egg)?

I've never heard of identical twin snakes

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Originally Posted by OhhWatALoser

I've never heard of identical twin snakes

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in this context, i think Albert means twins as being born in the same egg as opposed to being born in the same clutch.

As far as I know, you can't tell something is Paradox without it being a different morph.

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Originally Posted by OhhWatALoser

As far as I know, you can't tell something is Paradox without it being a different morph.

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that's probably right. i've heard paradoxing described as a window through the morph skin into another skin usually a normal BP's colors and pattern. and i've heard chimeras described as a WTF, how did that gene get in there?! for example, the Highway chimera with 2 big rings/bands of Albino along the body.

So I am curious how possible it would be to have testes one from one twin and one from the other? You could possibly be throwing a morph where there was no outward indication that the gene was even there.

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Originally Posted by distaff

Nick Mutton (Herpnation Radio Network) has an interview with a geneticist on chimeras and other rare oddities.
Wish I could remember the scientist's name - sorry.

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That would have been me.

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Originally Posted by distaff

Very interesting, great discussion. One of his best programs.

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Glad you liked the show:gj: