When to breed my own rats?

I currently have 7 ball pythons with 2 more coming very soon and possibly a couple more later this year. At what point does it become more convenient to produce my own rodents?

I would. You are probably paying more for rats than the cost of breeding.I mathed out per 4 weeks, and 20 breeders, I use no more than 1 large bag of pine(5$) less than one bag of tractor supply dog food(14$) and supplement with food scraps from home. I was previously paying 3$ per small rat. The only problem then is do you have enough animals to eat all the rats.

Just freeze what you don't use, I'd say do it if you have the space, and you like rodents. You'll be spending a bit of time caring for them, so if you don't like them, don't do it.

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Originally Posted by chilliscale

I would. You are probably paying more for rats than the cost of breeding.I mathed out per 4 weeks, and 20 breeders, I use no more than 1 large bag of pine(5$) less than one bag of tractor supply dog food(14$) and supplement with food scraps from home. I was previously paying 3$ per small rat. The only problem then is do you have enough animals to eat all the rats.

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Pine isn't good for ball pythons so using pine as a substrate for their feeders would be just as bad since they eat them. And what you feed your feeders matters because your snakes will eventually be eating them.

I would advise not to take this persons advise on how to care for feeders. But it does sound like a good idea for you to do your own breeding. Just keep them on aspen and feed them a nice well balanced diet so they will be nutritious food for your snakes.

I along with many many rat breeders use line and have for a long time. Supplementing dog food has worked great for me and my rats are healthy and strong.

I have six BP's, and one Kingsnake - and I breed my own rats. Unfortunately, it looks like I'm going to have to go back to breeding my own mice, too, since my largest girl decided she doesn't like rats recently... Mice stink much worse. But I plan on getting a rodent shed build this summer, so that they can all be moved OUT of the house, as well as building rodent racks to keep them in instead of storage tubs.

Edit - I recently got a bag of stall pellet bedding to try for my rat cages, since I noticed there was a bit of blood around one of my male rat's nose from sneezing at the pine. It's not good for rats, but pine WILL work, and it's cheap. He has no problem with the stall pellet, however and I've discovered that it controls odor and moisture better for quite a bit longer than the pine, aspen, OR recycled paper bedding ever has. I feed Mazuri... but if Doggy Bag dog food were available around here, I can guarantee I'd be using that instead. Unfortunately, it's not. I found one place 200+ miles away that I can get Mazuri... at $1 a pound.

I wouldn't do it. Rats are disgusting creatures imo. They stink up the house and will take up a it of time. I feel like my house and time is a lot valuable than saving a few dollars here and there

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Originally Posted by stickyalvinroll

I wouldn't do it. Rats are disgusting creatures imo. They stink up the house and will take up a it of time. I feel like my house and time is a lot valuable than saving a few dollars here and there

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That is a good point. Although I have sealed off my room and created a negative pressure, before I sell my home I will likely have to replace drywall and trim to get the odor out of the room.

You could always try breeding ASFs, they don't get huge that you can't feed off and they don't smell as bad as mice and rats. Warning, they have huge litters so be ready to freeze some. Only problem with them is not a lot of people use them and some potential customers might be worried they won't be able to switch BPs to rats or mice.

Convenience comes at its own cost, so weigh that against what you want as well. How much is it costing you monetarily to feed your snakes on a weekly basis when you buy their meals from a local source? Vs: how much will it cost you in time, effort, and setup costs to produce your own food? You need a rat rack, a place to KEEP the rat rack, a watering system (bottles or otherwise), bins for breeding, enough rats that females in rotation will produce enough offspring to feed your snakes sustainably, bins for the birthing mothers and their pups, substrate and food... and you'll be changing their litter every few days, feeding and watering them every day (if you're using bottles), killing what you use (or don't use, if you feed live), and freezing the excess... so you'll need freezer space as well.

It seems a little overwhelming to look at. But when our feeding costs rose to $75+ a week (that's $300 a month!! as much as we spend on ourselves!!) my husband did the math and got into Mr Build-it mode, and we built ourselves a 6-bin rack, bought some mommy-bins at a discount since someone was getting rid of their old ones (not pretty, but fully functional), and we started buying bulk substrate and rat food on special order through our local Pet Club store. We kept that rack IN THE HOUSE (omg, regrets). We have since gained even more mouths to feed, and recently built a fully insulated and AC'd shed to house our expanded our rat colony (and will be adding ASFs soon)(THANK GOD, NO MORE RATS IN MY HOUSE). My husband estimates that it costs us $30-50 a month to bed and feed our rats, and we spend a couple of hours a week maintaining them. Even with the headache and hassle of losing weekends to build better racks, build a gravity watering system, clean, feed, maintain, kill, vacuum pack, and freeze them... it is INCREDIBLY worth it to us!!

Oh ya I posted a picture a while back of my 5 tub rat racks made from pallets. Hardware cloth and tubs cost me about 50$
http://s1108.photobucket.com/user/Ch...ml?sort=3&o=22

Trying again

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How many rats would I need to start off? How bad is the smell? That is pretty much my biggest concern.

I try to hae one female for every 2 snakea I am feeding. That gives.me an abundance which plays out well for me. I also try to space breeding between groups of females by a week so I can have almost every size available all the time. The smell isn't too bad when you only have a few rats
Just be sure to clean every 4 d or 5 days. The odor is more closely related to your cleaning habits and how crampt the rat quarters are. More rats per tub equates to more frequent bedding changes or more odor

I used to care for a huge mouse/rat colony (25-30 20gal aquariums for mice, and 3-5 40gal aquariums for rats), we used aspen or pine bedding, water bottles, and the food was a mix of kitten chow, nuts, dried fruit, grains, and occasionally fresh veggies. I cleaned weekly and it would take about 2-3 hours and 1/2 a large horse-stall sized bag of aspen. They were in a basement, so the smell was not too bad, but in the summer on really warm days you'd occasionally get a whiff (the basement was not heated/air conditioned in summer it would get up to 78 and in winter we used heat lamps). The smell was not that unpleasant, but I will say the more sexually mature males you have, the worse the smell. We tried to keep 1 male per 5 females in each cage and feed out excess males first. Males could breed successfully for 1.5 - 2 years, females about a year. These were not rotated to give females breaks that often, so this can extend their breeding life.

Now, it was on a farm, so we just dumped the wheel-barrow full of soiled litter out in a compost heap, but if you live in a city/urban environment make sure you have a way of disposing of the bedding. That DOES start to stink as it breaks down, and neighbors may not approve of the smell. We also had a small problem of escapees surviving and breeding in the wild, so you'd occasionally see a domestic mouse scurrying through the barn...but that should not be a problem if your only feeding snakes.

To be honest, if you're caring for them properly you shouldn't really have an issue with smell. Most animals have a smell, and you are going to smell them, but it shouldn't be overwhelming and soaking into the walls so that you have to replace them if you choose to move... if you cramp too many in a bin and don't clean them often enough, then maybe you would have that problem, otherwise they really shouldn't 'stink'.

You could always keep them in a pet-type setup, however that will likely make breeding your own rats pointless since I doubt you'll save much money doing so. Maybe it would since you don't need a LOT of rats, but I wouldn't know. It would definitely be a lot larger initial cost though, with buying a good cage and accessories, making bin cages for nursing, etc.

When kept clean though, I find they actually have a nice smell if you grab one and sniff 'em. Lol
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...69fe8a2625.jpg

We do a breeding ratio of up to 1.4 (usually fewer, as we take out the obviously pregnant ones and put them in birthing bins, where they stay until their brood is weaned and can reach the food and water) and change the litter in all the bins every 3 days. When they were indoors, it would start to get pretty funky by day 3, because the racks were in a closet, and it compounded a bit over time. Now that they're in the shed, we just flick on the fan, and even on a bad day, the smell is gone in 3 minutes.

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Originally Posted by Aercadia

We do a breeding ratio of up to 1.4 (usually fewer, as we take out the obviously pregnant ones and put them in birthing bins, where they stay until their brood is weaned and can reach the food and water) and change the litter in all the bins every 3 days. When they were indoors, it would start to get pretty funky by day 3, because the racks were in a closet, and it compounded a bit over time. Now that they're in the shed, we just flick on the fan, and even on a bad day, the smell is gone in 3 minutes.

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Can't wait to have a shed. I keep mine in a converted half bath and it can be.bad after 4 days even with 3 females per tub

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Originally Posted by stickyalvinroll

I wouldn't do it. Rats are disgusting creatures imo. They stink up the house and will take up a it of time. I feel like my house and time is a lot valuable than saving a few dollars here and there

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They aren't that bad, if you spend 30 minutes a day doing maintenance then you wont have a bad smell. They aren't as hard to care for as people make them out to be. And if you have 40 snakes or more, it saves more than a few dollars.

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Originally Posted by Fraido

To be honest, if you're caring for them properly you shouldn't really have an issue with smell. Most animals have a smell, and you are going to smell them, but it shouldn't be overwhelming and soaking into the walls so that you have to replace them if you choose to move... if you cramp torn a bin and don't clean them often enough, then maybe you would have that problem, otherwise they really shouldn't 'stink'.

You could always keep them in a pet-type setup, however that will likely make breeding your own rats pointless since I doubt you'll save much money doing so. Maybe it would since you don't need a LOT of rats, but I wouldn't know. It would definitely be a lot larger initial cost though, with buying a good cage and accessories, making bin cages for nursing, etc.

When kept clean though, I find they actually have a nice smell if you grab one and sniff 'em. Lol
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...69fe8a2625.jpg

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If you have hundreds of rats in a room for years, or even a few dozen, no matter how clean you keep it there will be smell. I recently moved and after having rats in a room for only 7 years, the smell was still noticed by others viewing the house a couple months later. Just in one room

It's possible.

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So... like 5 rats should be good to start off? I won't be keeping hundreds and I will clean everyday if I have to.

I say go ahead and start with five, trial and error, find out what number works best for you. If you find you need more, get more.

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Originally Posted by Fraido

I say go ahead and start with five, trial and error, find out what number works best for you. If you find you need more, get more.

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Agreed. And if you have surplus you can sell them locally to recoup a little cost or justify getting more snakes:rolleyes:

I like the whole getting more snakes thing 😉

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Ya . works until the wife sees bank statements....

I give my extras to a local pet store, to sell as pets or feeders. My breeder rats are all pets. They're remarkably intelligent, personable animals - unlike mice, which are just annoying, though I've had those as pets as well. I recently discovered that I have a Retic and a Burmese breeder near me, so any rats that get too big for my BP's will have a place to go...

Just be sure you don't make the same mistake I did, and put your male(s) in with all of your females at once. I had four rats give birth within a few days of each other, which was waaaay too many rats all at once. It worked out, sort of, since my breeders (purchased, unhandled, unfriendly and aggressive) have now been phased out and culled, so that I can raise some of their offspring to be more tame and replace them. Though the male I ended up keeping... he's pretty mellow. I'm still trying to figure out how I got Cream, Siamese, and Siamese Hooded rats from black Berkshire parents. Rat genetics completely elude me.

I hear you on the genetics. I bred two himis together and got black hooded, himi, pew, and this weird himi with dark markings from the base of her tail up to her neck. Lol!!

I never know what's going to pop out.