Farm-Raised Snakes

Hey all,

I have a farm-raised Malaysian Blood Python who is very cage aggressive, gets stressed easily which has accounted for a previous respiratory infection and he now has developed a SECOND infection :please:, and is just a very difficult snake to work with. Does anyone have experience with farm-raised snakes? Bloods in particular?

thanks

I would suggest taking him to SEAVS in Fairfax to get his RI treated. They do nothing but exotic animals and recently saved the life of my female retic when an infection almost completely blocked her colon and she needed surgery.

They're also used to difficult snakes.

My general rule to CB snakes is avoid them. The extra you pay for a CBB is a wash considering that the first thing you should do if you buy a CB is take it to the vet to get a full checkup since in the case of something like a GTP, they can have worms which if not killed, will kill the snake. And that's just the health side of it. There is the whole not being handled or used to human interaction and being shipped a long distance from another country to here. All of that combined is just a recipe for problems.

Now don't get me wrong, some CB snakes do very well and if you get them from a reputable reseller like Bushmaster, then you will probably(key word being Probably) have a relatively decent start but again, I would take it in for a check up and quarantine it for extra time.

Good luck on your snake. And in the end, you will just have to work through the pissiness of the snake to hopefully get it tamed.

While stress certainly adds to health complications it seems that you also are having some husbandry issues.

We could certainly help get that sorted if you care to explain your current setup. Posting a pic would be very helpful for us as well to show us what you are working with.

No matter how many times the RI is treated it is only going to return if the husbandry issues are not corrected.

Farm raised? Aren't "farm raised" raised for food?

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Originally Posted by stickyalvinroll

Farm raised? Aren't "farm raised" raised for food?

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Some are as some places do eat snakes but there are plenty of farm raised snakes that are imported and sold here to be pets. The only issue is they are not usually very good for it. I got a GTP like that and had noting but issues with it until it ultimately passed.

Pictures:
http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...4/img_0567.jpghttp://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...4/img_0568.jpghttp://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...4/img_0569.jpghttp://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...4/img_0570.jpg

I do have a question. The only RI symptom he has been showing is clicking and occasional wheezing. There were bubbles/mucous about two days ago. Is the infection getting better?? I have been nebulizing with f10 and I have requested an appointment be made this week.

I use a single tub setup with a heater hooked up to a thermostat. Temps are 79-83 but with the RI it has been bumped up. I have 16 holes on each side with about 13 holes on the front and back for ventilation. I use cypress mulch and I use a newspaper hide most of the time but he has a half log atm. He recently had a good shed but right after he shed that's when he developed the RI. I can only assume it was from bacterial growth and stress combined...what a nightmare man. Hopefully this vet visit will prove to be beneficial for the both of us.....

Ok? But why would you buy a farm raised animal as a pet? I don't get it

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Originally Posted by stickyalvinroll

Ok? But why would you buy a farm raised animal as a pet? I don't get it

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In this context, farm = large snake breeding/egg hatching facility, not farm = raised for food. Is that where the confusion is?

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Originally Posted by stickyalvinroll

Ok? But why would you buy a farm raised animal as a pet? I don't get it

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lol that's besides the point...BUT if you must know, I got him from an expo and had already planned on getting him for a month beforehand. I hadn't really went through and searched for private breeders who have the quality captive bred animals. I wanted a normal red blood, but a lot of breeders only had the morphs available. lol again, besides the point.

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Originally Posted by stickyalvinroll

Ok? But why would you buy a farm raised animal as a pet? I don't get it

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Generally farm raised means some people went out and caught wild gravid females and then once she laid eggs, they either released her or ate her and then they incubate the eggs and sell the hatchlings. In most of those cases, you have no idea what the dad is and like I said before, they don't care about the animals themselves, just the cash so they don't interact with them, make sure they are settled in and eating right, are parasite free and stuff. They just take them, sell them to a reseller in the states as X snake like just GTP or Blood Python or whatever its general family is. Then its up to the reseller to try and take a guess at what it is and then slap a price tag on it.

As for why buy from a reseller who is selling captive bred aka farm raised, because its a lot cheaper. A pure bred Manokwari, Sorong, Cyclops Mnt or any of those GTPs from a breeder is going to be double the price of a farm raised one. I'm using GTP as an example because that and tree boas seem to be the main species that are farm raised. The Captive bred born ones I've been looking at are going for around $600+. Now you can find a CB biak for around $300 and a CB Aru or Manokwari for probably around $400. Basically you roll the dice on CB and pray you get one that is well adjusted and eats well, doesn't have worms that burrow into the snake and kill it in a couple months or take it to the vet and have it fully checked out.

I seen recommended over and over again in short tail communities not to buy the mass farmed babies as they tend to have a poor track record for health, temperament and appearance. Not much you can do about it now, when you say there's a 2nd infection, you mean reoccuring RI or ? Was the snake treated previously and with what? Have the vet do a culture and get the correct meds, keep the environment stable and correct and hopefully it will pull through.

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Originally Posted by RoyalBlood20

I do have a question. The only RI symptom he has been showing is clicking and occasional wheezing. There were bubbles/mucous about two days ago. Is the infection getting better?? I have been nebulizing with f10 and I have requested an appointment be made this week.

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It could be. I have seen owners use F10 to treat RI.

I would encourage you to get a IR temp gun. The gauges you have are OK but they are known to be off and they all end up dead. A temp gun will let you be far more accurate in your keeping.

Are you using the fogger only for the treatment or is it going at all times for humidity? I have had good success with using moist cypress mulch alone for my bloods. Once it starts to dry out I give it a good spray and Im back to good.

In a tub you should not need a fogger and cypress mulch.

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Originally Posted by GoingPostal

I seen recommended over and over again in short tail communities not to buy the mass farmed babies as they tend to have a poor track record for health, temperament and appearance. Not much you can do about it now, when you say there's a 2nd infection, you mean reoccuring RI or ? Was the snake treated previously and with what? Have the vet do a culture and get the correct meds, keep the environment stable and correct and hopefully it will pull through.

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Reoccuring RI. I used f10 for his first infection which worked out amazing, though he was in the beginning stages. I have been using f10 for almost a week now and it's not kicking it this time around, so I'll be going to a vet sometime this week. and yeah not much I can do about it now.

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Originally Posted by KMG

It could be. I have seen owners use F10 to treat RI.

I would encourage you to get a IR temp gun. The gauges you have are OK but they are known to be off and they all end up dead. A temp gun will let you be far more accurate in your keeping.

Are you using the fogger only for the treatment or is it going at all times for humidity? I have had good success with using moist cypress mulch alone for my bloods. Once it starts to dry out I give it a good spray and Im back to good.

In a tub you should not need a fogger and cypress mulch.

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No, the fogger is strictly used for treatment, i just leave it on top of the tub for whatever reason. Yeah the cypress works out for him better than newspaper. Another question though. I have had the humidity pretty high to keep him breathing well, and it seems that when my humidity was low the last time he had an RI it seemed to be much better for him....idk if there could be any truth to this or if some snakes just respond better...

Well if he has gotten RI a second time, I would look into the husbandry. If you don't fix the root problem, the RI will just keep coming back.

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Originally Posted by RoyalBlood20

No, the fogger is strictly used for treatment, i just leave it on top of the tub for whatever reason. Yeah the cypress works out for him better than newspaper. Another question though. I have had the humidity pretty high to keep him breathing well, and it seems that when my humidity was low the last time he had an RI it seemed to be much better for him....idk if there could be any truth to this or if some snakes just respond better...

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Ive only had to deal with one RI and that was with my GTP who I got sick, not happy about that. I took him to the vet and we did xrays and got injections. The vet at that time also told me to bump up both the temps and humidity. I didn't feel right about it but I did it. At the end of the injections my GTP was all better and I took things back down to normal. I have not had any issues since.

If you are going to a good vet I would follow what they say. If it were me and the F10 seemed to be working I think I would start getting the husbandry in the proper spec. Check out this site. It has a ton of good info.
http://bloodpythons.com/cms/index.php/resources

Do you have a good humidity gauge? If not I would recommend two. The first is actually an El Cheapo but I have found it to be very accurate when compared to the gauges in my cigar humidors.

It is this one. I have a couple of these, one of which is in my GTP cage. I also have a digital one but this one always gives me good readings. I also like that it is quick to read the humidity.
http://www.amazon.com/Zoo-Med-Econom...=sr_1_1&sr=8-1

Another I would suggest is a tad more expense. These are meant for cigar humidors. What I like about this one is it is adjustable meaning you can easily calibrate it so you know its accurate. I have one in each of my two cigar humidors and they have never lead me wrong. The batteries also last much longer than the other gauges I have tried in the pet category. The other thing I like about them is they have a magnet mount so they can easily be taken in and out of the cages for cleaning or battery changes.

I have two rectangular ones. The round one has the same features but the display is smaller.
http://www.amazon.com/Quality-Import...=sr_1_1&sr=8-1


One last thing I will throw out is this. I have one with three remote sensors so I have one in my BRB cage, GTP cage, and one in an empty cage. The three remote sensors report back to the base unit and I can move it with me around the house. What I really like about this option is you can take the display unit with you around the house which is super handy when you are dialing in a cage and would like to give a cage more attention than usual. The remote sensors also have a display on them so you can still look into the cage and get the same info. I opted not to use the mounting bracket and instead used a good high quality 3M Velcro. I used the hook side on the sensor so if and when I remove them for whatever reason only the soft loops are left. My GTP and BRB have been rather rough on these sensors and they are still going strong. My GTP has his mounted up high where he likes to hang out so it has taken many drops that are just over a foot and its still good.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00DNI6KZA/...ing=UTF8&psc=1

Another thing we may need to address is the air exchange of the tub. A small fan in the room moving air may do you a lot of good. Don't point the fan at the tub. I put an oscillating fan in my snake room and it keeps all my cages with good air exchange and does not allow the air get stagnate which creates issues.

How is that besides the point?? I read you've already bought a "farm raised" animal and has passed away due to health problems. So why would you go back again into the same low quality type of animal. Doesn't make any sense. Now you're back asking for help becuase you didn't learn your lesson the first time.

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Originally Posted by stickyalvinroll

I read you've already bought a "farm raised" animal and has passed away due to health problems.

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That was KMG's experience (see post #6), not the OP's.

Take a fecal sample to the vet, most importers only treat for external parasites like mites and ticks, but not for internal parasites.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stickyalvinroll

How is that besides the point?? I read you've already bought a "farm raised" animal and has passed away due to health problems. So why would you go back again into the same low quality type of animal. Doesn't make any sense. Now you're back asking for help becuase you didn't learn your lesson the first time.

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you're all over the place lol. are you reading the forum posts? obviously you didn't.

Great advice, I will look into those gadgets right now. I followed your advice and put a small desktop vornado fan in my room, away from the enclosure. I also forgot to mention that I incorporate an Accurite Temp/Humidity gauge. so I have the Zoo med temp gauges and the accurite. Thinking about using a heat pad for the extra warmth (t-stat used of course)

The Accurite is good. It should give you good intel.

If you mean a heat pad that is for humans it would not be recommended to use it. You need one that is for animals. You can certainly go to a pet store and buy one or if you have Prime or can wait there are some better options online.

I have one of these and like it a lot. It is very flat and is said to not get above 100F. This does not mean that if insulated to much that it can not burn a snake, it can, so like you said a tstat is still needed. I don't know what size your tub is so this one may be to big or small. Just use it as a reference.

http://www.amazon.com/Flukers-Reptil...=sr_1_5&sr=8-5

These are also really good and highly recommended in this hobby. They look the same as the Flukers but are maybe a tad better quality. I have several of these and I really cant tell the difference. Both brands have given me great service. Again this may not be the size you need, its a reference only.

http://www.amazon.com/Ultratherm-Und...r_1_14&sr=8-14

lol nah a heat pad for reptiles. I am not that naive haha. will check those out as well, I have several unused heat pads, just need another t-stat

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Originally Posted by RoyalBlood20

lol nah a heat pad for reptiles. I am not that naive haha. will check those out as well, I have several unused heat pads, just need another t-stat

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Good deal. Sounds like you are on top of things.

I have an appointment with SEAVS exotic vet in fairfax va on Thursday. vet emailed to confirm. Thanks for the help guys. Going to follow up eith updates and any advice from the vet that might help out some other keepers who are having difficulties. Wish me luck!! Pray for my bank account as well haha

Got home today and saw that my blood passed away. his enclosure was a mess and there was poop and urates everywhere. i was gone for two days and came home to this. not cool :( Thank you all for your advice and help. I am not discouraged as a keeper but I am going to wait until I am confident enough to get another shorty. I may start again with a borneo but again ill give it some time and definitely start again with a captive bred animal. Its a shame. his name was red RIP buddy

Sorry to hear about your blood.


If you decide to, there are quite a few great borneo breeders out there and a lot of variety to choose from, my two are from ColdBlooded Earth. Babies should be showing up in a couple months.

I am sorry. Put the body in the refrigerator - not the freezer - and take him in for a necropsy since you have other herps. Some parasites and diseases are highly communicable and if your other critters start getting sick you'll have an idea of what you're battling and can start treating immediately.

Wow this is so sad I am so sorry...with the vet appt being tomorrow, what an awful shame. :tears: Good for you for not being discouraged as an owner.

Very sorry for your loss. RIP Red <3

Sorry it turned out this way. It sucks. The not knowing is the worst part so like it was already suggested and since you have a vey visit it may be worth it to let them figure out what the issue was.