First large constrictor?

I've been keeping snakes for years(corns, BPs, kings, milks, etc) but I'm wanting to get a larger snake now. Would you suggest a burm, retic, or some type of boa? Why? Thank you so much!:)

Depends on how much size and personality you are ready for. Boas are the obvious "next step" they get big but not huge. Burms get much larger but are slow movers and pretty chill(I've only had one burm tho) Then retics my personal favorites get very big and love to get out and run, also they are extremely intelligent and know everything going on around them so it's important to learn to read them well. It's all in what you are prepared for, just make sure you have done all your homework and know you're ready for a large animal.


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I'd go with a boa first, maybe a female if you're serious about getting a giant in the future. imo retics and burms are in a different league than boas, which are considered a good "next step" up from bps, like Rob said.

Go boa. They are mellow, get larger enough to be impressive but not huge to require 2 people to move. Boas get on average 4-8' depending on locality, sex, and feeding. Another good choice would be a super dwarf retic but you would want a pure locality like Kalatoa. They get about 6' or so. Now if you get a morph with sd blood, its kind of a guessing game to size as to how much the mainland blood influences it but I would be prepared for 10'+. As for burm, you could get a dwarf burm which will be about 6' too but they on Lacey Act so they cant be transported across state lines.

Bottomline is if you go for a SD retic, make sure you know the parents size, how many generations of SD it is and what % SD it is or if its a pure locality.

I think a carpet python would be good. Much more length without the bulk and weight of some of the other choices.

Boa would make sense. But if your ok with a larger snake I would recommend and burm. I would do my homework first though .

If your unsure or doubting keeping a Burm or Retic in anyway I would get a boa . If your certain and are committed I would recommend a Burm or Retic .

Another vote for boa. BCI, BCC, Dumerils - all get up to a decent size. Don't let the Dum fool you either, while they don't get quite as long as the other two, they're much heavier-bodied and insanely strong.

Please understand that with these types of questions, the best that we can offer you is a highly biased opinion, of which you should probably not put much weight into. None of us could possibly know enough about you or your situation to produce an answer for you.

Now, with that disclaimer, here is my highly biased opinion: don't get a boa just because they are smaller than burms/retics, and bigger than corns. Yes, both retics and burms will get significantly bigger than boas. However, a smaller size in no way guarantees a more manageable animal, or a better experience. As with any animal, there is definitive individual variation for all three of these species. I have 4 boas, 2 retics and 1 burm. Out of all these snakes my most unruly and aggressive one is a boa. My burms and retics have never tagged me, or even attempted an aggressive posture. In the past I had a dwarf retic, much smaller than all the others, and it shredded my hand every time I handled him. Point is: your purchase of a large constrictor needs to be based off of your love and interest for that individual animal, rather than that it just fits the basic parameters.

We we have all heard the old adage that retics are smart and quick, and burms are slow and dumb. My experiences lend no credit to this. These animals are all MUCH smarter than we give them credit for.

Also, please don't let internet images of gigantic retics and burms frighten you away from them. The Internet is rife with people over feeding large constrictors just to show off their size, mostly resulting in a snake with a vastly shorter lifespan. Most male retics and burms can be comfortably kept around the 10' mark, with a healthy and planned feeding routine. It is also rare to find females of both species over the 15' mark in captivity. Specimens over this size are usually highly over fed. This means that most males can be kept in a 4' T8 size AP cage, and females in a 6' enclosure indefinitely.

I love my boas dearly, but as I have gotten into retics and burms over the last few years I found that many people wrongly discount them solely based on size.

I know this thread has been inactive for a little while, but its super interesting as i too want to upgrade in size at some point. i have a CA boa; dont know if its technically considered a "dwarf" but at 2 years old and he's just under 3' and about as thick as broom handle at his widest point so i dont envision an adult size any bigger than 4 to 4.5 ft (but please tell me if you disagree). In my mind i am between a full-sized boa and a male burm. Personally, I happen to think retics are the most beutiful, but i do get a little nervous about temperament as i have kids who might not be able to "read" them like an adult could so it seems like the general even tempered burm might be a safer bet (while fully acknowledging Josh's point about individual personalities vs species generalities). I have a question about housing - I have a spot all picked out for a 6' by 3' enclosure - is this even big enough for a male burm? and also, what kind of height do they like? With a boa, i plan to go 3' tall with sturdy climbing structures (does anyone think taller would be better? i have the room to go a bit taller but dont want to waste the space if its not going to be used) . But i havn't been able to find much about whether or not burms will climb if given the chance. This isn't a collection, this is [going to be] one big pet, so i am happy to give it as much room as it will actually enjoy, but i dont want to build an artificial floor-to-ceiling rainforrest for an animal who really just wants to curl up under a rock either.

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Originally Posted by dkatz4

Personally, I happen to think retics are the most beutiful, but i do get a little nervous about temperament as i have kids who might not be able to "read" them like an adult could so it seems like the general even tempered burm might be a safer bet.

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If you love retics get one. They do not have a bad temperament, as you said you know it all depends on the individual animal. You could get a very defensive burm same as you could get a defensive retic. Burms in general are just a lot slower moving, but retics in no way have a bad temperament most captive bred retics are sweethearts. With kids you would have to take the same precautions with any large snake, a proper high quality cage being number one. You just need to know your animal.



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Originally Posted by Rob

If you love retics get one. They do not have a bad temperament, as you said you know it all depends on the individual animal. You could get a very defensive burm same as you could get a defensive retic. Burms in general are just a lot slower moving, but retics in no way have a bad temperament most captive bred retics are sweethearts. With kids you would have to take the same precautions with any large snake, a proper high quality cage being number one. You just need to know your animal.

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This. You could also look at purchasing an older critter rather than a baby, and ask the seller about temperament before you buy.

I have to second what Rob is saying. Out of all my snakes my two retics are the easiest going of the whole lot. Retics have an unearned temperament reputation from the early days of wild caught specimens, and the stigma refused to die for a while. As long as you are prepared to be able to house/handle a full grown retic's size, then you will do just fine.

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Originally Posted by dkatz4

I know this thread has been inactive for a little while, but its super interesting as i too want to upgrade in size at some point. i have a CA boa; dont know if its technically considered a "dwarf" but at 2 years old and he's just under 3' and about as thick as broom handle at his widest point so i dont envision an adult size any bigger than 4 to 4.5 ft (but please tell me if you disagree). In my mind i am between a full-sized boa and a male burm. Personally, I happen to think retics are the most beutiful, but i do get a little nervous about temperament as i have kids who might not be able to "read" them like an adult could so it seems like the general even tempered burm might be a safer bet (while fully acknowledging Josh's point about individual personalities vs species generalities). I have a question about housing - I have a spot all picked out for a 6' by 3' enclosure - is this even big enough for a male burm? and also, what kind of height do they like? With a boa, i plan to go 3' tall with sturdy climbing structures (does anyone think taller would be better? i have the room to go a bit taller but dont want to waste the space if its not going to be used) . But i havn't been able to find much about whether or not burms will climb if given the chance. This isn't a collection, this is [going to be] one big pet, so i am happy to give it as much room as it will actually enjoy, but i dont want to build an artificial floor-to-ceiling rainforrest for an animal who really just wants to curl up under a rock either.

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6x3 is plenty for a male burm, and male retic, even some adult female retics. I wouldnt go into this at first building a large enclosure. You will want to buy a baby of whichever species you choose, and grow it up to an adult. Yes they grow fast, but they dont become monsters over night. My male albino burm is approaching 1 year pretty soon, and he is still in a 41 qt tub with plenty of room. These snakes like to feel comfort in an appropriately sized enclosure.

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Originally Posted by bcr229

This. You could also look at purchasing an older critter rather than a baby, and ask the seller about temperament before you buy.

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Im always wary of buying older snakes for a few reasons. First, its not me taking care of the animal for the years before I purchase it. I know the high level of care that I give to my snakes, and Im always skeptical of another's care. Second, descriptions of an animals behavior are very subjective. What one person thinks is calm and manageable could be vastly different than another's. Even if you observe the animal before purchasing, transferring the animal to a new location and environment can result in behavioral changes. Third, getting an animal young allows you the time to mature and grow together, learn the unique personality and behavior of your pet, and develop trust. I think it could be very overwhelming going from no retic, to an adult one over night.

Agreed . . Most of my retics are terrific docile animals. .......Some can certainly be piss ants as well .......... Lol

Definitely. If the OP wants to get a hatchling, I recommend looking at what Andy Deitz (AD reptiles), or Chase Delles (Chase-N-Reptiles) has available. Both these guys sent me tons of pictures and videos of them holding and interacting with the specific retic I was inquiring about.

I second the opinion regarding the intelligence of retics. Unfortunately that means they can have much stronger opinions regarding what they do and do not want (to be handled, to escape, etc.). I personally would not only get a baby, I would only pick one out in person from the breeder and only after looking at all of its clutch mates so you can see the difference in attitude between them.
I agree that the bad attitute is for the most part unearned however there is a chance of getting one that will simply never appreciate your presence or may always be cage aggressive. Our Black pastel female BP may have been born a BP but clearly identifies herself as a Tasmanian devil. NO matter how much work we do with her she is ALWAYS cage agressive and can never be trusted 100%.
When I was in college I worked at a family owned reptile shop that specialized in exotic snakes. My job was to work with them and make them suitable as pets. For the most part I was successful but there were a couple that no matter how much I worked with them they would always have an issue that made me question their intentions. I managed to get everything from scrub pythons to GTP's so docile that kids could handle them (with supervision) and although some species took more work than others, I have yet to find an entire species I could not work with. With that said there were some individual animals (captive bread and wc) that simply did not like people and there was no changing their mind.
For a ball python that is not much of an issue however for a retic in a house with kids, I would be very selective.

After owning retics and burms for a while now, I dont buy the argument that they are smarter than other snake species. My male retic acts like a complete dope, while my male burm is sharp as a tack, and constantly aware of what is going on.

While selectivity is good when picking out giant pythons, ultimately I believe the safety factor comes down to the adult responsible. Regardless of whether the snake is horrifically aggressive or puppy tame, the same measures need to be employed to keep the retic contained day to day, and supervised when children are present. Even if a snake hasnt exhibited any aggressive tendencies, I think it is always paramount to maintain the same caution. At a minimum, the retic needs to be in a competent enclosure that is locked, and preferably in a room that can lock from the outside as well. Redundancy in safety is always preferable to me.

As usual, i am humbled by the generosity of wisdom in this group, but i fear i may have inadvertently hijacked the thread :O

I would love to hear from the OP and find out if she's leaning one way or the other. And lets not forget she had boas on the list as well.

I think you will find that frequently on this forum that the OP actually ends up taking a back seat in the discussion, or gets bored and stops responding.

I think my main point for this thread is to warn people against making the decision on purchasing their next snake based on what is 'next up' size wise. I feel it has become an unintended circumstance of internet fourms like this one that propagate the notion that BPs and colubrids are starter snakes, and that retics and burms are only for a select few, with all other snakes falling somewhere in the spectrum between.

Boas are wonderful animals, and I love mine to death. Yet I still dont think one should buy a boa, and negate a retic or burm, just because a boa is bigger than a BP and stays smaller than retics.

I would agree with Josh for the most part, choosing a snake just because it's the next snake up on the size chart isn't always the way to do it. But that being said, I do think retics and the larger snakes are going to attract a smaller demographic than most other snakes. So I would say they are in a sense for a select few. There's just not as many people willing or have the means to keep 15-20 foot snakes as there are people willing to keep smaller ones. As we know they require a lot more ummm everything, they are not cheap to keep. Besides the initial investment of the snake. Everything bigger means bigger $$$ Bigger caging, bigger prey items, bigger tools of the trade, I go through more F10/cleaning materials than I can count. Bigger snakes, bigger responsibility all the way around. Now all that being said, I'm obviously not trying to talk the OP or anyone else out of getting into retics. They are to me anyway, the most rewarding animal you can keep. You just need to consider everything that comes with keeping them, and if you still want to get into them I'm sure it will be an awesome experience and the retic will quickly become your favorite snake. [emoji1303]

Now if you read all that let me pounce on this cheap opportunity to share a pic of one of my gals

How could you not want to keep one?? [emoji4]
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...5dfed80dc0.jpg


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Are there not laws concerning the size of snake that you are allowed to keep, as well? Here, in Nova Scotia, there is a vague written law that a snake cannot be bigger than 9 feet (I believe that is what it states). I'm not sure who enforces it, probably Natural Resources. Most people around here are terrified of all snakes - evacuating a floor of an apartment building because a ball python escaped! But also, in our neighboring province, two little boys were killed by a Rock Python a couple years ago. To most people a snake = a snake, big, scary,killer, etc. When people see my 62 gm JCP they are amazed that snakes are ever that small. To me, my Hog Island will be as big as I want to deal with (try putting that 4 foot buggar back in his enclosure when he's not done exploring - brat!). I also can't afford much more space for big snakes.

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Originally Posted by BWB

Are there not laws concerning the size of snake that you are allowed to keep, as well? Here, in Nova Scotia, there is a vague written law that a snake cannot be bigger than 9 feet (I believe that is what it states). I'm not sure who enforces it, probably Natural Resources. Most people around here are terrified of all snakes - evacuating a floor of an apartment building because a ball python escaped! But also, in our neighboring province, two little boys were killed by a Rock Python a couple years ago. To most people a snake = a snake, big, scary,killer, etc. When people see my 62 gm JCP they are amazed that snakes are ever that small. To me, my Hog Island will be as big as I want to deal with (try putting that 4 foot buggar back in his enclosure when he's not done exploring - brat!). I also can't afford much more space for big snakes.

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Sorry to hear about the laws in your area. In the US, most of us at least, are attempting to keep big government out of our homes and out of the decisions that we make. There are already ludicrous laws regarding the transport of various large species across state lines, and some local ordinances are popping up here and there. However, on a whole, no there arent laws in most places regulating the size of snake can be kept. A few areas have licensing and other restrictions, but as a whole size is currently not an issue.

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Originally Posted by BWB

Are there not laws concerning the size of snake that you are allowed to keep, as well? Here, in Nova Scotia, there is a vague written law that a snake cannot be bigger than 9 feet (I believe that is what it states). I'm not sure who enforces it, probably Natural Resources. Most people around here are terrified of all snakes - evacuating a floor of an apartment building because a ball python escaped! But also, in our neighboring province, two little boys were killed by a Rock Python a couple years ago. To most people a snake = a snake, big, scary,killer, etc. When people see my 62 gm JCP they are amazed that snakes are ever that small. To me, my Hog Island will be as big as I want to deal with (try putting that 4 foot buggar back in his enclosure when he's not done exploring - brat!). I also can't afford much more space for big snakes.

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IIRC the rock pythons in that incident were eventually exonerated.

Also I'd rather deal with a ten foot snake that's chill than a five footer that wants to tag me every chance it gets.

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Originally Posted by Rob

I would agree with Josh for the most part, choosing a snake just because it's the next snake up on the size chart isn't always the way to do it. But that being said, I do think retics and the larger snakes are going to attract a smaller demographic than most other snakes. So I would say they are in a sense for a select few. There's just not as many people willing or have the means to keep 15-20 foot snakes as there are people willing to keep smaller ones. As we know they require a lot more ummm everything, they are not cheap to keep. Besides the initial investment of the snake. Everything bigger means bigger $$$ Bigger caging, bigger prey items, bigger tools of the trade, I go through more F10/cleaning materials than I can count. Bigger snakes, bigger responsibility all the way around. Now all that being said, I'm obviously not trying to talk the OP or anyone else out of getting into retics. They are to me anyway, the most rewarding animal you can keep. You just need to consider everything that comes with keeping them, and if you still want to get into them I'm sure it will be an awesome experience and the retic will quickly become your favorite snake. [emoji1303]

Now if you read all that let me pounce on this cheap opportunity to share a pic of one of my gals

How could you not want to keep one?? [emoji4]
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...5dfed80dc0.jpg


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im guna pounce with you man . Nice ivory ,):taz:

http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/...pshrs1unch.jpg

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Originally Posted by Andylee11

im guna pounce with you man . Nice ivory ,):taz:

http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/...pshrs1unch.jpg

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Nice!
Lol this thread is going all over the place, I don't think the OP would mind. I could talk retics all day.


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I trust my retic more then my ball. Just saying.

My male retic and male burm are a breeze. Female retic strikes the front of the tub, but is a puppy once you let her know food isnt coming.