Problem Feeder

Ive had my BP here for a few weeks and i have yet to get her to eat.

Shes about 6 months old and very small (smaller since i posted pictures of her weeks back). Her breeder had her on live pups, and im transitioning her to frozen. Last week she struck at a frozen pup, but tried to eat it arm first, she eventually gave up. This week, she seems more interested in trying to get out of the door and not paying the food any attention. Ive noticed for the last few days that she is looking for ways out.

Her cool end is about 78-80, hot end 90-92 and her humidity hovers around the 50-60 area. I havent handled her in 2-3 weeks besides getting her unstuck from areas she likes to get into. Im not sure if I should resort to trying the chicken broth trick, if i should get her a live pup, or if i should take her to a vet to have them give her fluids. I wouldnt be concerned about an older snake, but this one is young and was already underweight 3 weeks ago.

Any opinions? Thanks!

Have you tried pre-killed? If you don't want to feed live and she's used to live, try that first.

What do you do with the rat after she gives up? Do you leave it overnight or take it from the enclosure right away? Is her enclosure dark, secure, etc?

She's only given up once, other times she has just cowered away from it. We have another BP that eats when she doesnt, so I dont waste the pups. Their tanks have LED lights on a schedule, during the day they are a cool white, at 8pm they turn to a dim blue, then at midnight they turn to a barely visible blue.

One of my girls used to cower at live and f/t even if they were smaller than her. She would only eat if I left her alone with them overnight in complete darkness.

I would try turning the lights (or at least hers) completely off and see if that makes a difference. If not, I would try mice or asfs if you can find them. I wouldn't go to the vet until exhausting more options imo since that's going to be extremely stressful for her.

At what point should I take her to the vet? She looks pretty skinny and dehydrated. Also, yes/no on the chicken broth?

Can you post a picture of her? I've never personally tried chicken broth but I don't see the harm if you want to. Personally I'd try a live pup first, if you're comfortable feeding live, since that's what she's used to

http://imgur.com/a/3eRFX

Couple of pictures I just took of her trying to break out.

Ball pythons (like many snakes) can feel insecure when they are in open spaces, areas with bright lights, etc. In the wild they pretty much spend a huge amount of time in rodent burrows, crammed into tiny dark spaces. When they feel stressed, the first thing to go is feeding. What I would do here is 1) get rid of the lights. Leave the animal in darkness. If you must have lights right now, use red LEDs. 2) Ideally I would put this snake in a much smaller enclosure. A shoebox or equivalent (feeling secure is key). 3) Where is the animal spending most of its time, warm end or cool? Place a secure hid box there. Consider adding one at each end. 4) When the snake is sitting with its head outside the hide box, you are pretty much being told it is ready for food. You can try two things - a live mouse (what size is the snake. In the pictures it looks like it could eat a medium to large mouse). Do not bother with a rat pup or fluff mouse as they lose body heat fast. Try a larger rodent, or ideally, you could go for a defrost mouse of appropriate size, super heated. I defrost rodents at room temp, then place them on a heat pad for 15 minutes or so. Then I offer of long forceps. All of my snakes (30+ ball pythons, 70+ boas) are defrost eaters.

The snake does not look ill, starving, or dehydrated in the picture.

Warren

I agree with everything Warren said :) that enclosure looks huge, does it have hides on either side?

In any case don't stress too much over it, she'll come around eventually.

The tank is large, but it has alot of clutter, she has 2 hides, she had 3 but she hated the smallest one. she does stick her head out of her favorite hide alot, part of me knew this was the perfect time to feed her. She spends most of her time in the cool end.

I just put in some food and left it to see if she takes it. I turned out the lights and covered the tank with a fitted sheet.

Like everyone has said... From your enclosure, the tank looks WAY too large for her with way too much open space. These picky ball pythons often need to feel very secure in order to have an appetite.

I wouldn't call that a lot of clutter- that is a lot of open space. She has hides, but proportionate to the amount of space, it is still too little clutter/hides.

Some ball pythons may be fine with this setup, but since you are having a picky eater and having trouble, then you can start with fixing these possibilities first. Especially since she is recently just refusing the food in front of them and wanting to find a way out- seems to be usually an indication that they don't feel secure, so want to find somewhere safer.

How much does she weigh right now?

Just guessing her current size, I think temporarily moving her to a new home (a 15qt sterilite plastic tub, with two hides and a UTH) to get her to start eating would be ideal. Some snakes will eat food left in there overnight, but I think more likely than not for your snake, the reason is the setup...

You can check out this: http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...e-Basics-*DUW*

It looks like more space because i had to move everything to one side temporarily because she was using it to climb on things she shouldnt have been.

Today I redistributed the clutter, and I altered her hides to have less space on the insides. Her light is dim red and the tank is covered with a sheet. She spent a fair bit of time on the hot side today, which she usually doesnt do. Some sign of progress maybe.

Its been a few more weeks and still no luck. Yesterday i finally gave in and readied a tub for her. its about 18x11x8.

http://i.imgur.com/SHmFKgP.jpg?1

Problem is, she seems to strongly dislike being in such a small space. The few times she isn't in her hide, shes trying to get out of it. Im getting a little worried because she seems far more stressed than she was the other day. Also, the lid of this tub is riddled with holes and im having trouble getting the humidity to stay below 80.

Could someone please help :/ ive done everything suggested and nothing is working. I dont want this snake to die on me.

as soon as i open up the small tub, she just wants to get out. temps and humidity are perfect but she isnt interested in the rats at all.

What are the temps in the new setup?
Have you handled her?
How long has she been in the new setup before offering food?
How did you offer food?
Have you tried live mice?
What is her weight?

Is the snake still in a brightly lit place?

When i first brought her, i handled her a couple of times, but when i saw that feeding was going to be a problem, I havent handled her at all in about 6 weeks.

Her cool side is 80, her warm side is 92, she is in a tiny tub blacked out on 3 sides. Humidity is 60. The tub is actually inside of the tank because the temp/humidity is already controlled there. The tank is covered with a blanket constantly and her lights are off.

I offer food every sunday at about 10-11pm, ive thawed them several different ways, lukewarm water as well as completely out in the open in the snake room to get the scent going, then i heat it up some with a blow dryer. I grab it at its lower back and move it around like it is alive, and she just slithers past it to the opening of the tub and tries to get out. Ive tried braining, live rodent bedding as well as chicken broth (no idea why it would work but ive read about it)

I havent offered live yet because im not sure if it is a prey issue or a husbandry issue. Id rather not end up with a pet rat if she doesnt eat it. Last I weighed her was about 2 weeks ago, she was at around 110g, a little bit less than she was when I got her some time ago. I noticed she doesnt use her hot hide, im wondering if she doesnt like it, but I made the opening alot smaller, maybe i'll just get 2 cheap bowls and make her new hides.

That's probably gonna be it then, she a live feeder. everything else seems ok, her setup,temps, her being alone.

If it were a prey issue, wouldnt she just ignore the rat? What bothers me is that the second I open the tub, she immediately goes to get out of it. It doesnt seem like she is comfortable at all.

edit: also, she has struck and attempted to eat a thawed one before.

the only time my snakes is ever active like how you mention is when hes hungry but once he eats he never moves, try the live rat. i think she just a live eater. shes never eaten f/t right?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HanabiraAsashi

When i first brought her, i handled her a couple of times, but when i saw that feeding was going to be a problem, I havent handled her at all in about 6 weeks.

Her cool side is 80, her warm side is 92, she is in a tiny tub blacked out on 3 sides. Humidity is 60. The tub is actually inside of the tank because the temp/humidity is already controlled there. The tank is covered with a blanket constantly and her lights are off.

I offer food every sunday at about 10-11pm, ive thawed them several different ways, lukewarm water as well as completely out in the open in the snake room to get the scent going, then i heat it up some with a blow dryer. I grab it at its lower back and move it around like it is alive, and she just slithers past it to the opening of the tub and tries to get out. Ive tried braining, live rodent bedding as well as chicken broth (no idea why it would work but ive read about it)

I havent offered live yet because im not sure if it is a prey issue or a husbandry issue. Id rather not end up with a pet rat if she doesnt eat it. Last I weighed her was about 2 weeks ago, she was at around 110g, a little bit less than she was when I got her some time ago. I noticed she doesnt use her hot hide, im wondering if she doesnt like it, but I made the opening alot smaller, maybe i'll just get 2 cheap bowls and make her new hides.

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Lower the temps to 86/88 (92 is too hot for a small tub.

Get 1 or 2 plastic flower pot saucer to use as hides (6 inches wide) hides must be tight which mean low profile.

Once you made those changes wait 5 days (NO HANDLING) and offer a live small live mouse, in the evening, in the tub and remove after 10 min if not eaten.

out of curiosity, why is 92 too warm for belly heat in a plastic tub? I wouldnt think its any different for a glass enclosure.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HanabiraAsashi

out of curiosity, why is 92 too warm for belly heat in a plastic tub? I wouldnt think its any different for a glass enclosure.

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Because in such a small tub it is and does not allow for much room to thermoregulate, additionally hatchlings seems to do better around 86/88 (and I have help troubleshoot a few feeding issues ;))

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

So I put in the new hides last night, and so far I don't think she's gone inside them at all. I see her curled up behind or sprawled up behind one of them. Im pretty sure she is sleeping outside of the hides as well. Maybe because the tank is so dark and covered she is treating the entire tub as a hide??

Earlier I turned on a dim light with this assumption to see what she would do, she stuck her head inside of the hide to get out of the light until I turned it off.

As per instruction, I lowered her hot side to 88, left b her alone for a week and a half except to clean a bit after pee/urates. I finally found a place wth live feeders, put it in her tank
... it honestly seemed like she would make friends with it before eating it. They took turns sniffing each other, then the snake started trying t find away out of the tub again. At a total loss at what to do with this snake and my apparently new pet rat.