How Do Big Breeders Stay in Business?

I've been curious about this for a while. I only know of three to five large-scale breeders that I've seen on youtube and various online sites. Some of them specialize in ball pythons, some of them don't. Over the years of looking at the trade and hovering on this forum I've seen many people on here (who are small to mid sized breeders as far as I can tell) selling off 90% of their collections and leaving the business because they can't afford it anymore.

So how do the breeders that have been in this business for twenty years or more stay in? How do they keep the lights on and the rent paid on their warehouses?

BHB, for example, has more than just ball pythons. They breed and sell a number of reptile species, and I never see a big influx of baby balls on their website even when I know it's got to be hatchling season for them.

My dream goal in ten to twenty years is to be a big breeder myself, though I'm definitely not going to specialize in ball pythons. I love all sorts of reptiles. I'm planning on having a job on the side and another home business going, so I'm not counting on the reptile business to pay all my financial wants and needs. As long as it keeps itself afloat I'll be happy to enjoy my collection.

Its all in marketing. ;)

Don't forget that some big breeders may sell animals wholesale to traditional pet store style retailers or for science purposes. I'm pretty certain some of the huge crested gecko breeders pick out their absolute best for holdbacks and sales, then send the excess babies to retailers like Petsmart and Petco. I also seem to recall that at least one of the giant snake breeders commonly culls unwanted colors in order to keep their stock numbers under control in such a limited market.

The other thing that happens is the big breeders are capable of "racing to the bottom". Their per-unit cost of raising a snake is usually less than a small breeder's; it's called "economies of scale". A big breeder can get a bulk discount on frozen rats whereas a small or hobby breeder might never need that many at once. A big breeder can also devote facilities to nothing but producing snakes; smaller businesses need to share production space with their families at minimum. And so on and so on.

Now the part I can't figure out is why hobby breeders don't do well enough to stick around; smaller breeders often sell much less expensive animals that have the same genetics. You'd think by the almighty hand of capitalism that a customer would look at the bottom prices and go up from there. The demand seems to be simultaneously high and nonexistent. Ball pythons are a fickle market.

Many of the most successful big breeders also have hustled and marketed to get to where they are. They didn't just go out, buy up a bunch of snakes and boom, successful business! They built it up by spending a great deal of money on original stock, by marketing their animals to all of the best buyers including individuals, and making certain they keep a good reputation not only for quality animals but also good customer service.

Having an outlet for "less desirable" snakes like male normals is a very important part of selling ball pythons. Selling healthy, well-started ball python babies instead of unfed, dehydrated African imports can make a huge difference to a pet store, so many smart pet stores will want animals from the breeders instead of trying to import their own and keep them alive and get them adjusted.
(Note: not all African imports that are sold are sold as dehydrated unfed hatchlings, but it takes effort and time to get them feeding and not many pet stores do that)

It's easy to look at a "big breeder" and fall into some "Oh they don't care about the snakes, it's all about the money!" mentality just becuase they are a BIG breeder and there's some stigma against 'big business' or 'industry'. But a big breeder with thousands of snakes can be just as passionate and very knowledgable about their animals. I've met lousy small breeders too.

Many of the small breeders that fall out of the hobby either lose interest when it's obvious that doing all this ends up being a LOT of work and requires a LOT of patience and you can be wiped out with one random sick snake... or their life changes, either moving for work, starting a family or suddenly not having enough time when they really get into breeding. It doesn't mean they were bad at it or bad people... but that they decided that they don't want to continue breeding. I've been at the ragged edge of giving it up a few times.

TL;DR? Big breeders that are successful put a TON of hard work into building their business up over a long period of time. If you want to do it too, be prepared to put in the same time and effort(and money).

Staying on top of the trends and cutting back in areas that are in decline.

If you have many sources of revenue, you really only 1 or 2 to be fashionable and you're profitable while you build up higher end stock in areas that aren't as popular.

It's all a cycle.

This is exactly the kind of discussion I wanted to get started.

Here's my next question, would a storefront be feasible? As in, having a small pet shop where reptiles could be sold locally? I've seen "starter kits" online, but I think it would be better to have starter kits that could be assembled for each species, such as custom cages for local pickup (for reptiles that require higher humidity and won't do well in screen top cages, etc). It seems like a lot of people in this hobby are reliant on a very few distributors for custom cages and equipment, or they have to become a construction expert (not a real expert, I'm exaggerating) in order to create their own cages and equipment to fit the needs of their hobby. For me, there are only two petshops within feasible range for me; petco and a mom and pop shop that focuses on fish, cat and dog supplies with gardening supplies mixed in. I was looking for a terrarium while trying to avoid supporting petco and found myself greatly disappointed. The mom and pop pet store's display of reptiles consisted of a tarantula, two beardies, one half grown the other an adult, a few cresteds, toads, and leopard geckos. They had heat lamps and uth mats with no thermostats. It's discouraging that someone walking into that store off the street can pick up an aquarium, screen top, and heat light and walk back out with an animal and no knowledge of how to care for them. Petsmart and Petco provide pamphlets, but no specific starter kits, so they end up selling people who walk in on an animal they don't really know how to care for, and they usually don't read the books, with a setup that won't really work long term.

Diversity is always key, as is location. If I am ever able to open my own pet store like this, I would definitely be interested in local education programs, events and helping to educate the public in general. I think the weakness of this hobby is that there are so few people out there promoting a change in the thought process of the public view of reptiles. I remember someone bringing a burm or a retic to my elementary school, I can't remember which except that it was definitely an albino and took several people to hold it fully stretched out. I remember petting it and thinking "snakes aren't slimy, they're soft!" It was the first spark that made me think of reptiles as cool, interesting critters.

You can be successful with a storefront but it is difficult to run a pet store. I've known too many that I've gone out of business over the years. Many more that have gone out than stayed and been successful. The best ones keep their overhead down, treat their customers and animals right, and run a clean store. A few places are able to only sell reptiles but they are outliers. Unless you live in an area where the underserved reptile retail pet market is so high that it can support a reptile only store, expect to also sell fish, birds, and small mammals.

Regarding custom enclosures, one of the pet store owners I talk with really enjoys making custom enclosures for the animals. She would put every animal in a custom enclosure and send one home with each buyer if you could. But she can't. It's too expensive to make all the ones in the stores that way, other than a couple showcases, and very few customers are willing to pay for it.

All the local city red tape can be enough to put them under within the first year or two.

A store front comes with high rent. (If you are fortunate enough to own that building outright, it would probably be a better business decision to rent it to someone else.)

Also, there is a lot of down time just to staff it, when you realistically can't be doing anything requiring much more concentration than cleaning glass, or pushing a broom. People will be just browsing much of the time. The serious informed hobbyiests (spell?) with the dedication, and MONEY will be shopping the internet where the real selection is. Your customers will mostly be families with little kids. With few exceptions, most of them will essentially want a throw-away pet, and they won't want to spend much money on it.

Just the way the market is.

The big breeders started when you can sell single gene animals for 100k a pop.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PhoenixGate

Here's my next question, would a storefront be feasible? As in, having a small pet shop where reptiles could be sold locally? I've seen "starter kits" online, but I think it would be better to have starter kits that could be assembled for each species, such as custom cages for local pickup (for reptiles that require higher humidity and won't do well in screen top cages, etc). It seems like a lot of people in this hobby are reliant on a very few distributors for custom cages and equipment, or they have to become a construction expert (not a real expert, I'm exaggerating) in order to create their own cages and equipment to fit the needs of their hobby.

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The B&M's I know of that thrive do so because they produce feeders, not enclosures. They supply a product that keepers need every week. Enclosures, not so much.

I've toyed with the idea of doing PVC enclosures for local sales only; it's the shipping costs that are killer. We already have a machine shop for the gun business so there wouldn't be any up-front capital costs or additional permits needed to get started.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PhoenixGate

This is exactly the kind of discussion I wanted to get started.

Here's my next question, would a storefront be feasible? As in, having a small pet shop where reptiles could be sold locally? I've seen "starter kits" online, but I think it would be better to have starter kits that could be assembled for each species, such as custom cages for local pickup (for reptiles that require higher humidity and won't do well in screen top cages, etc). It seems like a lot of people in this hobby are reliant on a very few distributors for custom cages and equipment, or they have to become a construction expert (not a real expert, I'm exaggerating) in order to create their own cages and equipment to fit the needs of their hobby. For me, there are only two petshops within feasible range for me; petco and a mom and pop shop that focuses on fish, cat and dog supplies with gardening supplies mixed in. I was looking for a terrarium while trying to avoid supporting petco and found myself greatly disappointed. The mom and pop pet store's display of reptiles consisted of a tarantula, two beardies, one half grown the other an adult, a few cresteds, toads, and leopard geckos. They had heat lamps and uth mats with no thermostats. It's discouraging that someone walking into that store off the street can pick up an aquarium, screen top, and heat light and walk back out with an animal and no knowledge of how to care for them. Petsmart and Petco provide pamphlets, but no specific starter kits, so they end up selling people who walk in on an animal they don't really know how to care for, and they usually don't read the books, with a setup that won't really work long term.

Diversity is always key, as is location. If I am ever able to open my own pet store like this, I would definitely be interested in local education programs, events and helping to educate the public in general. I think the weakness of this hobby is that there are so few people out there promoting a change in the thought process of the public view of reptiles. I remember someone bringing a burm or a retic to my elementary school, I can't remember which except that it was definitely an albino and took several people to hold it fully stretched out. I remember petting it and thinking "snakes aren't slimy, they're soft!" It was the first spark that made me think of reptiles as cool, interesting critters.

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Yes diversity is the key.

About 7 years ago I got laid off after working 30 years with the same company. I felt sorry for myself for a couple of days, but soon found myself canvasing the local schools asking them if they would like to hire me to come to their school to do educational presentations on reptiles. It was at that time that For Goodness Snakes Adventures was created. Now 6 years later I'm booking between 200 and 300 educational presentations per year in the San Francisco Bay Area.

Not only do I get to produce beautiful snakes, but I get to share my passion about those beautiful snakes with thousands here in the Bay Brea.

I'm one of the lucky ones that gets to live the dream.

Best of luck with your dream.

Brian Gundy
For Goodness Snakes
408-981-6694

A physical pet store is hard to keep afloat because you have to mark up your product(animals) so much that often the only people who will pay the prices are people who haven't done any research. Also, you'll have to compete with the chain store prices, since people will usually go to the cheapest source. Why should they come to you if they can get it for 10% of the price elsewhere? Then you have all the paperwork, cleaning, stocking, hustling for contacts and stock sources, waiting on customers while taking care of the animals AND your own animals and hey, family and relaxation and sleep come into play at some point.

Half the reason I was attracted to the storefront was that it would provide an official business address and possibly be a place where I could sell normals and some one and two gene animals. I already plan on breeding feeder animals for my collection later on. Selling feeders at the store, and shipping pre-killed ones from there, would also work.

I know a lot of the big breeders that exist now got their start selling the first morphs available on the market for a lot of money. My original question was how do they stay afloat now. That initial big money was twenty years or more ago and wouldn't cover the cost of business today. They have to be selling animals on a regular basis in order to stay afloat, but all the threads and posts I can track down online say a variety of things; "they're tricking people into buying animals for $2,000+ and thinking they can be just as successful" is one of them. Business practices like that aren't sustainable though.

Obviously I don't work in a big breeder's warehouse and see all the day to day goings on, so I'm curious as to how the numbers crunch together, how the wheels keep turning and the lights stay on. As for the pet store, it may never happen. It was an odd thought and I think, If I were to pick my spot well and not overspecialize in reptiles, that it would work. It might fall through, it might never get going. I understand that.

It's sure fun to discuss the idea though. Thank you to everyone who has posted on the thread so far.

I don't think anyone "tricks" someone into buying $2K snakes. If someone actually thinks that they can pay $2K for a new morph that is on the market, take the time to raise that snake to maturity to breed it(minimum1-2 years)and then get the SAME price when other people have also been producing and selling that same morph... that's the buyer being a little delusional.

If you breed a lot of snakes, you market them well and sell out each season, you'll probably do well. But you have to have a market that will buy all of your snakes, from normal males to high end morph combos.

They stay in business because it is a business. They know their margins, overhead, income potential, budget ect. If you treat it like a business and you huddle and work you have a much better chance at staying in business.


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