What a waste...

So I went to the All-MD show yesterday and bought a bag of 50 mice for $30 which I thought was a pretty good deal... until I got them home and realized that the idiot who sold them and packed them had SLIT THEIR THROATS to kill them.

First... who in the hell has the time or inclination to sit there and slit tiny mouse throats for hours at a time?

Second... why the hell would you do this for frozen/thawed prey, knowing that when you thaw it, the blood seeps out, makes a huge mess, and THEN when it's placed in the animals viv, the blood gets all over the effing place??

I am so pissed off about this and am kicking myself for not looking at them more closely... but seriously, who the hell kills mice this way?!

Ummmmm I'd say someone in the verge insanity who possibly might be a serial killer. Lol

Sent from my SM-G800R4 using Tapatalk

Was it a named vendor? I would hate to buy feeders at a show and be...surprised that way.

plus I personally wouldn't want to fund someone like that. But that's just me.

I mean slitting throats is a way people slaughter larger animals but would have never thought it would be feasible with mice lol. I would think they should still be usable other than the mess factor.

Ive heard stories of this nature before. People will sell off lab mice that they have bled for research purposes for feeders. Not only messy but less nutrition I'm sure.

No idea what the guys name is, but he's apparently the "regular" guy in the back corner closest to the door at the All-MD show. My jungle corn refused the mouse entirely and my big normal BP enjoyed making a complete mess with his. :cens0r:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by boaguy

Ive heard stories of this nature before. People will sell off lab mice that they have bled for research purposes for feeders. Not only messy but less nutrition I'm sure.

---

Usually Lab Specimens will be exsanguinated via a cardiac stick (after the animal is killed via CO2 and Cervical Dislocation, a small needle is used to remove the blood directly from the heart). Slitting the throat isn't a sterile method of blood collection, and thus has very little place in Laboratory Medicine. I've worked in Lab Animal Medicine before, and most protocols won't let the bodies just be sold off as feeders....do you know what the facility was researching??

my question would be why? Mephiboshbeth already said thats not the way a reputable lab draws blood from mics and rats, plus labs have to dispose of their specimens in accordance with hazardous biological protocols. What I'm wondering is what in the world is going on here? Makes me wonder if the man is some kind of sadist.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lorrainesmom

my question would be why? Mephiboshbeth already said thats not the way a reputable lab draws blood from mics and rats, plus labs have to dispose of their specimens in accordance with hazardous biological protocols. What I'm wondering is what in the world is going on here? Makes me wonder if the man is some kind of sadist.

---

Yeah. It is definitely creepy.

Weird.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lorrainesmom

Mephiboshbeth already said....

---

Worthy Effort; Just call me Meph or Mephi ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mephibosheth1

Worthy Effort; Just call me Meph or Mephi ;)

---

I usually just call you Meep in my head LOL.


Anyways, I cant think of a single reason other than the beginning down the slope to serial killer. And I do remember a report in a pysch periodical about many if not all... well.... thats how it starts.

SMH Glad it wasn't me who found that, As a vegetarian I have a hard enough time feeding. That would've put me right on over the cliff to crazy.

That's super weird. I mean, even as a slaughter method it's inefficient and messy. Little teeny mouse necks, have to hold them over a bucket until they finish bleeding. . .just not the easy way to do it. With approximately the same movement and effort they could break the rodent's neck. So yeah that's weird. If you can find an e-mail you could ask them what's up.

I wouldn't say it has anything to do with serial killer intentions etc. I can see why you would be put off but growing up around farms where slaughtering animals is just a part of life I can say that it is definitely a legitimate method of slaughter with larger animals.

It's just that it is somewhat absurd to do with mice because of the time it would take and the fact that there are so many easier ways to do it as willowy said. Not to mention you typically want feeders as close to full nutritional value as possible. Losing all that blood would take some of that away I would think.

Personally, I would think that anyone who would be in the business of euthanizing animals would do their best to make sure that they were doing it "properly". When I was breeding mice, I looked up the "proper" methods of euthanasia for mice as accepted in academia and Veterinary Medicine to ensure that none of my clients would be able to argue with me about the humanity of the euthanasia.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mephibosheth1

Personally, I would think that anyone who would be in the business of euthanizing animals would do their best to make sure that they were doing it "properly". When I was breeding mice, I looked up the "proper" methods of euthanasia for mice as accepted in academia and Veterinary Medicine to ensure that none of my clients would be able to argue with me about the humanity of the euthanasia.

---

Yes I agree. I'm just saying just because he didn't do it that way doesn't mean the guy's a serial killer lol.

Aside from the nutrition, wouldn't you also have a potential for dehydration with some species that get more of their moisture from their food and don't drink that much? If they keep consistently getting feeders that are missing so much blood? Also... Eww. What a mess.

I can tell you why, but only because I have an older brother who I'm sure, if he wasn't overweight and very religious, would have been a serial killer.

The brother I live with said once, when he and Andy were kids, a nest of baby birds fell from the tree. They weren't sure what to do with the babies, and Andy went into the barn and slit their throats one by one. My live-in brother had to hear them scream in pain an horror.

Andy also used to like collecting snails, carefully peeling off their shells, sticking them in a jar and when they were aaaaaalmost dead, pouring salt onto them.

Slitting the throats of mice sounds like similar behavior. Torturing small animals is psychopathic behavior. Why is he doing it? He's doing it because he likes doing it. He gets enjoyment out of torturing the mice.

Avoid the crap out of that guy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PhoenixGate

Avoid the crap out of that guy.

---

Yep, I plan to in the future. It's very messy and some of mine are refusing them. No sense in ever buying from him again.

Were they all bloody? How did you not see that when you bought them I guess what I'm wondering. You would think if you didn't want they were alive they would be all bloody. But if you did it after they were dead and you had a little bit more control over them they might not be that messy. Either way that's strange.

Only their throats were bloody, so I didn't see it until I took some out-- they were vac packed. It is odd... I don't know why he would have done it after they were dead, but there wasn't blood on their backs or paws or anything.... I will take a pic of one tonight and post it.

That's what I was thinking... if they were slit, they'd bleed all over their fur, I'd think. Is it at all possible that their necks broke after they were frozen? If they were vacuum sealed like you said, maybe the vacuum caused their heads to move a certain way that cracked them. I know several of the fuzzy rats I ordered online literally broke in half. I think they were frozen so hard, that they just cracked and broke in half like glass. Just a thought...


...or then again, that guy could be Norman Bates. :weirdface

I've heard of this before but I believe it was rats and the supplier was getting lab surplus. Usually in the reptile industry when someone says 'lab rats' in regards to feeders, they are never the mice/rats that were *used* in the lab (since those could have unknown chemicals or toxins), they are the overage/extras that were not needed by the lab. Some feeder suppliers buy from multiple sources including those lab surplus to fill orders. Google search finds various threads from 2008 and 2011 discussing others that have found the same thing (slit throat) with their feeders but as for the why it was done, I cannot speculate and doesn't look like it was ever found out why it occurred. As others mentioned, it seems very inefficient.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LittleTreeGuy

That's what I was thinking... if they were slit, they'd bleed all over their fur, I'd think. Is it at all possible that their necks broke after they were frozen? If they were vacuum sealed like you said, maybe the vacuum caused their heads to move a certain way that cracked them. I know several of the fuzzy rats I ordered online literally broke in half. I think they were frozen so hard, that they just cracked and broke in half like glass. Just a thought...


...or then again, that guy could be Norman Bates. :weirdface

---

I bought some fuzzies and hoppers locally that would break in half. They were just packed in a ziplock bag.

I believe that they broke in half because they were not physically developed yet. The stomach and back muscles are just not there yet. The peritoneum is thin, the skin at the abdomen is thin. Just handling them as they thaw, those undeveloped parts can not support the weight of the upper torso as you flip the fuzzies over by the tail to thaw. Or if you grab the head to turn over, the abdominal area can't support the weight of the lower body. Basically the thawing process is too rough for them.

Maybe he's into some sort of occult ritual that requires lots of mouse blood, a cauldron, eye of newt, mystic incantations, and is performed at full moon in a circle of stones that aligns with the sun on the solstice. Or maybe he was just trying to use kosher slaughtering methods, adapted for rodents?

People often slit throats to kill animals. In fact, slitting the throat properly should result in a very quick state of unconsciousness and then death as the brain's supply of O2 is shunted away immediately. Kosher slaughter of cattle for instance, the throat is slit and the animal is unconscious in seconds. That's when it's done PROPERLY.

I know the few videos I've watched about butchering guinea pigs in South America also slit the throats.

Now, to be true, it's not efficient, and seems rife with potential to get bitten by mice and messy and just plain odd. It can't result in an ideal feeder either. I definitely would not want feeders that have been bleed out to feed to my animals.

I really don't think snakes care if their dinner is kosher or not1

I've had that problem before but unfortunately mine came from the breeder I got Lucifer from... I called them and they just told me "buyers beware"..,. Lesson learned.

Now I purchase F/T from a local pet store. The only problem is their sizes very too much.

I was getting mine from the local pet store, but he's lost his damn mind lately... he wants $2.50 a piece for frozen rat pups. I have 8 (soon to be 9) snakes... and that's just way too much.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hypancistrus

I was getting mine from the local pet store, but he's lost his damn mind lately... he wants $2.50 a piece for frozen rat pups. I have 8 (soon to be 9) snakes... and that's just way too much.

---

I thought there was a local (private) supplier up your way who sold bulk feeders? Something like "East Coast Feeders"? Or is that the supplier who you purchased from at the show?

He was at that show because I bought hornworms from him, but I had already bought my rodents by the time I made it to his table. I'll keep him in mind for next time.

Super weird and how messy. A wildlife rehab place or zoo might take them, rather than go to waste if your snakes won't eat them.