Husbandry help

I've been having trouble with my super pastel eating and I got some advice to post pics of his enclosure. He has ate 4 meals in 2 and a half months. Temps and humidity are perfect. He gets interested then scared. Its very frustrating. Here is some pics and please let me know what you would change. I was thinking maybe of moving the hide that's front left to the middle but I'll see what comments I get first.

Good news is the killerbee I picked up last night just ate her first meal with me!

http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/...psussbajrc.jpg

http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/...pstnk6hm1p.jpg

http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/...psldm0pfv4.jpg

http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/...psrw1gpcay.jpg

Hey. I'm just wondering what size your royal is ? And what size the viv and hides are ?

That looks like a very secure/comfortable environment to me. I have a ball python like that that sometimes is interested and then gets scared. Its almost like a psychological thing with her lol. In order to get her to take the rat I can NEVER touch her with it as she instantly gets scared. Instead I just start wiggling it far away from her as she slowly approaches it on her own to take it. Sometimes takes 1-2 minutes to do this process. Hope that helps.

Also, there are just some bp's that are naturally picky or just not hungry. If your husbandry is good which it looks like its more than perfect I would just continue offering food once every week or two until he wants to take. Nothing really to be worried about if he's a healthy weight.

P.S. four meals in two and a half months would be about every other week? Thats pretty normal for many bp's in my experience to not want to eat more than that.

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Originally Posted by Scottywelsh

Hey. I'm just wondering what size your royal is ? And what size the viv and hides are ?

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My bp is about 2.5 feet long not sure of weight. When he balls up he touches sides of all hides. His favorite hide is the right cool side exo Terra snake hide, most likely bc the opening is much smaller then the others. He goes to the bathroom in the hot side log hide. He is now in a v400 was in v211 before but it was way to small IMO. He hasn't taken 3 meals in the v211 and 1 meal in the v400. He took his first meal in his snake cave cool hide and the other 3 meals he took were after handling him. He also has only ate red eyed white rats. The ones he's refused were not red eyed and white so is it possible he doesn't like or recognize another other color?

You could try covering the front of the tank with a piece of cardboard when it's feeding time. He might feel better about it if he can't see you. You can still peek around the edges to check up on him.

Don't take offense to this, but why would you get another snake when you're still working on perfecting the one you already have.

You should never use a hide with a hole in it, they can get stuck.

I see a wireless sensor in one of those pictures. I hope that's not taped. You should be checking your parameters where the snake lives, not 7 inches above it.

Also what are you parameters?
Heat source?

How big is the snake? That's a huge cage for anything but a large adult ball.

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Originally Posted by Coluber42

You could try covering the front of the tank with a piece of cardboard when it's feeding time. He might feel better about it if he can't see you. You can still peek around the edges to check up on him.

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I've read a few places to remove yourself view when feeding. I usually stand beside the cage so he can't see me. It's just frustrating. Every time he refuses I think I must be doing something wrong. First 2 times I tried feeding him he refused and then I found out he had mites. I used reptile relief and pam and then he ate 2 times in a row. I did 2 more treatments with reptile relief and 3 more of Pam. I thought that was the problem but he has no mites now and still no luck. Its especially frustrating now bc of the killerbee I picked up last night, not even 24hrs later she ate....now if she keeps eating on her scheduled days it will be even more frustrating. I know not all bp are the same, some are great eaters some are stubborn but that still isn't enough for me. I just want him to grow up to be a big healthy boy.

I don't know if you are feeding live or frozen? But i know my snake will turn down his rat if it isn't warm enough. With my guy it seems like the heat from the rat is what interests him most.

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Originally Posted by chrid16371

I've read a few places to remove yourself view when feeding. I usually stand beside the cage so he can't see me. It's just frustrating. Every time he refuses I think I must be doing something wrong. First 2 times I tried feeding him he refused and then I found out he had mites. I used reptile relief and pam and then he ate 2 times in a row. I did 2 more treatments with reptile relief and 3 more of Pam. I thought that was the problem but he has no mites now and still no luck. Its especially frustrating now bc of the killerbee I picked up last night, not even 24hrs later she ate....now if she keeps eating on her scheduled days it will be even more frustrating. I know not all bp are the same, some are great eaters some are stubborn but that still isn't enough for me. I just want him to grow up to be a big healthy boy.

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Lol if that isn't good enough for you you shouldn't have got into ball pythons. :D As someone on here has as their signature: "the only thing consistent about ball pythons is their inconsistency".

Like I said, if you have your parameters set and a good amount of hides etc. he will eat in due time. If you want to try something switch to a smaller cage as someone suggested.

Yodawagon - the op is obviously taking great care of her snakes. One picky ball python doesn't mean you can't get another snake. There is no such thing as "perfecting" a ball python's appetite. They just eat when they want to eat.

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Originally Posted by Yodawagon

Don't take offense to this, but why would you get another snake when you're still working on perfecting the one you already have.

You should never use a hide with a hole in it, they can get stuck.

I see a wireless sensor in one of those pictures. I hope that's not taped. You should be checking your parameters where the snake lives, not 7 inches above it.

Also what are you parameters?
Heat source?

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The wireless sensor is only for humidity. I have probes both on the Kane heat mat and on top of the substrate 92 under substrate 89 on top, same for his cool side one on top of the Kane mat and one on top of substrate 88 under substrate and 84 on top . If I thought he was to big for the hole in the hide I wouldnt of bought it, I will change it along with the other hides when he's bigger. I don't think the change in cage affected him, he was in a v211 and he acts the same in the v400. As far as getting another snake, does it mean when sometimes my beardie and my female Leo rejects food that I should get rid of everything else and focus on those 2? Or if a breeder can't get one of there snakes to eat they should quit the buisness and sell everything until they get that one snake to eat?

There is tape that I epoxy around the flashing light. There is no way its coming off. You can come see for yourself. Its being held to the wall by a bracket I made and screwed to the cage.

Hey
In my opinion the hide on the hot and cold side should be exactly the same and should be a nice secure fit. That way instead of feeling secure but being cold all the time or the other way around he will have consistency and you'll know that he just favors the temp and not one hide over the other.
I can't see the pics for some reason so don't know if that's the case or not.

I had my super pastel in a 45x45x30 viv and she was just under 2 ft long. Switched her to a rub and she's soooo muh happier it's quite surprising. She would never settle in the viv but she's happy now and has never missed a meal since and would feed every other day if I let her lol
But I have a phantom that's over 2 and a half ft and she fits quite nicely in the exo terrace medium hides

Total up to you if you want different hides as well. Maybe ruff ones to help with shedding or one humid hide or something but I would definitely have 2 of the same hide like I said just above

Good Luck.

My best results come with when and how I offer the food. Do you always have the light on in there? I'd try keeping the light off for a while, cover part of the front with a towel, and only offer at night while trying to stay out of sight. I'm guessing that Viv is too big for your bp and it doesn't feel secure enough with the size and lights. Good luck!

Switching the hides to be the same I might try. Its very dark in the room he is in even during the day so I have a light on a timer. The light in the pic was just there so people could see inside better, I normally have a very low watt incadesent bulb. The light goes off at 9 and I always feed between 12am-2am after he is out and about.

Hey. You say you feed between 12 and 2. Have you tried feeding in the day ? All of mine feed in the day but that's the way they have always done it.
One won't feed too early in the day because she was previously fed late in the night so she has to be fed around 8 but I'm slowly bringing her down

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Originally Posted by Scottywelsh

Hey. You say you feed between 12 and 2. Have you tried feeding in the day ? All of mine feed in the day but that's the way they have always done it.
One won't feed too early in the day because she was previously fed late in the night so she has to be fed around 8 but I'm slowly bringing her down

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Yes the first few times I tried to feed him was during daylight and he refused. The only meals he has taken were at night. Maybe I should try daylight again?

I would second having the identical hides. Aside from that, I'd leave him alone as much as possible for a week. Then offer him prey once every 6 days. Unless he starts dropping weight, I wouldn't worry about it. He'll eat when he's comfortable and hungry.

I would try it again personally. The first few times yu.tried him in the day be might have still been settling in.
Make whatever changes you're going to make like using the same hides or blacking some of the glass out for privacy. . Give him a week to get comfortable and secure and try him.
How do you offer food ? On tongs or just left in the viv or ?

And if all ells fails maybe have to Come to terms with the fact the viv might be too big for him. If it is and you can't or don't want to change vivs then maybe move the hot or cold side to the middle of the viv. Block the other half of the viv making it half the size and see if he feels more secure like that
With this method you can easily make the viv bigger and bigger just by moving whatever you have used to block the other half up. essentially making the transition from a small viv to big viv much more gradual

If you do this think carefully on what you use. Remember that snakes can fit through surprisingly small gaps sometimes and they push things with quite a force when they want to. Also as you know but I'll say it anyway just for others that read this. Do not use tape to secure anything, IMO you shouldn't use anything with sticky stuff on it in a viv (e.g stick on thermometers). remove all burs or anything sharp that he can catch himself on.

I know that when a ball python refuses food many people relate it to husbandry issues. But that isn't always the case. Are you feeding live, F/t, or pre-killed?

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Originally Posted by New2Dis

I know that when a ball python refuses food many people relate it to husbandry issues. But that isn't always the case. Are you feeding live, F/t, or pre-killed?

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Currently frozen bc that's all he's ever ate for me. I've tried all though. Have tried in a separate container even. I may try smaller prey the next feeding which is Friday. At first I was trying every 5 days and I've moved it to every 7 days. The rat is always heated well. I use my temp gun and make sure the temp is around 100-110

Does he take live mice?

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Originally Posted by New2Dis

Does he take live mice?

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DO NOT feed him live mice! A lot of ball pythons especially picky ones may develop a liking to them and it will be very difficult to get him back on rats if not impossible.

I would only suggest this if you are at the point when you actually NEED to get him eating and there is no other option.

Personally would never use live !
May not be for everyone but I would assist feed f/t or pre killed until they start taking on there own and that would be a last resort when they have lost to much weight

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Originally Posted by Scottywelsh

Personally would never use live !
May not be for everyone but I would assist feed f/t or pre killed until they start taking on there own and that would be a last resort when they have lost to much weight

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You don't assist an animal unless you have tried every other options and live is one of them so are mice. The are a lot of things that can be done before assist feeding which is a huge step backward.

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Originally Posted by Deborah

You don't assist an animal unless you have tried every other options and live is one of them so are mice. The are a lot of things that can be done before assist feeding which is a huge step backward.

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As I said in my reply " That would be a last resort when they have lost to much weight""
I would do every thing ells which includes trying mice but not live feed.
Assist feeding may be a big step back but so is live feeding.

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Originally Posted by Scottywelsh

Assist feeding may be a big step back but so is live feeding.

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Your opinion involving feeding live prey, which they have evolved over thousands of years to do quite efficiently, is just that - your opinion. A ball python that feeds on its own is NEVER a step back when compared to one that will not.

It is my opinion yes. I never said it was a fact or anything more than my opinion. As for "Never a step back". If you feed f/t then have to feed live and work your way to f/t again then yes that would make live feeding a step back.

But if you don't think it is and an assist feed makes the royal feed on its own then that is also not a step back

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Originally Posted by Scottywelsh

It is my opinion yes. I never said it was a fact or anything more than my opinion. As for "Never a step back". If you feed f/t then have to feed live and work your way to f/t again then yes that would make live feeding a step back.

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For those that prefer to feed f/t, then yes, feeding live could be considered a step back. Please re-read what I wrote again, though. I said it was not a step back from assist feeding. I will never agree with anyone who feels otherwise.

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Originally Posted by Scottywelsh

But if you don't think it is and an assist feed makes the royal feed on its own then that is also not a step back

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If all other options have been exhausted, then yes, there is a place for assist feeding. Until then...

I have tried live after he refused the first 2 times. He didn't eat it. I don't want to try live again. I have a friend that bought a ball that was eating f/t and he switched to live and I asked why and he said bc his bp liked them better. I told him its not about what he likes and that he could get seriously hurt. Well his beautiful ivory now has scars and is fasting. My friend now says he wishes he would of never switched him back to live.
I have tried prekilled also. He has only ate f/t for me so that's all I'm going to offer. Since he is eating every 2 weeks it seems I'm not ready to try mice yet. What is assist feeding? I've heard of it but never read up on it. I don't think I'm at that point either though but would like to know if it ever comes down to that. Would trying smaller prey like rat pups or weaned rats be worth trying? I've been feeding small rats.

Bottom line anyone not willing to do what it takes to get their animal to eat (when passed a certain point) whether it mice or live should not own a snake or at least not a BP.

I have fed well over 20000 live preys never had an issue.

It's about being knowledgeable and responsible.

If you are not willing to try it's fine it's YOUR snake, and if it does not want to eat than let it be, it will either resume one day or starve itself.

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I guess I should of added that I don't ever want to feed live again but I will if I need to. That would not be my first choice though. I've tried braining and get a better response but still no strike. Eating once every 2 weeks isn't perfect but at least its something. I will do whatever I need to do to make sure he is happy and healthy, just like all my pets, even feeding live or mice but like I said I don't think he's at that point of needing that yet. He has lost no weight and gained a little but not much. I just weighed him today and he's 15 grams heavier than when I first got him. Is that a lot? No but its better then -15 grams.

Feeding live is NOT ALWAYS a step back. My bp would feed f/t one week then refuse 3 weeks f/t then eat again. So I fed him live for a month. It was in my case a step foreword because it got my bp's aggression for food higher. From there I pre killed mice for about a 2 months then finally got him to switch to f/t. It's not fun to feed live, and it's not fun to kill a mouse or rat with a knife and crack it's neck. But you gotta do what ya gotta do.

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Originally Posted by Deborah

Bottom line anyone not willing to do what it takes to get their animal to eat (when passed a certain point) whether it mice or live should not own a snake or at least not a bp

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I think live is more dangerous than assist so that's me doing exactly what you just said. What it takes !! .

As for your 20000 live feeds. As always it works for some not for others. Iv known bps injured and killed and known people to never have a problem.

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Originally Posted by Deborah

If you are not willing to try it's fine it's YOUR snake, and if it does not want to eat than let it be, it will either resume one day or starve itself.

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And please don't suggest I don't care for my snakes and would let them starve !!! . That is not at all what I have said and have not given that impression at all ! Quite the opposite infact !


But anyway . . .
Maybe your snake just prefers to eat every other week.
Maybe try him every 10 or 12 days instead of every week
Try and find his sweet spot where he will take every meal.

Sorry to kind of hijack your post there for a bit with opinions being thrown left right and center but I suppose that is a good thing to get everyone's different opinion and see what works for you and your bp

Good Luck.8

He just ate! I took the advice of putting cardboard on one side of the front glass and trying during daylight hours. I shut off his light so it wasn't as bright and pointed my electric heater toward the open side of his cage while I heated the rats head. He didn't come out but as soon as I put the head of the rat inside his hide he struck it. I'll try next feeding the same way. I still think its weird he refused anytime I tried black rats. Every time he has ate has been white rats. Including today. I'll just keep trying white rats and if he keeps eating them then great. He has never refused a white rat.

Congrats! I still remember the feeling getting my ball python to eat the first time. Hopefully it's not a weekly struggle to get him to eat. Good luck:)

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Originally Posted by New2Dis

Congrats! I still remember the feeling getting my ball python to eat the first time. Hopefully it's not a weekly struggle to get him to eat. Good luck:)

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Well its not his first time but every feeding is a guessing game of if he's going to take it so I always get excited when he does. I always think he's going to refuse but when he strikes its totally unexpected.

My killer bee also had no problems eating her large mouse. The pet store I bought her from was feeding her small which was 2 sizes to small for her so I bought large and this is her second feeding with me and she took it no problem. It took her a little longer to get it down but that's expected from such a change in prey size. Afterwards she was slithering around with the tip of the mouse tail hanging out of the corner of her mouth, it was almost like she didn't even know it wasn't all the way down yet.

I also took the advice of having the same hot/cold hides and ordered 2 small reptile basics hides for me killerbee and 2 medium for my super pastel. Hopefully they are the right size. For the price you can't beat them.