Any Ideas?

Hello! :snake:

Today I traded a Leo I had for a Super Pastel female. My bf picked her up so I didnt get to inspect her until he got home and when he got here, we noticed she has a hole in what im assuming is her "belly button" area. Its a small hole when shes relaxed, but it opens a very concerning amount when shes moving. Ive searched everywhere online and cannot find anything about this. To me, it looks like an umbilicus that never closed. I'm worried about hernias or prolapses or whatever could possibly go wrong with a hole in her belly.

Also, she seems to have something going on with her mouth. I assumed mouth rot or scale rot, but nothing I see for either of those look exactly like she has. She yawned and everything looked the normal pale pink. No nasty pus, no bubbles, no discoloration. I don't hear or see her do the things mentioned when they get RIs. I've been stumped So I located and found the lady she was bred by and she was absolutely no help at all. I assumed she would be concerned about a snake she produced, but she answered me with short sentences and then completely ignored me after I showed her pictures and said something was wrong with her mouth as well. She said she never seen it before, which is impossible if this is an open umbilicus or something of the sort. Showed me instantly what kind of breeder she was. And I didn't bother to continue contacting her.

We will be calling the vet tomorrow and going to get her seen asap, but I just wanted to see if anyone had any idea on what these two things are while I sit here tonight and worry about it. She is very healthy besides those two things.

On a side note, the guy that had her before me told me her last shed, a month ago, was really bad because he had "humidity issues". So I don't know if the mouth could be a result of a bad shed or excessive rubbing? Also, when my bf picked her up, he said the guy literally had dual dome lamps hanging INSIDE the enclosure. Below the lid. I cant even imagine how, but I was also thinking of a possible burn from that? I'm dying to have her seen to see if anything can be done about it all :(.

This is her and some pictures of it.
http://m.imgur.com/xog6xmY
http://m.imgur.com/K7vwUlc
http://m.imgur.com/fr6KOVx
http://m.imgur.com/KEXXSIu
http://m.imgur.com/G31C5RG
http://m.imgur.com/WxjeEiK
http://m.imgur.com/qFTVdda

Wow I've never seen a wounds like that Sorry I'm no help I think the Vet is a darn good Idea, its to bad that these things were not told to you that bothers me when people do that. Looking forward to what ya find out.

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Thanks, I agree. I asked the guy about it and sent him pictures and he apparently never seen it before. How, seriously? The guy said she is nippy as well and we took her out quite a few times today to get pics of what she has and check her out for anything more and not once did she hiss or strike. Shes shy and jumpy, but I don't consider her nippy. Quite honestly I don't think hes ever even picked her up before, you just can't miss things like this. Same goes for the breeder.

I'll definitely post what the vet has to say about it all. *sigh* I hope it's all treatable.

It most likely can be treated with success try not to worry your doing all you can do , Im really wanting to hear about that belly wound and it sounds like by fixing the habitat with the proper temperature and Humidity the next shed should be a good one.

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The mouth definitely looks like an infection of some sort. As for the belly, I'd say your assumption is correct. However at her size (luckily it doesn't look to have given her trouble) it's not going to close on it's own. It's healed over and has nothing to adhere to. It needs to be scraped and stitched by a vet in order to close.

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Looks treatable With a vet visit. Lesson learned, always give the animal a good look over before you agree on a trade/purchase.


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I would have taken her anyway @Rob. I wouldn't have left her like that. Though definitely lesson learned on the animal I traded her for as I hope he takes care of her the way she needs to be.

I weighed her and she is 207g and was told she is a 2015 hatchling. Not sure when, didn't bother asking the breeder.

But thanks everyone for the comments!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Katan

I would have taken her anyway @Rob. I wouldn't have left her like that. Though definitely lesson learned on the animal I traded her for as I hope he takes care of her the way she needs to

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Oh I get wanting to nurse it back to health, but trading your healthy animal for a sick one? Well I hope the little guy gets better, let us know. Best of luck [emoji1303]

I'm pretty sure I just stated lesson learned on that? Maybe it wasn't clear. Meaning I wouldn't have traded the Leo if I was there and saw that. But I would have still payed for/found a way to take the snake as well. Thanks, I'll definitely update when I have one!

Id demand a trade back. He had to know about that stuff.

Katan did you get to see the Vet ?

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We just made an appointment, it's for Friday at 9:10 am. Our usual vet doesn't do reptiles so we had to look for a close one who does. They have good reviews, dying to see what they say.

The first issue may just be a layer of stuck shed that has gotten stained?

The second issue looks like a belly button that never fully closed though - which would be very unusual on a snake of that size. Hopefully some anti bios and a few stitches could persuade it to close?

I'm really curious what the vet has to say though once he has inspected it. :weirdface

You and me both. It is going to feel like forever waiting til friday morning :rolleye2:.

I haven't been able to find anything online about any snakes whose belly button didn't close all the way. It's been so frustrating. Literally everything that comes up when I search that is snake belly button rings -_-
And I sure hope it is stuck shed, that'd be a lot better than rot or an infection.

As soon as I find out I'll be on to post. I pray they can get it closed.:please:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Katan

I haven't been able to find anything online about any snakes whose belly button didn't close all the way. It's been so frustrating. Literally everything that comes up when I search that is snake belly button rings -_-

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I tried a search for "snake umbilical hole not closed" and this thread popped up: http://www.fieldherpforum.com/forum/...hp?f=2&t=20452

One of the users mentions "What you are seeing is where the umbilicus and residual yolk sac are internalized into the body cavity. It's basically the snake's belly button. In most cases, the yolk will be internalized through a hole there, and it will seal up and for the first few years of the snake's life, a scar will be noticeable. Unfortunately, if a snake is born a bit too early that hole may not have sealed."

Hopefully the vet can stitch it closed? It might be okay the way it is though?
I wanted to wish you luck!

It's shameful the person you traded with claims to have not seen this! On the lighter side you won bc you have a beautiful super pastel there with tons of potential. The exotic vet will get the reptile back on track and you can always document your experience on the BOI ( board of inquiry) on Fauna Classifieds.

I wonder if the breeder cut the egg too early. No idea if they do that, not even going to ask. I found her myself by comparing the for sale picture on a facebook group to more pictures that were up and found her quite easily and WOW does she have tons of snakes up constantly.
I didn't even see that yesterday, though I was looking for pictures and probably went past it. I'm hoping they can stitch it because I'm worried about something like this happening...
http://www.baileyreptiles.com/grace.html
I'll definitely bring it up and see if they think it is necessary or not.

Thanks so much @AbsoluteApril!

Edited to thank Albert Clark as well :). I honestly don't know how they couldn't have seen that. What amused me was HE messaged me asking to do a trade and sent me her breeder pic. The breeder sold her for $100. After I got her, I found his post looking to sell or trade, and he was trying to sell her and a male Super Pastel het pied for $125 each. How was he trying to sell them more than the breeder he got them from O_o. People amaze me! But besides all that, she is very beautiful and I'm not giving her up. I plan on asking him for a pic of the Leos enclosure in a few days to see how shes doing and if everything looks ok. He had quite a few other reptiles, but said he works long hours. So maybe it was innocent and he didnt have time for them and didnt notice it, or maybe he was trying to get rid of them for that reason and played stupid. I'll never know, but I love her and shes not going back. I don't know anything about Fauna Classifieds, but I'll definitely check that out!

Friday is coming right up Hold onto good thoughts.

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Don't worry too much about the Baileys reptile posting. That animal was born with her organs outside. Yours appears to not only be a small hole, but she has lived with it for some time. She could not have done so with organs outside of her body. There shouldn't be any reason it can't be stitched either. The vet will have to remove some skin and scales (it will never close by simply stitching the skin together) so that it can bind together. So long as there isn't some off circumstance that prevents your vet from doing this procedure then it's likely that in a few weeks you won't be able to tell that it wasn't closed in the first place.

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Update!

http://i.imgur.com/nCRRoac.jpg

Well, not much to update on. The mouth issue is mouth rot, they found a small amount of pus on the inside that I didn't notice with the quick yawn she did. So that is what is going on with that. As for the belly button...

They referred us to an exotic specialist vet in NJ almost two hours away because it is a really rare case and they don't feel comfortable with the procedure to close it up. They said she can eat, but it definitely should be looked at by this other vet. So we called and just the visit to check it out will be $150, then they'll give a quote for the actual procedure, ugh. The appt is for April 10th. This should be a fun bill.

I was hoping they could get it all done today, BUT I'm glad were getting somewhere and treating the mouth issue.

:snake:

I'm so Sorry Kagan wow at least the Vet. was honest with you about it being above his skill level on Snakes. So the Journey with your new Baby has started I have faith this will work out in the end, your getting the Baby the medical attention that is needed and you have got the Habitat fixed right and you strike me as a person with a good heart and perseverance So you go Girl and you must post update pictures.:)

Aww thanks you're so nice <3 :)
Right now we have to take her out twice a day to give her her meds and cream so I don't want to stress her out more than she already is, but as soon as I see some improvement and as soon as I find out about the belly button I'll definitely post updates and better pictures :) I love her <3 I'm so happy we can give her the care she needs now.

So we went to NJ and the vet is awesome, it's huge and beautiful and has soo many doctors and everyone was so friendly. It had a macaw, african grey, guinea pigs, dogs, cats, everything in the waiting room. I loved it. But anyway.

He examined her and said that it is an umbilical hernia and its not the first time hes seen it. He said it's not critical and that we need to focus on the oral infection first as that is the most important thing to fix here. We go back in three weeks and if the infection is still there after the oral meds, he will give her the injection which has a much higher success rate than the oral meds. She is also having a really hard time shedding as well. Her temps are perfect, he said it could be the infection causing her to have a bad shed. Once this is cleared he said we can talk about when to do the incision to bind together the belly. He said its really simple and I like the fact that hes comfortable with that. He said it could be $200+, which in my opinion is not bad because I was expecting a lot more than that.

She did manage to get the shed off of her head and that brown patch of whatever is no longer there anymore. It almost seemed like a scab because it had a few drops of blood once it came off, but that was it. Underneath looks completely normal. The shed on her back started to crack off, she is so wrinkly and she has no interest in rubbing the shed off. The poor girl just doesn't feel good <3

I don't have any updated pics of her, but I'll put two pics of our normal boy Nos :). He escaped the end of February because my bf forgot to put the clips on his cage and he hasn't eaten since then. I added more hides and redid his cage and he has shown no signs of stress like he was for a while and he thankfully ate again on Thursday night right after a perfect shed. He was very interested thank god, I was so worried about him.

http://i.imgur.com/MjV0Rts.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/XgJSnsq.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/5FBrqHV.jpg

Completely forgot to update, after doing the oral meds (baytril and metacam) two extra weeks we took her into the NJ vet two Sundays ago and he said everything was the same and I knew it was because nothing looked different. So he gave us the injections and it's wonderful. Swelling has gone down, no red corner on mouth, and she is going through a rough shed again. I'm hoping once the stress and meds are done she will have a normal shed because her humidity is great and shouldn't be causing the crispy stuck shed. She has about 11 more shots to go and then we will be scheduling another recheck to make sure everything is clear.

Last recheck was great, he only charged us for the meds which came out to about $19.05 or around there, we were so relieved.

If everything is good I want to discuss closing the umbilical more. I'm so happy were getting somewhere now with her health <3.