A little advice?

Hi guys, I'm new here buuut I could really use the guidance of some BP lovers with a lot more experience than me.

My history with big snakes begins and ends back when I volunteered at a reptile reserve. I worked for about a month with a six foot reticulated python last year and she was an absolute doll. Very gently (except when it got close to feeding day) and super easy to handle. SO, when I went to the pet shop the other day all I had in mind was to ask some questions and get a feel for snake husbandry. I was under educated about all that. Well, after talking with their reptile expert he assured me that I had very good basic knowledge of their care and so forth and that if I were gonna start out with big snakes I should get a BP because of their gentle nature. He handed me one of their little ones, she's probably just over a foot long, and she was great. Very relaxed and sociable, if you can call a snake sociable. He was even nice enough to inform me that on my tight budget, I could get away with buying cage accessories and substrate from petsmart, since it'd be cheaper. Well, anyway, I feel like I'm rambling so I'll try to go ahead and jump into stuff about my snake.

I've had her for a day now and this is what all is going on: She was perfect on the ride home, she did NOT want to be in the bucket they gave me, she kept popping the lid off and hanging on to my hand. Not squeezing or anything, she'd just crawl onto my hand and sit, very relaxed and even yawning a bit (Is yawning good? I didn't know they did that!). So once we got home it was time to introduce her to her new home. In her tank the warm side stays about 80 degrees fahrenheit and the cool end is right at 73 with a heating rock in the corner. She has fresh water, a log to hide under, aspen bedding, and the whole tank is about 20 gallons. As expected when I put her in, she explored a bit, got something to drink, climbed on top of her thermometer, and then hid. She would come out about every thirty minutes or so, check it out again, then go hide. I feel like this is normal? After all the guy at my reptile shop said he'd just gotten her from the breeder about two hours before I arrived, so she moved a ton in one day.

But here's where things go awry.

Today. My boyfriend decided that he wanted to try and hold her again, since she did so well on the ride home he thought she wouldn't mind it. Well she minded it. A lot. Before I knew it he had brought me a snake that was tightly curled up in the palm of his hand but, not in the protective ball way. She had her head and neck positioned in a very tight S shape, raised up from the rest of her body which was extremely tense. I told him he needed to put her back, she wasn't ready to be held but when he realized that looked to be a striking position he sat her on my bed and backed away. It took a solid hour to get her to relax enough to where I could walk her back to her tank. She explored her tank for about two minutes once I put her back in it (by this time her breathing had relaxed and she was exploring my arm and so forth) then went into her log and hasn't come back out. Also during all this she would "stand" really tall while she moved around. Kind of like a cobra but she wasn't all coiled up.

My major questions are really: She's a little more than a foot, but chubby, so is she very young or are they super slow growers (I forgot to ask her age ^^')? Is the fact that she had her neck raised up off her body in an S shape a bigger warning than if she were just laying down like that? Is the cobra thing she was doing a defensive posture? When should I feed her, the guy said she was scheduled for Wednesday feedings but I feel like she'd be too tense to eat now? Is it normal for them to be so active and friendly at the store then be a bit skeptical at home? Am I already a horrible snake mama on day one, because I'm really nervous and I just want my lil Winry to have the best snakey life possible

ETA: First of all, take out the heating rock asap! Those are dangerous to snakes. It can seriously burn or kill them.

Don't get advice from petsmart/petco employees- 99% of cases, they give bad advice... such as the heating rock.

Read up thoroughly on this link to get info on what temperatures and setups are appropriate for ball pythons. http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...thon-CARESHEET

Yawning is normal. :oops: Poking around to check once in awhile and returning to the hide is also normal. But 90% of the time, they will be in their hide. If they are coming out TOO frequently, it usually means that either the temperatures are off, or they are hungry.

You can't tell a ball python's age from size, unfortunately. Some who are malnourished or underfed or on "maintenance feeding" will be much smaller at an older age. Some who are fed a lot and frequently will grow fast. Their size generally depends on their feeding schedule since a young age, but also genetics. If you see that she's chubby, and her spine is not a visible triangle shape on her back, then it sounds like she's fine.

By cobra thing, do you mean lifting their necks straight up? That's called periscoping, just them checking the environment, not defensive at all.

A ball python being particularly active/moving fast is actually nervousness, not friendliness. If they are content, then they sit still like a mushy blob (LOL) or move quite slowly.

An "S" shape neck with a pulled back head, and holding her head very still, is defensive- but it's not always going to be the "S" shape when they are defensive. Sometimes they will simply pull their heads back a bit and hold very still + stare at your hand/object of their fear.

If you weigh her on a scale in grams, we can tell you how frequently and how large size prey you can feed her!

Any new animal should be left alone for a week, which means NO handling. Once a week has passed offer food in the enclosure. If the snake refuse it's first feeding, husbandry will need to be assessed.

NO HANDLING until your snake successfully eats for you.

As for the defensive behavior this is a snake that has moved from it's breeder to a pet shop and from the pet shop to your place, it is stressed and need to adjust to it's new surrounding.

In the future always keep in mind that S it for Striking, so if your snake is in a S position this means you need to leave it alone, and try handling at another time.

@Redshepherd Thank you so much! That really helps me relax and understand better handling. I had no idea about the yawning or periscoping! I really hope she keeps it up though because the yawning is precious, and when the periscoping isn't completely stress induced then that'll be adorable too<3 I wish I had a scale to weigh her on, I should really look into one but the man said she was easily being fed fuzzies on a weekly basis so I'm hoping she doesn't give me any struggles.

@Debohra Oh wow, thank you! I was really worried I might hurt her if I didn't follow the every wednesday feedings that they'd been giving her but, a week is the kind of structured "this many days" answer I really needed. Everyone else keeps telling me I'll just know based off her personality but I just don't have the experience for that kind of intuition I don't think. And I don't plan on handling her any more at all until she's well digested her first meal, and people who have access to her enclosure now know that too.

Another question. Does she need really special humidity? I keep getting 50/50 answers of no and yes. Her humidity is currently VERY low at just 24% and that worries me a lot but at the same time we didn't even watch the humidity on the reticulated python's enclosure when I worked at the reserve so I feel completely in the dark despite research. Even my python care pamphlet told me something obscure.

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Originally Posted by TheSquigglyExplorer

Another question. Does she need really special humidity? I keep getting 50/50 answers of no and yes. Her humidity is currently VERY low at just 24% and that worries me a lot but at the same time we didn't even watch the humidity on the reticulated python's enclosure when I worked at the reserve so I feel completely in the dark despite research. Even my python care pamphlet told me something obscure.

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Yes she does low humidity can be has bad as high humidity to you should strive for 50% and 60% to 70% during shed.

Make sure you are measuring the humidity with a digital hygrometer as dial ones are not accurate.

@Deborah You are a god send, thank you so much. I went ahead and moved her water dish to the warm side of her tank to try and up the humidity. Any other ways of doing so, and do you have any recommendations for a digital thermometer? I saw a super cheap one at petco but it's accuracy seemed sketchy to me, probably no more so than my little dial one but still.

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Originally Posted by TheSquigglyExplorer

Any other ways of doing so, and do you have any recommendations for a digital thermometer? I saw a super cheap one at petco but it's accuracy seemed sketchy to me, probably no more so than my little dial one but still.

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I personally prefer temp guns but than again I have a fairly bigger about of animals and this allows me to get reading randomly in various enclosure and in my incubator as well.

For a single enclosure this http://www.amazon.com/AcuRite-00891A...te+thermometer which can also be found at Walmart will do the job allowing you to measure the hot spot with the probe the cool side with the display itself and humidity as well.

Fantastic! And it's a reasonable price. I'll definitely be checking the local walmart for that tonight, if I can't find it I'll go ahead and order one. I read online that misting the tank with water is also a good way to keep up humidity, would anyone really suggest this or will a large water dish provide enough moisture for 20 gallons?

If you can show a picture of your set up would help a bit. I started out with a glass tank, which need modifications. It's hard to hold humidity in with out covering the top of the tank. I taped plastics over the the top except around the light.
I still had to mist daily to keep humidity up. Your gonna want to heat the bottom of the tank with under tank heater regulated by a thermostat.
I also had to switch substrate to repti bark, keeps humidity very well.

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Heating! My next series of questions~ I have a 60 watt over tank red bulb that's doing all the heating right now, the tank is about 80-82º on the warm end. Is that too cold? Because I wanna get her an undertank heating pad too, but I'm scared it'll make it too hot. She has a warm rock too that she really likes to stretch onto whenever she comes out from her log?

It's got a mesh top so for now I've got moist paper towels on one half of it to try and retain moisture but I'll probably tape it up like you said so that it holds better. For now I just misted the tank and it's a happy snake 50% I'll keep my eye on it to see how fast it evaporates but I sprayed mostly the aspen and back side of the tank to see how it holds up.

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the tank is about 80-82º on the warm end. Is that too cold? Because I wanna get her an undertank heating pad too, but I'm scared it'll make it too hot.

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It is too cold you want to aim for 88/90 range in an enclosure that size, once you will have UTH the bulb will likely be obsolete, you won't know until you adjust your setpup, and remember a UTH must be used in combination with a reliable thermostat.

Oh man, this makes me question that reptile store's reputability since they said room temperature would be fine and my house is 75º (Also sold me a snake when I'm clearly underprepared)! Thank you guys so much but, what kind of UTH should I get? All the ones I've seen have been for glass tanks only and just raise the temp by 5/10º

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Originally Posted by TheSquigglyExplorer

Oh man, this makes me question that reptile store's reputability since they said room temperature would be fine and my house is 75º (Also sold me a snake when I'm clearly underprepared)! Thank you guys so much but, what kind of UTH should I get? All the ones I've seen have been for glass tanks only and just raise the temp by 5/10º

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Keeping Pythons at room temps can be done however I only recommend it for experienced keeper and even in that case the ambient temp of the room where the snake is kept should be in the mid 80's/

As far s UTH for stand alone enclosure I am partial to Ultratherm they are sturdy, and do not stick to the enclosure like other brands do (making it hard to tranfer them to another enclosure if you had to.)

http://www.reptilebasics.com/ultrath...ater-uth-6-x11

Oh awesome! That seems perfect for my girl! So with the heating pad she might not need the bulb, even for basking?

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Originally Posted by TheSquigglyExplorer

Oh awesome! That seems perfect for my girl! So with the heating pad she might not need the bulb, even for basking?

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Probably not, and again make sure to purchase a thermostat.

I don't know if you have already, but that heated rock needs to go. They can be dangerous.

As you've probably already found out, taking advice from pet store employees is not good. Sounds like you're taking steps to make things right for your new little one :) Good luck.

I will definitely be getting those things asap

@hazzaram I usually never trust pet stores at all but, I figured a specific reptile store who buys from breeders could be better. Guess I'm learning as I go, haha. Can the rock get too hot or something? I had no idea they could be dangerous!

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Originally Posted by TheSquigglyExplorer

I will definitely be getting those things asap

@hazzaram I usually never trust pet stores at all but, I figured a specific reptile store who buys from breeders could be better. Guess I'm learning as I go, haha. Can the rock get too hot or something? I had no idea they could be dangerous!

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Yes. It can burn your snake pretty badly. That's what a UTH and thermostat is for. It provides the belly heat that they need to digest and it's set at a proper temperature that can't hurt them :)

Oh wow, I never knew, it didn't feel hot enough to burn her but I'll definitely be taking that out.

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Originally Posted by TheSquigglyExplorer

Oh wow, I never knew, it didn't feel hot enough to burn her but I'll definitely be taking that out.

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Probably a good idea. Just do a Google search for 'heat rock snake burn' and you'll get a lot of results and pictures. Pretty gruesome :(

Oh goodness, that's so sad. Yup, heat rocks gonna go.

Welcome to the forum! Sounds like you are getting a ton of great advice. I also have a tank for my ball python, it is a 40 gallon tank with a screen lid (I also did not have very good advice when I started looking at getting a snake). I never got an under the tank heater, but many people highly recommend them. I have a ceramic heat bulb on a thermostat on the hot side which keeps it at 88-90*F and a "nighttime blue" bulb on a thermostat that keeps the other side at 82. I also had a hard time with getting the humidity right - so I use cypress mulch and cover the top of the tank with foil, leaving a hole for the lights. I did need to add damp towels under the foil on the really cold dry days over the winter, but now that spring is here, I haven't had any trouble keeping humidity between 55 and 60.

If you find you can't keep the humidity up, you might need to try different substrate. Keeping aspen too moist can cause it to mold, that's why I use the cypress. Other than heat, the second most important part of the snake's enclosure is the correctly sized hides. I have 5 currently in my tank since it is so big. You want a hide that is dark, fully closed except for a hole for a door, and the snake should be able to touch all the sides when she is curled in it. They do like tight spaces :)

I have a picture of my set up under my profile and there is a posted thread on how to set up a 20 gal aquarium on the husbandry tab if you need / want a visual aid. (I was overly cautious about temperature and humidity when I got mine and have way more temp probes that are necessary)

Can't wait to see pics of your new snoot when she's all settled in

Thank you so much, Crowfingers. I have been stressing SO hard about my little girl's health since I got her. She's very very timid and doesn't like coming out much at all. Even at night right now. I managed with two ceramic bulbs (one hot day bulb, and one blue night bulb on opposite ends of the tank) to get the heat up to about 85 on the warm side and 80 on the cool side. It isn't perfect but it's staying in the 80s at night once I take the hot bulb away, so she's hopefully not frigid. I also got a pretty hefty rebate check in the mail so I'm gonna crack on with the UTH and one of those temp controlling things, as well as finally picking up that good thermometer. Then, hopefully she'll have a good, warm living situation... I didn't know about cyprus bedding, everyone just kept forcing aspen down my throat so I was terrified to get anything else, haha. I'll probably switch that over as well since it can't be too expensive... I just feel so bad for her, having to be stressed out until it's all perfect. On the positive side, I gave her a paper towel roll that I blocked one end up with some semi damp paper towels (didn't want it being overly humid in the roll). It's just big enough for her to form a ball and have it touching her on all sides, and the roll seems to be retaining heat and moisture very well. Whenever I can get a glimpse of her in there (sometimes she moves out of it a bit to get something to drink) she looks much happier, moves slow, and has relaxed and steady breathing. I wondered why she liked it better than her log, it must just be because it's smaller and warm lol.

And just, thank all of you so much for all this amazing advice. I always get really nervous asking stuff like this because I know I'm making some pretty hefty "noob" mistakes. But you guys are helping me give her a better life so much ^^

I was sure how to edit my post, so sorry for double posting but I wanted to update: The tank is now at about 91-ish on the hot end and 84-ish on the cool end. It would seem the double bulb thing is working great for a temp fix. But I'm still having a pretty hard time getting the humidity right... I think I'm gonna go ahead and do the tinfoil thing around the two lights for now to try and lock it in.

Updating again because good things are happening: Her tank is completely stabilized now, heat and humidity all good. She still doesn't like coming out of her paper towel roll too much but she did eat! The last time she came out she was nowhere near as chubby as I remember so I'm guessing the stress of the move caused her to shed some weight, offered her a fuzzy and she dug right in!

It's staying at about 91 and 84... Is that now a little too warm for her? Or is she still just not ready to come out yet? I've so far covered all the walls of her tank with paper (gotta wait until I find a suitable background) and gotten a digital thermometer so I can make sure everything in the tank is spot on.

Have you picked up a digital thermometer with probe or temp gun yet? If your using an analog on the wall and its giving you the 91&84 temps the ground will be much warmer. I made this mistake with my first reptiles (leopard geckos) I hung my probe on the wall and it read 88 so I thought I was fine but then I read online what the proper placement of probe was then I found out I was over 100 on the ground. Make sure you put the thermometer probe on the floor of your enclosure.

If you haven't bought a thermostat yet you can get a lamp dimmer from Lowes or other hardware store but unlike a thermostat it will fluctuate with room temp so you will have to keep and eye on it. Its better then not having anything at all. I recommend when you do buy a thermostat that you get a proportional so it will maintain constant temps. They sell cheap on/off styles that you want to stay away from in my opinion. I had one of the zoo med ones and it would turn on at 85 and shut off at 95, way to much of a temp fluctuation for me. So remember proportional. You will place the thermostat probe on the floor just like the thermometer probe.

Good luck! Your not the only one who has suffered from what I call pet store syndrome. Most people probably have at one point or another.

I followed a guide i found on youtube for making a makeshift humidifier with a jug and a fish tank air pump. It took me about a week to get it just right, but now my humidity is 55-65 in a 50 gallon glass tank and it doesnt need me to spray or anything.

Well currently I've got a zilla digital thermometer with a heat and humidity probe but both of them are at the very top of her tank because she kept getting stuck in the wires if I put them anywhere else. I've gotta order the acurite one here soon though because the zilla one seems to be kind of cheap and I can't bury the probe like I'd like. I think I'm just gonna have to find a way to bury the heat sensor for now though, because I was not aware that the ground could be that much hotter without a UTH. If the ground in her tank is terribly warm I'll definitely run to the hardware store and grab a dimmer to try and regulate things better.

Once my tax check clears I fully plan on doing away with the hot bulb and just keeping the cool light on for air warming, then getting a UTH and a temperature controlling thing to really make it stable in there.

@HanabiraAsashi, do you have a link to that video? I would love to set up something a little more automated for her. Right now I'm having to sprits her tank pretty frequently and it's hard to make sure I don't over-humidify by doing that.

I would get a temp gun from Lowes or home depot so then you can still check ground temp and never have to worry about being tangled in cord. Yes the heat the bulb puts out will be absorbed and much hotter on anything its shining on. Its like the sun shining on pavement, the pavement is much hotter then the air. Temp gun will be your best choice unless you or someone has a glass drill bit and you can drill a hole on the side at the bottom edge just big enough to fit the probe in so your ball can't get tangled. I run acurite thermometers and use 4 temp guns in all my herp cages that way I have multiple devices to compare because the only way you know if something is working properly is to compare to other devices. I'm not saying buy 4 temp guns. Maybe just the thermometer and temp gun or just 2 temp guns as soon as you can and if the 2 read about the same temp your good but if they are way off you will need to get another device to see which one is working properly. Acurite are very nice thermometers, I've only have ever had one that was defective but I would of never known that without my temp guns. If I wouldn't of had anything to compare it to my one leopard gecko would of had way to high of temp. It was reading 88 but the actual temp was 103. Like I said acurite is a great product but make sure it is working properly.

Also since your using heat bulbs right now the top of the substrate may be hotter then underneath since the heat is hitting from the top down. When you get an UTH under the substrate will be hotter then the top since it heats from the bottom.

May be a good idea to set the probe on top of the substrate for 10-20 minutes just to see what the temp is. Then do the same for under. That way you know what the ground temp is but don't have to leave it there unattended for your bp to get tangled in.

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Originally Posted by TheSquigglyExplorer

@HanabiraAsashi, do you have a link to that video? I would love to set up something a little more automated for her. Right now I'm having to sprits her tank pretty frequently and it's hard to make sure I don't over-humidify by doing that.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmYU-eKTfDM

Just make sure you get something you can make air-tight. Im using one of those 1 gallon mainstays jugs from walmart and i seem to need tape around the lid to seal it. also, hot glue works fine and dries in 2 minutes vs 24 hours for silicone.

Thank you so much! She's doing better and better by the day thanks to all of you. She's literally the most relaxed and 'friendly' snake I've ever met. Picking her up today she just sat in my hand like a little mush ball and watched me play on my laptop