Thoughts on pairing

Hi all,

I've got a big het albino female that I have been pairing with my double het albino pied the last few months. There appears to have been a noticeable lack of progress. My male also completely stopped feeding and has lost what I consider too much weight to continue to pair him. I have been trying to decide what to do. Options are: A. pair with pewter male. A nice pewter or cinnamon poss het pied female would make a great hold back. B. Pair with a pastel het pied. Keep pastel possible double hets. C. No more pairings and hope he locked at some point / try again next year. Unfortunately this male is the only male I have that has albino.
I keep leaning from one to the next. All the pairings are somewhat on track with future plans. The pewter is intended to be paired with my albino female for 100% hets in the future and I'm working toward pastel albino pieds. The plan was not really for possible hets, although I don't nessesairly mind tinkering with them. Talk to me folks and give me some direction.

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Depends on what your plans are. I would pair any more if you are trying to produce something visual.
Not worth producing a bunch of possible hets to grow and prove out.

Thanks pit, that is along with my thoughts. My main goal is a visual animal right now.

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Yeah I keep all my recessives like married couples so I know what the genetics are.

I can forsee the issues if she happened to pair with the het male and one of the other males. I'd rather not gave a who's your daddy clutch of possible hets.

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Hi, I would think that the dh albino pied has been successful if they have been paired for the past 3 months? Males do go off feed and may lose weight when they are breeding. I would just give him a extended break and offer food every week. Maybe offer a smaller prey item? Make sure he stays hydrated even if he isn't eating. I wouldn't switch up the males unless it was another dh albino pied.

Thanks Albert. I can't say for sure that it wasn't. I never saw a lock and the male appeared generally uninterested. The female has further given no signs of impending eggs, but you never know, she could be playing tricks on me.

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Well, because you never saw it doesn't really mean it didn't happen! Right? I would hydrate the male really well then give him like 2 weeks off. Try and feed him once a week for the 2 weeks if he still refuses put him back with the female. Really as long as he is well hydrated he should be fine. :gj: Just shorten his time with the female.

Personally I would definitely not pair another male, while you will be dealing with PH either way at least with your DH male you have a shot at a visual, and if you change male your next chance of that might be another 2 years after (not all female lay eggs every year), so if that is your main project stay focus.

How big is your male and how much weight has he lost? When did you weigh him the first time after a meal?

Have you found them curled up together even if not locked, or were they each on one side of the enclosure when paired?

How about the female what behavior has she been exhibiting, feeding frenzy, cooling herself on the cold side, soaking or warping herself around the bowl?

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Originally Posted by Asherah

I can forsee the issues if she happened to pair with the het male and one of the other males. I'd rather not gave a who's your daddy clutch of possible hets.

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I'm assuming you don't have any other albino or het albino males, right? It's hard to say what you should do because it really depends on what you really want and what you're aiming for down the road (along with what snakes you have to do it with). From your post saying you want the visual and assuming you have no other males with any albino in them, I'd say leave the female be and just hope there was a lock and the eggs are fertile. Like Deborah said, not all females go every year. You could pair her with your ivory and then you could tell who sired each hatchling, but who knows if one of those yellowbellys would have been fertilized with the other sires sperm and given you an albino ph pied. And you'd be really sad if she laid all yellowbellys and then didn't get up to weight next year.

It's probably best (although hardest) to just throw in the towel and wait until next season.

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Originally Posted by Albert Clark

Well, because you never saw it doesn't really mean it didn't happen! Right? I would hydrate the male really well then give him like 2 weeks off. Try and feed him once a week for the 2 weeks if he still refuses put him back with the female. Really as long as he is well hydrated he should be fine. :gj: Just shorten his time with the female.

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He's been off food since November and has lost significant weight despite lengthened time off. But you are right, just because I didn't see it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Deborah

Personally I would definitely not pair another male, while you will be dealing with PH either way at least with your DH male you have a shot at a visual, and if you change male your next chance of that might be another 2 years after (not all female lay eggs every year), so if that is your main project stay focus.

How big is your male and how much weight has he lost? When did you weigh him the first time after a meal?

Have you found them curled up together even if not locked, or were they each on one side of the enclosure when paired?

How about the female what behavior has she been exhibiting, feeding frenzy, cooling herself on the cold side, soaking or warping herself around the bowl?

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He was 822g empty when I began pairing and he is 710g empty today with a steady rate of weight loss.

As they were coiled together once, the rest of the time he was on the opposite side of the tub. However the female was very interested on each introduction and I noted "messes" were made during several pairings.

The female has exhibited no signs at this point. Eating normally. No bowl wrapping or seeking the cool side. She did go off feed for 3 weeks, but I believe that to have been the result of our move (as it came immediately after) rather than an indication of being gravid. She is eating consistently again.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Asherah

He's been off food since November and has lost significant weight despite lengthened time off. But you are right, just because I didn't see it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

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Deborah and bks both have good points too!

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Originally Posted by bks2100

I'm assuming you don't have any other albino or het albino males, right? It's hard to say what you should do because it really depends on what you really want and what you're aiming for down the road (along with what snakes you have to do it with). From your post saying you want the visual and assuming you have no other males with any albino in them, I'd say leave the female be and just hope there was a lock and the eggs are fertile. Like Deborah said, not all females go every year. You could pair her with your ivory and then you could tell who sired each hatchling, but who knows if one of those yellowbellys would have been fertilized with the other sires sperm and given you an albino ph pied. And you'd be really sad if she laid all yellowbellys and then didn't get up to weight next year.

It's probably best (although hardest) to just throw in the towel and wait until next season.

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Nope, the double het is the only other male with albino. The ivory has locked with another female and she is displaying some favorable signs. So I'll hopefully have all the yb I want down the road. I considered the other two males because I want them in albino projects down the road, but I had other females planned for them to exclude poss hets.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Asherah

He was 822g empty when I began pairing and he is 710g empty today with a steady rate of weight loss.

As they were coiled together once, the rest of the time he was on the opposite side of the tub. However the female was very interested on each introduction and I noted "messes" were made during several pairings.

The female has exhibited no signs at this point. Eating normally. No bowl wrapping or seeking the cool side. She did go off feed for 3 weeks, but I believe that to have been the result of our move (as it came immediately after) rather than an indication of being gravid. She is eating consistently again.

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As far as the male I have seen male losing more than that and still be fine it's really a matter of managing your male well, make sure he gets rest, don't over breed and make sure it is well hydrated, pair when you have storms etc, a little tip males under 1000 grams I keep them in 15 quarts even V18 tubs during breeding season you might want to do that if you do not already.

One thing I have highlighted and that can play a roll in the lack of action "you moved", I can tell you that moves are often bad news when breeding especially right prior or during breeding season, I moved a few years back and it was the worse season I had. I know breeders who will not even move females to another room or even make dramatic changes such as switching bedding type during breeding season.

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Originally Posted by Deborah

As far as the male I have seen male losing more than that and still be fine it's really a matter of managing your male well, make sure he gets rest, don't over breed and make sure it is well hydrated, pair when you have storms etc, a little tip males under 1000 grams I keep them in 15 quarts even V18 tubs during breeding season you might want to do that if you do not already.

One thing I have highlighted and that can play a roll in the lack of action "you moved", I can tell you that moves are often bad news when breeding especially right prior or during breeding season, I moved a few years back and it was the worse season I had. I know breeders who will not even move females to another room or even make dramatic changes such as switching bedding type during breeding season.

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I'd be less worried about him but he's on the shy side, so I've decided to be overly careful. He's currently in a 15 qt and I'm keeping a close eye on him.

Gah, I know. Unfortunately the purchase of our house took several months longer than was originally expected. I did take all possible steps I could to minimize stress but like you said, we moved. We will see if she goes or not. I won't pair her with another male. There's always next year and patience is a virtue. :-)

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