Help me Understand Please

Are cinnamons and black pastels just two different names for the same co-dominant?

A lot of people have argued that the cinnamon and black pastel are the same morph, but I do not know 100% sure if this is true. Cinnamon x cinnamon makes an all brown - black BP, Black pastel x black pastel makes an all brown - black BP, and Cinnamon x Black Pastel makes an all brown - black BP. It really makes you wonder. But this can also be said about mojaves and lessers. By themselves they look different. But, a lesser x less makes an all white snake, a mojave x mojave makes an all white snake and a mojave x lesser makes an all white snake.

So we are not entirely sure. Thanks!

On the market, Cinnamons and Black Pastels are usually seen as two different morphs, although similar. I do think it would be seen as misleading or unorthodox to Have a Black Pastel x Spider clutch, and then advertise the hatchlings as Cinnamon Spiders. To me they are like Mystics and Phantoms, they have their similarities but they're recognized as different.

I just don't like the term black pastel. Mine has no black on it, which I understand is a standard marker.

While they are similar they are two different mutations that can be told apart and so are their combos.

Black Pastel pattern and color make them stand out more compare to Cinnies so do their combos.

they're in the same gene complex that produces the same super form, just as BEL complex animals produces, well, BEL's.

i can tell the single gene animals apart most of the time, but not so much with their supers. also most of the time, i can tell the difference between some of their combos - for example, Black Magics vs. Savannahs. i like to describe the two as Coke vs. Pepsi. same difference. ;)

Thanks for the knowledge, everyone. As I am continuing to learn the basics in genetics and morphs with these animals, it seems to get more convoluted. I'll OCD my way through it until I fully understand! :rolleye2:

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Originally Posted by BCS

But this can also be said about mojaves and lessers. By themselves they look different. But, a lesser x less makes an all white snake, a mojave x mojave makes an all white snake and a mojave x lesser makes an all white snake.

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Those combos generally look very different. There's the occasional white BEL but super mojaves have a Purple head, lesser combos have a yellow stripe or discoloration, and super Lessers are generally one of the purest whites along with russos. Super Lessers also have red/blue eyes compared to just blue.

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Originally Posted by BCS

But this can also be said about mojaves and lessers. By themselves they look different. But, a lesser x less makes an all white snake, a mojave x mojave makes an all white snake and a mojave x lesser makes an all white snake.

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Originally Posted by HannahLou

Those combos generally look very different. There's the occasional white BEL but super mojaves have a Purple head, lesser combos have a yellow stripe or discoloration, and super Lessers are generally one of the purest whites along with russos. Super Lessers also have red/blue eyes compared to just blue.

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my Super Mojave is all white and my Mojave-Butter has brown, black and gold colors. lol crazy! ;)

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Originally Posted by Ax01

my Super Mojave is all white and my Mojave-Butter has brown, black and gold colors. lol crazy! ;)

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Out of curiousity, did you produce the mojave butter? I know they do vary naturally in how the different BELs turn out but I wonder how often mochas, mojo, phantoms, specials, mystics.. all end up mislabeled. I spend wayyy to much time trying to learn the visual differences and still couldn't say for certain what half of them are without just having to trust the breeder. Having a slight variation in blushing and shades of yellow doesn't help much when even that isn't consistent! And while I'm complaining about BP lack of help and consistency, why can't my phantom read the calendar?? Doesn't she know I was supposed to wake up like it's Easter already?

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Originally Posted by HannahLou

Out of curiousity, did you produce the mojave butter? I know they do vary naturally in how the different BELs turn out but I wonder how often mochas, mojo, phantoms, specials, mystics.. all end up mislabeled. I spend wayyy to much time trying to learn the visual differences and still couldn't say for certain what half of them are without just having to trust the breeder. Having a slight variation in blushing and shades of yellow doesn't help much when even that isn't consistent! And while I'm complaining about BP lack of help and consistency, why can't my phantom read the calendar?? Doesn't she know I was supposed to wake up like it's Easter already?

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Just wondering how a Mojave butter has black and gold in it as well. A pic may do it justice

Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by Izzys Keeper

Just wondering how a Mojave butter has black and gold in it as well. A pic may do it justice

Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk

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I'm sure it's possible but that sounds more like some of the russo and mocha BEL stuff I've seen so that's why I was curious too if the Mojave is possibly something else.

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Originally Posted by Ax01

my Super Mojave is all white and my Mojave-Butter has brown, black and gold colors. lol crazy! ;)

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by HannahLou

Out of curiousity, did you produce the mojave butter? I know they do vary naturally in how the different BELs turn out but I wonder how often mochas, mojo, phantoms, specials, mystics.. all end up mislabeled. I spend wayyy to much time trying to learn the visual differences and still couldn't say for certain what half of them are without just having to trust the breeder. Having a slight variation in blushing and shades of yellow doesn't help much when even that isn't consistent! And while I'm complaining about BP lack of help and consistency, why can't my phantom read the calendar?? Doesn't she know I was supposed to wake up like it's Easter already?

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Izzys Keeper

Just wondering how a Mojave butter has black and gold in it as well. A pic may do it justice

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my Mojave x Butter BEL is a paradox. :P

i'm the owner of Rain, the famous high paradox BEL produced by Corey Delong of CD Constrictors. :) she's got a few pix thread. here's a recent one: http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...-BEL-Just-Shed!

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Originally Posted by Ax01

my Mojave x Butter BEL is a paradox. :P

i'm the owner of Rain, the famous high paradox BEL

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Cheater! I remembered shortly after posting. She's gorgeous!