Lilian, my new little BCI

I went to the NVA Reptile Expo this weekend and got my first snake! This all happened pretty quickly; something snake-related caught my interest and I was researching the crap out of them for a while, then realized that this show was coming right up. Got a bunch of supplies on order, and now... well here, I'll show you!

http://i.imgur.com/ehhJOqh.jpg
Look at that little tongue flick! :)

http://i.imgur.com/wQnBKeg.jpg
I held her in my hand for a good ten minutes, it was pretty adorable but it soon got uncomfortable to hold my hand like that, hah.

http://i.imgur.com/MqdPzxQ.jpg
Her grip is surprisingly strong! This was the first time she held on like that, before she would just wedge against my fingers and balance along my arm.

I've read that you're supposed to give a new snake some time to settle, and I have given her a lot of time alone in her tub, but on the other hand she seems quite comfortable roaming around in my hands and on my arms and on the floor. Tongue flicking, looking at everything, never a hint of aggression. I'm quite pleased!

http://i.imgur.com/2w8VSyh.jpg
Here's the setup. I'm using heater cable attached to a herpstat 1 set at 91F with the probe attached on the outside. Temps seem to be right on target in the bottom of the tub. I attached the cable to the cardboard using insulated 22awg wire as zip-ties, which worked out better than it sounds, but I will make something nicer and more secure with the heat tape I have coming in the mail tomorrow. Inside the heat lamp is a 60W ceramic heat emitter. The towel has flopped down a bit because I had the lid off, but I've been wrapping it around the back and right side to provide a bit of privacy, though Lily doesn't seem to care. I've seen her use both hides once, but generally she seems to just lay or coil up wherever she pleases.

http://i.imgur.com/m5in8SV.jpg
Closeup on the RH/temp meter. 60% and 82F, measured on the cool side. I keep the apartment at 74 or so, with a humidifier to keep the RH at 50%. It has been dry and wintry here so it would be very low otherwise.

The woman I bought her from said she's been eating live mice, and was last fed on the 16th. She recommended I try feeding her on Friday. I have frozen rat pinkies, I'll thaw and warm the smallest one I can find (which should be just right), brain it and set it near her tub for a bit, then offer it to her. Does that sound good? Maybe it'll be no trouble at all, but I want to do my best to ensure I get a good feeding response out of her.

Awwww she reminds me of all my little gals when they were babies!! Enjoy it while you can, they grow so fast. As for feeding, you shouldn't need to brain the rat. Boas have very good feeding responses. All my girls will eat in the middle of a hurricane and the minute they smell their rabbits and rats coming in, they both are out in force. Its about the only time I see them actually make an effort to move quick haha. Also some boas are just more "outgoing" and so like to come out and explore. My girls love to come out and sit on me but I would try and limit handling on your girl until she has taken a few meals. You can judge it and if on first feeding, she goes bananas and eats immediately, you are probably fine then. Just remember, you want to give them a couple days after eating to digest so no handling for 2 days. And lol you think it got uncomfortable after 10 mins on that worm, wait until that worms gets 6' and wants to ride on you and try and sit on your head, that's uncomfortable lol. Anyways grats on the worm and now you are hooked. Ill talk to you in a year or 2 and see a list of boas you got :P

If you can get a hold of some mice, I'd advise doing that instead of feeding a rat pink. Pinks are nothing but bags of water and fat, barely nutritious. There is also talk of boa constrictors being sensitive to milk belly because of the fat in the milk. I've heard of prolapses and death being attributed to milk belly.

A rat pink should be ok for the time being, but I'd try to get mouse fuzzies or mouse hoppers if you can, and waiting to offer rats until she's big enough for jumbo adult mice or rat pups/weaned rats. It's always best to feed as fully developed rodents as you can, since they have more calcium and other nutrients due to higher bone densities and more fully formed organs. Pinkies have rather underdeveloped organs and bones. Boa constrictors are not known for becoming attached to one prey item like ball pythons, so you should be able to make the switch easily when she's ready. You should also not have too much of a problem getting her onto f/t.

> A rat pink should be ok for the time being, but I'd try to get mouse fuzzies or mouse hoppers if you can, and waiting to offer rats until she's big enough for jumbo adult mice or rat pups/weaned rats.

Oh really, I bought rats specifically because I heard they were more nutritious, but what you're saying about feeding as fully-developed a rodent as possible makes sense. It looks like my local petsmart carries "arctic mice" brand mice-icles, which are crazy expensive per-mouse, but still a lot cheaper than having them shipped. I'll see what other options are available around here.

I am going to disagree and say to stick with rats. Hatchling boas should be able to eat a small fuzzy rat no problem. Most boas are fine switching between mice and rats, but I did have a couple boas that had a heck of a time switching when appropriate.

According to this paper on whole prey nutrition, it seems like rats and mice are nutritionally very similar, and table 3 shows a higher calcium percentage for neonatal rats compared to neonatal and juvenile mice. I think I'm going to stick with feeding rats.

I'm not sure about being big enough for a fuzzy rat, but maybe a fuzzy or hoper mouse. Even if you went off of the 10-15% rule (which is too much food for a boa), the bigger end is much too big. Mine came to me at a month old and 80 grams, quite a bit bigger than a newborn, and a rat fuzzy would still have been 12-24% of her weight.

Smaller meals are always best, so you want a meal that leaves a bulge with no scale separation for babies and no bulge for adults.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by CloudtheBoa

I'm not sure about being big enough for a fuzzy rat, but maybe a fuzzy or hoper mouse. Even if you went off of the 10-15% rule (which is too much food for a boa), the bigger end is much too big. Mine came to me at a month old and 80 grams, quite a bit bigger than a newborn, and a rat fuzzy would still have been 12-24% of her weight.

Smaller meals are always best, so you want a meal that leaves a bulge with no scale separation for babies and no bulge for adults.


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I've never been a big fan of weighing food items. I just go with what seems to be the right width. I also wouldn't call a rat pink a 'bag of water." Their protein to fat ratio might be more than a slightly older animal, but I can very much assure you that they have fully developed organs and are nutritionally relevant.

Baby mice are born with slightly underdeveloped organs that mature after birth, and their bone density increases as they age as well. They mature rapidly but as pinkies they are still too immature for a proper food source for boas. There is more of a bone presence in rats than mice as I think was mentioned but the high fat content doesn't mix well with boas. All boas are rather sensitive to fat and high contents of fat can cause digestive issues, so the lower the fat the better.


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Infant baby rodents have organs developed enough to provide nutrition.

Rats and mice prove to be nutritionally similar at relatively similar sizes. BCI boas aren't bps and can handle a bit bigger prey. From what I see in the OPs pic a small fuzzy rat should be fine.

Depends on the boa, Boa constrictor can't handle bigger prey and feeding a rat fuzzy to Suriname or other Boa constrictor of OPs size would result in a regurge. Boa imperator are a little more tolerant but even they can react badly to big prey, depending on the individual.

Maybe I'm not giving pinkies enough credit but then again I see no problem with starting on mice especially with the fat content and milk belly of pinks. Personal preference I guess.


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Well like I said in my previous post, I was referring to BCI, not BCC.

Mice are fine, I have fed them to litters I had in the past. I just noticed that over the years rats seem result in better growth.

Maybe, I'm kinda interested in testing it out myself. I've only got two imperators atm, so it's hardly anything to go off of.

I started Cloud out on rat pinks every 5 days and I'm still getting better growth and body condition out of my other BCI started on mouse hoppers eating every 7-10 days with 1-2 months where I fed her biweekly. She's getting ready to be moved up a size and she could still easily outstrip his growth from his first year with me.

I don't have the means to raise a bunch of boa babies right now, but in a few years if I'm ready to breed or simply get more boas, I'd like to further test out rat vs mouse growth rates.


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Good discussion.

I have a friend here that knows Gus Rentfro fairly well and has 2 Suriname BCC that Gus produced.

His recommendation for BCC is to stick with mice for the first year.

My BCI was already eating small rats before his first birthday in contrast to the above advice.

Less is more with boas, but BCI are rarely delicate like certain BCC and can handle more.

I don't think either of my imperators will be eating small rats by their first b-day. Cloud was only on rat pups I think after I had him a year, eating a rat pink to rat pup every 5 days. I fed them off to him as soon as their eyes were fully open at that age, since I raised my own rats (only reason I started him on rats). He was only 2'7".

Nymeria is growing a bit faster, but I'm not sure she'll be on small rats by then either. I have no doubt she'll be started on rats by then - rat pups or weaned, but I don't think small rats is a realistic goal for her. But we'll see, it's been awhile since I had a baby and she's still got 4 months and a food bump coming. She'll still be well within the average yearling size regardless.


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Heck my 3 year old girl just went to weaned rabbits and she loves them. After the first feeding, she went into shed. let the growth spurt begin :P My 2 year old sunglow is still on small rats. I have fed both my gals rats and mice and haven't really noticed a difference. I never have fed pinkie rats though. The smallest any of my gals have eaten have been hopper mice or fuzzy rats. I personally don't think it makes a difference. The amount of time they will be on something that small is going to be pretty short. I believe more in a varied diet. I sometimes still feed my sunglow gal a large mouse once a week and then vary it up to a small rat every 2 weeks. My Colombian girl is going to get rabbits for probably 3-4 feedings as they are new and she seems to really love them, so much so, she actually hissed and pulled the rabbit away when I was trying to pick aspen off it while she was swallowing lol. She never did that with rats. After that I will vary her with a few rats here and there and rabbits and if I can find a local quail guy, i'll probably try quail for her.

It depends on the snake to an extent, though I'd never push a BCC.

This is my fella 2 days before his 1st B-day. This actually may be a medium rat.

http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/y...a/DSC00426.jpg

He is a lean, loaf and looks like a piece of ribbon.

I have to reiterate that I feed using a feast/famine method that includes various types and sizes of prey. That is also coupled with some very long periods without food.

http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/y...a/DSC00428.jpg

I was going to post another picture but feel I've thrown this thread off course.



O/P, I think you have a wonderful new boa. I recommend you feed conservatively and get to know your snake.

A large meal here and there will not typically hurt a BCI, but you need to be aware they will need time to fully "clean out".


They grow fast, but there is nothing wrong with a 10-14 day schedule.

Also to note, different places size rats differently. What might be a small to one shop is a weanling to others as in some just lump weanlings and small into 1 size. So I always visually check them out but I also go into the reptile shop with my own buckets and they toss in live of what size I ask for so I can check them out before leaving. The rabbits though are F/T as I haven't gotten the nerve up yet to pre kill rabbits :P Also I did 10-14 days up to 1 year with my gal, then 14-21 days up to 2 years. Then after that, its 3-4 weeks per feeding. This is averaged though as sometimes they get smaller food more quickly and sometimes larger food on a longer schedule. Anyways, I'm perpetuating this off topic even further, sorry lol.

Well, I fed her a rat pinkie! On the first attempt she struck it but didn't get a good bite, and swung it into her water dish (she was on her vine at the time), and let go after struggling for a moment. I warmed the rat back up and let her have another go at it, and she got it better that time. Took her a bit to get it pointed down her throat properly, but she got it. Now she's spread out along the edge of the tub in her usual spot. I'll let her digest for now! :)

Grats. I figured she would eat pretty easily. About the only time a boa wont eat is if its sick. Otherwise they seem to not really care where they are as long as food is incoming ;)

Hah! Yeah, I got a boa partly because I read they were outgoing and good eaters. I'm glad this one seems to be living up to that reputation.

An update:

She kept the meal down, so that's good. I weighed her yesterday, 56 grams. Leetle snake! :)

I switched her over to the aspen bedding I bought. She had made two messes on the paper towels that I didn't notice, I guess I'll have to clean the tub more often because that stuff is hard to spot.

She seems to really like the "vines" I installed. I often find her chilling out on them.

Oh, and today I had an emergency... Had to go buy a freezer because my fridge died. Didn't care so much about the food I had in it, but I really wanted to keep the rats frozen. It's all good now, I have a 5 cubic foot freezer now.

65 grams now! She'll be eating her third meal (under my watch, anyway) in a few days.

https://i.imgur.com/PpMc5Cx.jpg

Sooooo tiny and cute!! Makes me want another baby snake as all mine are grown now and fat lazy slugs that only move when they smell food or I take them out and make them spend some quality exercise time lol.

Hah! Yeah, this one is very active. At certain times of the day I can hold her all balled up in my hand like in the previous pic, but usually she's rarin' to explore.

I remember those days.

Good times when they are small. Everybody is in a rush to get them big, but I have to say its a lot of fun when they are small and you are just waiting to see where they end up.

Have fun!

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Originally Posted by Gio

I remember those days.

Good times when they are small. Everybody is in a rush to get them big, but I have to say its a lot of fun when they are small and you are just waiting to see where they end up.

Have fun!

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They are for sure fun when they are small. Then they get big and want to plop on you or ride on your shoulders. And trying to wrestle a bigger boa off a rain gutter or a tree branch you paused by is even more fun :rolleyes: