Where to monitor temps for my new ball python viv

Hi,

I will shortly be the proud owner of my first snake, a ball python. I have a vivarium setup, substrate is in, hides in place, heat mat for warm spot etc.

My issue is with the temperatures showing. I have one thermometer on the cool side and one on the hot side. They are the standard sticky thermometers made by Exo-Terra. The cool side shows a temp of about 68f or 69f. The warm side is showing temps of around 70f-72f. This concerned me greatly as I know it should be a lot warmer in there.

I then got a digital thermometer and placed it on the substrate in the hide of the warm side. This then showed temps of around 95f.

My question is, when I'm told what temp the hot and cold sides are meant to be, do they mean the surface that the snake touches (the substrate) or the general air temp? If it means the surfaces then I'm doing fine, but if it's the air temp then it needs to be a LOT warmer.

Picture of my setup below for a better understanding of what I'm dribbling about :)

http://i.imgur.com/my31bQ0.jpg

You're doing fine by the sounds of it , the temps you need are on the surface where the snakes are going to be .. Those stick on thermometers are basically useless in my opinion - for this situation anyway .

Incidentally whilst the viv looks real nice and neat at the moment , I'd add loads of branches and / or bark pieces ( from local woods ) this will create more hiding places and make it feel lovely and secure . even add some fake plastic plants which look great as well .
It will climb in the branches in the evenings as well which looks real cool and give them some decent exercise ...

Couple of things. firstly get rig of those analogue temp gauges. They are pretty much useless. get a couple of Accurite digital Thermometer/Humidity meter, they are like 12 bucks at home depot.


The thermometers should be used as a guide only, place one on hot side one on warm side. The humidity reading should be used as an accurite reading and you should adjust humidity in the cage accordingly.

Get a temperature gun, they are inexpensive ($10) , they fire an infrared beam at a target and give you the true temp, that's what you need to be using to check your temps.

And then to answer your question, the temp should be set correctly where the snakes body is going to be touching. I.e. the substrate of the floor :) For reference the hot side of my tank on the substrate in 91f and the warm is 79f

Hope that helps :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ShaggyRS6

Couple of things. firstly get rig of those analogue temp gauges. They are pretty much useless. get a couple of Accurite digital Thermometer/Humidity meter, they are like 12 bucks at home depot.


The thermometers should be used as a guide only, place one on hot side one on warm side. The humidity reading should be used as an accurite reading and you should adjust humidity in the cage accordingly.

Get a temperature gun, they are inexpensive, they fire an infrared beam at a target and give you the true temp, that's what you need to be using to check your temps.

And then to answer your question, the temp should be set correctly where the snakes body is going to be touching. I.e. the substrate of the floor :)

Hope that helps :)

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Good point about getting a digital temp thermometer gun .

They're really useful , darn accurate as well plus they're available for about 13 bucks off eBay !!

One more thing you might check before the snake goes in is how much the temperature varies between the middle of the space and right up against the wall. The difference should be smaller than it would be in a glass tank, but depending on the differential between your room temperature and your enclosure temperature, it could still be substantial. You probably won't leave the acurite sitting in the middle all the time because the snake will just knock it around, but you can use it to check. Let it sit for awhile until the reading stabilizes... if your room temperature is cool, the ambient temperature in the cage will drop when you open it by a fair amount, but should stabilize reasonably well when you close the door.

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Originally Posted by Zincubus

You're doing fine by the sounds of it , the temps you need are on the surface where the snakes are going to be .. Those stick on thermometers are basically useless in my opinion - for this situation anyway .

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Half right and wrong.
Those thermometers are junk and only measuring your ambient temperatures.
Where is yout heat mat located?
If it is under the tank then your digital that is trlling you 95 degrees causes a couple problems.......
1 is your mat regutated?
2 your snake can and WILL burrow so you do not measure temperatures on top of the substrate. You always measure the temperature of the surface your animal can come into contact with. This would be under the substrate directly on the glass.

That's interesting you say about burrowing Pitontheprowl, mine never has.

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

Half right and wrong.
Those thermometers are junk and only measuring your ambient temperatures.
Where is yout heat mat located?
If it is under the tank then your digital that is trlling you 95 degrees causes a couple problems.......
1 is your mat regutated?
2 your snake can and WILL burrow so you do not measure temperatures on top of the substrate. You always measure the temperature of the surface your animal can come into contact with. This would be under the substrate directly on the glass.

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Mmmmm - that's an interesting point , mine are all on Orchid bark and don't burrow at all - EVER , that said , they're all different of course .

I naturally presumed the heatmat was thermostatically controlled , of course .


This is lifted directly from the official Royal Python.co uk website caresheet incidentally.

.... http://www.theroyalpython.co.uk/roya...care_sheet.htm

" Place the thermometers near the hides on top of the substrate as this is where your Royal Python will spend the majority of it's time. One end should be around 33°C and the other around 24°C. Checking temperatures regularly is advised to ensure that your Royal Python can thermo-regulate by moving around the tank"

First of all, thank you! All of you for your suggestions and help!

On to PitOnTheProwl's questions.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

Half right and wrong.
Those thermometers are junk and only measuring your ambient temperatures.
Where is yout heat mat located?
If it is under the tank then your digital that is trlling you 95 degrees causes a couple problems.......
1 is your mat regutated?
2 your snake can and WILL burrow so you do not measure temperatures on top of the substrate. You always measure the temperature of the surface your animal can come into contact with. This would be under the substrate directly on the glass.

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The mat is inside the the tank, under the substrate.
My heat mat is regulated with a thermostat, but the sensor is currently at the back of the tank, a good 10 inches from the ground. I assume that I should try to put it close to the ground and near to the mat?

The sensor from your thermostat should be placed directly on your heat source or you are in serious jepordy of an over temp.

Keeping the heat mat inside the tank is not a standard practice for a verity of reasons.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Slim

The sensor from your thermostat should be placed directly on your heat source or you are in serious jepordy of an over temp.

Keeping the heat mat inside the tank is not a standard practice for a verity of reasons.

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The base of the tank is made out of quite thick wood, so I doubt a heat mat would do anything at all if place underneath the entire tank.

Perhaps I need to think about a ceramic lamp instead?

I should also point out that I use a radiant heat panel. So my thermostat probe is on top of the substrate. The thermostat puts out 93.8F to keep the surface of the substrate at 91f. The temp then progressively falls off as you move further away from the hot end, at its coldest point its 78f on the substrate.

The hide in which my BP spends all of his time in the day is at 80-81F and then he basks on a branch at night that is at 92F

I don't have the thermostat on a night setting it stays at those temps mentioned all the time.

You need to think about something other than wood unless you're talking about something that is 100% sealed, like melamine. Wood will mold and rot in no time under the humidity requirements for ball pythons and as the snakes do their thing all over it.

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Originally Posted by ShaggyRS6

That's interesting you say about burrowing Pitontheprowl, mine never has.

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Mine do! I have them in aspen, and make it a little deeper then usual just for this purpose. They really love pushing it around and and making little paths under and through it.

Oh, and if you get stuff from outside as Zinc suggested and not from a specific pet or reptile place, be sure to cure it first. You do not want to introduce possible disease, parasites, annoying bugs, etc into your snake's or your home!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lizardlicks

You need to think about something other than wood unless you're talking about something that is 100% sealed, like melamine. Wood will mold and rot in no time under the humidity requirements for ball pythons and as the snakes do their thing all over it.



Mine do! I have them in aspen, and make it a little deeper then usual just for this purpose. They really love pushing it around and and making little paths under and through it.

Oh, and if you get stuff from outside as Zinc suggested and not from a specific pet or reptile place, be sure to cure it first. You do not want to introduce possible disease, parasites, annoying bugs, etc into your snake's or your home!

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Maybe I will make the substrate deeper the next time i change it. How deep do you have yours? I use Cyprus mulch and dont keep it that deep, maybe about a half inch

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ShaggyRS6

Maybe I will make the substrate deeper the next time i change it. How deep do you have yours? I use Cyprus mulch and dont keep it that deep, maybe about a half inch

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At a 1/2 inch they can move it to come in contact with the floor of the enclosure, it would explain that yours don't burrow when they don't have an option to.
Mine move their aspen all over the place, several of my tubs look empty because they have moved all the aspen to the back of the tub.

Maybe I will leave a pile in a corner to see what happens.