Enchi or Normal?

Hey, I bought this snake about a month ago and apparently it's not an enchi?

I just want a second opinion.

http://i.imgur.com/Zi1pIkh.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/gXSG3G7.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/jmL88CH.jpg

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

Originally I was going to say no, not enchi. The eyes however look like enchi eyes and I see some pixilating. I think I'm going to settle on the side of it's a low quality enchi.

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The first two pics look like a normal. But the belly shot looks Enchi to me, heres my Enchi to compare to.

http://i568.photobucket.com/albums/s...sbvyxyvlc.jpeg

Was he/she sold as an Enchi?

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Originally Posted by Mustang5

The first two pics look like a normal. But the belly shot looks Enchi to me, heres my Enchi to compare to.


Was he/she sold as an Enchi?

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Yes, he was. I appreciate the input guys. I'm sorta freaking out right now because he was sold as an enchi and was going to be the base of some of my projects.

Yeah I was going to say no at first too but the belly shot showing the yellow on the sides is a definite enchi trait. :)


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You could always try to breed him and see if he is an Enchi. Based on the belly pic it is a real possibility that he is just a low quality Enchi.

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Originally Posted by Mustang5

You could always try to breed him and see if he is an Enchi. Based on the belly pic it is a real possibility that he is just a low quality Enchi.

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I want to personally. But my partner is afraid of it not proving out or just creating really low quality enchis again. We're both kind of starting out and we're trying to get settled as fast as possible. I use settled as having a good selection of quality animals as a base.

Uuuh, "enchi eyes"? I've never heard of that. Do you mean to say that they're green? Because I don't see that in these pics. Even normals can have things like pixelation in their patterning, no one normal is ever the same as the last, so that's not really a good marker either. Enchi is a pretty distinctive morph. it affects both color and pattern and this snake shows neither the bright yellowy-orange color or the classic banded pattern. Definitely not an enchi.

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I want to personally. But my partner is afraid of it not proving out or just creating really low quality enchis again. We're both kind of starting out and we're trying to get settled as fast as possible. I use settled as having a good selection of quality animals as a base.

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I would agree with your partner there. If that's an enchi it's super low quality and not worth proving out.

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Originally Posted by Lizardlicks

Uuuh, "enchi eyes"? I've never heard of that. Do you mean to say that they're green? Because I don't see that in these pics. Even normals can have things like pixelation in their patterning, no one normal is ever the same as the last, so that's not really a good marker either. Enchi is a pretty distinctive morph. it affects both color and pattern and this snake shows neither the bright yellowy-orange color or the classic banded pattern. Definitely not an enchi.

Edit:

I would agree with your partner there. If that's an enchi it's super low quality and not worth proving out.

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Enchi, like pastel changes the color of the eyes.

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Originally Posted by Seven-Thirty

Yes, he was. I appreciate the input guys. I'm sorta freaking out right now because he was sold as an enchi and was going to be the base of some of my projects.

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If I were you, I would not use him as a base for a breeding project. He's a great pet, but a nice clean enchi embodying the morph should be what your looking for. Start with an animal you have no questions about what morph it is.

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Originally Posted by Asherah

If I were you, I would not use him as a base for a breeding project. He's a great pet, but a nice clean enchi embodying the morph should be what your looking for. Start with an animal you have no questions about what morph it is.

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I guess that's the plan then. I have to figure out what to do with him now considering I'm pretty strpped for space. I want to keep him but space is a huge factor.

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Originally Posted by Seven-Thirty

I guess that's the plan then. I have to figure out what to do with him now considering I'm pretty strpped for space. I want to keep him but space is a huge factor.

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It is with us as well. Decisions like that are the worst

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You could certainly rehome him as a normal, though I wouldn't try to advertise it as an enchi and pass the same thing that happen to you on to someone else. It's a hard lesson, but the one to take away is that if you aren't 100% certain of the morph on purchase, that is not an animal you want to buy for your breeding stock. When you know the morph you want to plug into your projects, spend a few days looking up examples of that morph and studying it before hand. That way you've had some practice learning to recognize it, and it'as fresh in your mind.

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Originally Posted by Asherah

Enchi, like pastel changes the color of the eyes.

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I tried zooming in on the pic and I still don't see the green. You must have a waaaay better display than I do, they don't look green to me at all :/

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Originally Posted by Lizardlicks

You could certainly rehome him as a normal, though I wouldn't try to advertise it as an enchi and pass the same thing that happen to you on to someone else. It's a hard lesson, but the one to take away is that if you aren't 100% certain of the morph on purchase, that is not an animal you want to buy for your breeding stock. When you know the morph you want to plug into your projects, spend a few days looking up examples of that morph and studying it before hand. That way you've had some practice learning to recognize it, and it'as fresh in your mind.



I tried zooming in on the pic and I still don't see the green. You must have a waaaay better display than I do, they don't look green to me at all :/

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I can nowhere see the eye color either.

Keep him as a pet if you want, rehome him, whatever you decide, sorry this happened! I was looking for Enchis a year ago and almost bought a low quality one off craigslist before I decided to ask others if it was a good example of an enchi. Personally, I would sell him and invest in a male with more genes. You want powerhouse males (3+) that can be bred to single gene / less gene females to be the most economical. Enchi Lessers are one of my favorite combos. Mojave Enchis are awesome too.

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Originally Posted by Galaxygirl

I can nowhere see the eye color either.

Keep him as a pet if you want, rehome him, whatever you decide, sorry this happened! I was looking for Enchis a year ago and almost bought a low quality one off craigslist before I decided to ask others if it was a good example of an enchi. Personally, I would sell him and invest in a male with more genes. You want powerhouse males (3+) that can be bred to single gene / less gene females to be the most economical. Enchi Lessers are one of my favorite combos. Mojave Enchis are awesome too.

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I would try to sell him but I highly doubt anyone would want a nice looking normal. Im also torn on whether the guy I bought it from purposely ripped me off or not. And now I'm concerned the super pastel he sold me isn't a super pastel. q-q
Regardless I'm still keeping him for now until I find him a good home. Thanks for the input guys I really appreciate it.

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Originally Posted by Seven-Thirty

I would try to sell him but I highly doubt anyone would want a nice looking normal. Im also torn on whether the guy I bought it from purposely ripped me off or not. And now I'm concerned the super pastel he sold me isn't a super pastel. q-q
Regardless I'm still keeping him for now until I find him a good home. Thanks for the input guys I really appreciate it.

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Show us the Super Pastel and we'll let you know what we think. The belly on him does look like enchi, he might be a low expression. I thought the photos of the top side of him and the belly were two different snakes.

http://i.imgur.com/3ksAwYU.jpg
This is the super pastel I got from the same guy. It looks like one but it could be something else for all I know. Thanks for everything guys. I really appreciate it.

In my limited experience with super pastels, I would say yes that looks like one. But you might want to wait to see some other opinions.

Certainly looks like a super pastel. The only thing I'd tend to be wary about with pastel morphs is browning out. What do the parents look like? Did they brown out a lot? If so, that little one has a high chance of doing the same.

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Originally Posted by Lizardlicks

Certainly looks like a super pastel. The only thing I'd tend to be wary about with pastel morphs is browning out. What do the parents look like? Did they brown out a lot? If so, that little one has a high chance of doing the same.

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I have no idea to be honest. Like I said I bough these two as a bundle from a dude when I was jsut buying my "base collection" to start my breeding projects. Thanks for everyything though guys.

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Originally Posted by Lizardlicks

You could certainly rehome him as a normal, though I wouldn't try to advertise it as an enchi and pass the same thing that happen to you on to someone else. It's a hard lesson, but the one to take away is that if you aren't 100% certain of the morph on purchase, that is not an animal you want to buy for your breeding stock. When you know the morph you want to plug into your projects, spend a few days looking up examples of that morph and studying it before hand. That way you've had some practice learning to recognize it, and it'as fresh in your mind.



I tried zooming in on the pic and I still don't see the green. You must have a waaaay better display than I do, they don't look green to me at all :/

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We shall have to agree to disagree. When I zoom in on the top pic, it to me, has green eyes.

Op, could you perhaps be persuaded to get some better pics of the enchi s eyes and settle this for us? :-)

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I suggest waiting, getting more space, and doing more research before heading into a breeding project.

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Originally Posted by distaff

I suggest waiting, getting more space, and doing more research before heading into a breeding project.

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Im not planning on breeding this year, it's more of a long term project.none of my females are up to weight and age and wont be for at least a year xD.

as for pictures of his eyes, i'll have them tonight. He ate last night so i want to give him some time to digest.

I lied, my partner went and did it already. Sorry for the double post.

http://i.imgur.com/Eq18ZeJ.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/rpYnCCZ.jpg

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Originally Posted by Seven-Thirty

I want to personally. But my partner is afraid of it not proving out or just creating really low quality enchis again. We're both kind of starting out and we're trying to get settled as fast as possible. I use settled as having a good selection of quality animals as a base.

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If the seller sold him as enchi to you and misrepresented the animal maybe you should give him a call about your dissatisfaction. Ask him if there is some way he can make the situation right. See where that takes you and if you are not satisfied go to plan B. Most breeders will stand by their productions if they value their customers and their reputations. A word to the wise is sufficient. Good luck.

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Originally Posted by Albert Clark

If the seller sold him as enchi to you and misrepresented the animal maybe you should give him a call about your dissatisfaction. Ask him if there is some way he can make the situation right. See where that takes you and if you are not satisfied go to plan B. Most breeders will stand by their productions if they value their customers and their reputations. A word to the wise is sufficient. Good luck.

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Just got off the phone with him now actually. He is 100% sure that it is an enchi so yeah. I like to give people benefit of the doubt but yeah, this enchi looks nothing like the ones I've seen on the internet.

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Originally Posted by Seven-Thirty

Just got off the phone with him now actually. He is 100% sure that it is an enchi so yeah. I like to give people benefit of the doubt but yeah, this enchi looks nothing like the ones I've seen on the internet.

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Those eyes look greenish to me but maybe due to the low expression is why they are not jumping out at us. Lol. Is the breeder willing to serve you in any way, shape or form?

Did he mention the pairing that produced him? If he's from a Super Enchi parent, he's definitely enchi.

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Originally Posted by Albert Clark

Those eyes look greenish to me but maybe due to the low expression is why they are not jumping out at us. Lol. Is the breeder willing to serve you in any way, shape or form?

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Nah not really. He's 100% sure it's enchi. He just told me to go on world of ball pythons and compare it.

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Originally Posted by Galaxygirl

Did he mention the pairing that produced him? If he's from a Super Enchi parent, he's definitely enchi.

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He didn't he just said it's an enchi 100%.

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...-this-an-Enchi

Here's my older thread on this topic. If you scroll down you can see some pics of some low expression enchis


This thread was also helpful:

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forum...chi-royal.html

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Originally Posted by Galaxygirl

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...-this-an-Enchi

Here's my older thread on this topic. If you scroll down you can see some pics of some low expression enchis


This thread was also helpful:

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forum...chi-royal.html

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Yeah im just concluding that he's a very low expression enchi. Thanks. Kinda sad now but eh. Learning.

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Originally Posted by Seven-Thirty

Yeah im just concluding that he's a very low expression enchi. Thanks. Kinda sad now but eh. Learning.

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Don't worry about it! A lot of people fall victim to this. As a rule, it might be a good idea to consult with others when looking to buy, no harm in posting a pic and asking about quality.

Did you expect him to say anything else other than "its an enchi i promise" Ofc hes going to keep saying it so he doesnt look like a liar lol who would admit its not an enchi and they scammed you. The super pastel looks decent, but to me the "enchi" looks like a normal with kinda yellowish sides nothing in pattern says enchi to me, and the yellow coloration is common among normals. If i were you return the "enchi" But this is all my OPINION

This is what i mean by normal high yellow

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...-yellow-normal

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Originally Posted by BigJay

Did you expect him to say anything else other than "its an enchi i promise" Ofc hes going to keep saying it so he doesnt look like a liar lol who would admit its not an enchi and they scammed you. The super pastel looks decent, but to me the "enchi" looks like a normal with kinda yellowish sides nothing in pattern says enchi to me, and the yellow coloration is common among normals. If i were you return the "enchi" But this is all my OPINION

This is what i mean by normal high yellow

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...-yellow-normal

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Iunno how you're supposed to 'return' a ball python. Especially fromma hobby breeder.

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Originally Posted by Seven-Thirty

Iunno how you're supposed to 'return' a ball python. Especially fromma hobby breeder.

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I'm very reluctant to accept a return as then that hatchling has to be quarantined for months and cannot be sold during that time.. :(

I have some pictures of a black pastel het albino from a different guy and I'm not sure if he's black pastel or cinnamon, if you guys don't mind looking. The guy said he's in shed now.http://i.imgur.com/vVck1oA.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/AQlKQl1.jpg

hard for me to tell when he is in shed but it is a good looking snake eather way

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BigJay

Did you expect him to say anything else other than "its an enchi i promise" Ofc hes going to keep saying it so he doesnt look like a liar lol who would admit its not an enchi and they scammed you. The super pastel looks decent, but to me the "enchi" looks like a normal with kinda yellowish sides nothing in pattern says enchi to me, and the yellow coloration is common among normals. If i were you return the "enchi" But this is all my OPINION

This is what i mean by normal high yellow

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...-yellow-normal

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It's the seller's job to back up genetics but from reading this thread it looks like most are saying that this is simply a low expression enchi. Seems more like a case of buyer's remorse than a seller scamming someone.

Thanks for the extra pictures. I still stand by its a very low expression enchi. Even though the morph is a color and pattern mutation, the expression of the genes can be variable. I would ask what the pairing was and maybe pictures of the parents.

Your black pastel and super pastel appear to be what they were sold to you as.

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Originally Posted by Asherah

Thanks for the extra pictures. I still stand by its a very low expression enchi. Even though the morph is a color and pattern mutation, the expression of the genes can be variable. I would ask what the pairing was and maybe pictures of the parents.

Your black pastel and super pastel appear to be what they were sold to you as.

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Thanks. Im glad everything else is what it actually is. As for the enchi I'm just going to put it up and see who replies.