New baby keeps trying to strike - HELP!

Hi everyone! This is my first post and am excited to be a part of this community. I just wish my first post was a different topic :( My 6 year old daughter has been asking for a pet snake for a long time. We originally thought a corn snake would be a good choice but changed our minds to a ball python after a number of recommendations from people who said they were a better choice for a 6 year old because they were so docile and laid back.

I wanted the best first snake experience for my daughter so we chose the ball python because of their supposed calm nature. I wanted her to have as little fear, hopefully no fear around the snake.We researched and got everything ready for it to come home. We finally went to pick the snake up yesterday night and placed it into its new home. As soon as we did it quickly found a hiding spot between one of the 2 hides and the glass wall of the 20 gallon long tank. She stayed there and hasn't moved since.

Today my daughter was dying to hold her new baby, so tonight after leaving the snake for 24 hrs to get used to its new home, we decided to take it out for a quick introduction to start getting it used to us. The second I opened the tank it "ran" away from us into a hide. I gently lifted the hide and slowly moved my hand to pick her up around the middle of her body away from her head. She striked out at me immediately. This made my daughter jump back afraid. I tried to play it off as it was nothing and picked the snake up out of the tank. I sat down with it and as I crossed my leg she striked out at it while I was holding it in my hands.

This made my daughter not want to hold it at all. I could feel the snake tense up any time I moved my hand even a slight bit under it or touched it anywhere. My daughter stroked it gently and it tensed right up into an 'S' shape. It was obvious the snake was very scared and defensive. I was very very suprised at this behaviour, and my poor daughter was afraid.

I really hoping for some advice and reassurance from all of you amazing ball python veterans here. I'm feeling a bit upset that maybe we chose the wrong snake for my daughter. Everything I've read so far stated that ball pythons were calm docile snakes. Ours seems terrified and defensive. I know it's only been a day since it's been home with us but I didn't think it would be trying to bite us at all. Maybe she needs more time alone before we try again?

Here's a few things I'm wondering about now:
- Will this striking subside over time with handling?
- Did we handle the snake too soon after taking it home?
- She has 2 hides in a 20 gallon tank. Should I give it more?
- If it strikes should we leave it alone or take it out right after to show it that striking won't make us go away?
- Why does our baby strike at us when almost every other post on here and everyone we've talked to said bp's rarely or never try to bite you?

I would really appreciate any other advise you could give us to make our snake feel safe around us and not want to bite us. I've tried searching on this forum but I can't find much on this topic. I know all snakes have their own personalities but I honestly thought striking bp's were very far and few between.

I would really like it if anyone who has been in this situation could comment. I'm feeling a bit deflated at the moment. I just want to know if there is hope for a happy docile ball python for myself and my 6 year old daughter.

Thanks so much everyone!

You should wait much longer than 24 hours to try to handle a new snake . Let them get used to the new surroundings and even take a few meals . As a rule of thumb I wait until mine have eaten 5 times before I handle them .


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Odds are that the snake will settle down with time, growing up, and gentle handling.

Yes, you probably did try handling it too soon - most recommendations are to wait at least a week before handling. As a first-time snake owner you were probably less than confident (not picking on you, just what happens without much experience), which will also make the snake nervous.

2 hides should be sufficient, but make sure they're snug, the snake will be happier in a tight hide than with one that's too big. You can also increase baby's security by cluttering up the tank with aquarium plants, crumpled up paper, etc.

You're on the right track with the question about what to do when it does strike - if you leave it alone or put it back in the tank after striking, it'll learn that's how to get left alone.

Use the search function and look for a thread in the last week or so started by AKADave, which includes a video with handling tips.

It may help to explain to your daughter that the snake is scared, because to a baby BP humans are giant giant scary monsters that are bigger than its whole house, and you just lifted its bedroom off of it when it was trying to hide under its bed. Its new home is also probably not exactly the same as what it was where it came from, so it also had a scary move yesterday on top of all that.


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Snakes are like people, they have different personalities. My Donuts was cool with being handled right out of the box she came shipped in. She wanted to explore everything! But some snakes are like the BP you got, scared and defensive. This is okay and it can be helped, but it will take a lot more time and patience. I know this advice is not really helpful to you anymore, but when buying a pet specifically based on temperament, you should definitely select one whose behavior and attitude you have witnessed yourself.

There are a lot of different ways to make a BP less defensive and prone to striking, but I would say the route you need to go for now is letting your new baby get settled into home. It is probably very scared. Try explaining to your daughter some scenario like, "imagine if giant aliens came and lifted up the blankets off your bed and picked you up out of it. That would be very scary, and you might try to kick them or hit them because you don't know that they're nice yet." or something like that; not sure how mature your daughter is but basically try to get her to understand the snake's behavior. People are usually fearful of things if they can't understand the way they work and predict their reactions. Additionally, kids seem to do better when they feel like an animal is more scared of them than they are of it. I remember hearing that old saying long ago (about bees, I remember!) and suddenly having a greater understanding of why animals seem to hurt people for what I had previously thought was no good reason.

Also, can I ask what kind of setup you have the snake in? A lot of babies are shy and prefer to have a darkened, enclosed living space. The fishtank situation is scary for some of them because they feel exposed on all sides. Lots of people cover the sides of their glass tanks either with a neutral paper that doesn't stick out too much among the decor, or buying jungly pattern wallpaper to make the vivarium look nice. Either way is up to you, but I do think that will help since your snake seems to be stressed from being vulnerable (i.e. not hidden away in its hide).

I myself got a new baby this past Tuesday. I held him for a few pictures after he arived and then I put him in his enclosure. He ate for me Thursday and now I think he is in shed. I never bother my snakes when they are in shed. I am ready to hold him because he is my dream snake:) The other snakes I have I have waited a week before handling.

I think that there maybe some videos on YouTube about holding little ones that are a little nervous and stricky:)

Don't worry, this is normal behavior.
Baby snakes can be feisty haha
I'd leave him/her in the tank for 4-7 days so he/she can fully adjust. Some take a little longer to adjust.
After that, Maybe just try putting your hands in the tank to show him/her you're not a threat. Once he/she is comfortable with that, try gently petting him/her. Then, move to handling.
Good Luck:)

Prognathodon pretty much hit the nail on the head. Waiting a week is usually good. It's also important (and I know almost impossible) to ask your child to sit as still as possible. Young bp's often get startled easily by simple, sudden movements. My suggestion would be, wait a week then have your daughter sit down on the couch, and you can place the snake in her hands, on her lap. I've found that to work the best with younger children.

You have to remember a hatchling thinks everything it trying to kill and eat it. :rofl::rofl::rofl:

Most will calm with time, though I do have a large male that doesn't trust me and I don't trust him.
As already mentioned, leave it alone for about a week.
Also double check your husbandry to make sure its comfortable.
What temperatures are you heating to and what are you using to heat the enclosure?

This type of behavior is typical hatchling responses to obstacles in their space. Human babies cry and throw tantrums when they are hungry, upset, scared or otherwise unhappy. Baby snakes will hiss and huff and puff including striking out to bite when they are frightened and stressed. Definitely everything that is posted here is all factual and inclusive of the points that will help you and your daughter begin to understand and enjoy your baby ball python more. You will really need to reconsider such a large enclosure for now. Baby ball pythons do much better in 6 quart tubs. If you want to use a glass enclosure a 5 gallon is a better temporary housing that will help to expedite his adjustment and well being. Congrats and welcome to baby ball python care 101.

Thanks for all of your quick responses everyone! We will definitely wait a week now to handle her again. I just peaked in at her in the dark and she's peaking her head out of the hide. I hope she tries to explore tonight.

As for her home for now, it's a 20 gallon long glass tank. It is heated with 2 infrared bulbs. One 75 on the hot side and a 50 the middle. The warm side is 88 - 90 and the cold is 81 with a hide on each side. There is a large water bowl in the Centre with paper towel for substrate for now. I live in Canada so the temps are quite cold. The uth was not cutting it as the air would only reach 72 at the highest with the heat pad at 115 °F! Way too hot for a uth. So I switched to lamps completely and the temps are good now. I have damp moss in each hide for humidity as the air is very dry here as well. Keeping humidity in the entire tank has been impossible. Would a small tub inside the tank be better until she's bigger?

I've told m daughter only slow calm quite movements around her tank so she doesn't scare her, but slow and steady for a 6 year old is relative, lol. She trying her best so far.

We will have to feed her in a few days so to not handle her should I feed her in her tank or in a feeding tub? Before we got her she was fed in her tank but I wanted to feed her in the tub so she wouldn't associate put hands with food. But if we shouldn't be handling her would in her tank be better?

Thanks again for all your help everyone!!! Maybe there's hope for a calm snake after all!

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Feed her in her environment, it's actually way less stressful for the animal. I tried to do the same with my first one and all it did was make him more antsy and less likely to eat. He was also a biter. I gave him and entire month of little to no contact other than what was necessary when I first got him. He didn't even like to ball up it was pure offense and he did not want me near him. You could say his favorite pastime was biting me, but now that he's fattened up and I've almost had him a year he is super docile and sweet. Totally different animal. And I agree with the smaller tub. Good luck!

In the tank is really better so that they don't get stressed by being handled before and after a meal.

You'll see a marked difference in posture and movement from when she smells the prey and hunting mode is on, versus just lying around in her enclosure. This is how I can tell for sure that my BP knows the difference between the tub opening and me reaching in for picking her up or spot cleaning, versus the tub opening and me sitting next to it warming the feeder. Whether it's by smell or that she's figured out the ritual, she really comes out of her hide poised like a predator when she figures out that it's feeding time. But without prey in the room, she's just a sweet little rope of cuteness :)

There is more than hope, there is the process of the correct husbandry and the knowledge that this behavior can and will be modified. :gj:

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Originally Posted by lafasta

Thanks for all of your quick responses everyone! We will definitely wait a week now to handle her again. I just peaked in at her in the dark and she's peaking her head out of the hide. I hope she tries to explore tonight.

As for her home for now, it's a 20 gallon long glass tank. It is heated with 2 infrared bulbs. One 75 on the hot side and a 50 the middle. The warm side is 88 - 90 and the cold is 81 with a hide on each side. There is a large water bowl in the Centre with paper towel for substrate for now. I live in Canada so the temps are quite cold. The uth was not cutting it as the air would only reach 72 at the highest with the heat pad at 115 °F! Way too hot for a uth. So I switched to lamps completely and the temps are good now. I have damp moss in each hide for humidity as the air is very dry here as well. Keeping humidity in the entire tank has been impossible. Would a small tub inside the tank be better until she's bigger?

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A UTH is not supposed to heat the air in the tank, its only purpose is to heat up the glass on the bottom of the tank to give your snake a basking spot. It won't do anything for the ambient air temperature.

All of your heat sources should be regulated by thermostats. If they aren't you can overheat and burn or kill your snake.

As you've discovered heat lamps suck all of the humidity out of a tank. Normally you would run just one and cover the rest of the screen top with foil to keep the heat and humidity inside the tank.

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We will have to feed her in a few days so to not handle her should I feed her in her tank or in a feeding tub? Before we got her she was fed in her tank but I wanted to feed her in the tub so she wouldn't associate put hands with food. But if we shouldn't be handling her would in her tank be better?

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Feed in the enclosure. You do not want your snake to associated leaving the enclosure with being fed, that is what will cause it to bite when it's out and being handled.

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h1...psp2koldrd.jpg

Ok great, from what I researched I thought feeding in a separate enclosure was the correct process so thank you for clarifying that. We will feed her in her tank now that I know.

I have ordered a thermostat which will be here Monday. So far the temps have been quite steady but better safe than sorry!

So if I place a smaller tub in the tank for now, how would I make a hot and cold side in such a small area? It seems like the whole tub would heat up, no?

I will also cover the screen with foil for the humidity.

When we first picked her as our new baby she was laying completely still in the breeders hand. She seemed very calm which is why I was so suprised by her 2 attempts to strike. I'm hoping after this week she will start to get comfortable again. I'll be trying my best to help her feel that way until then :)

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Originally Posted by lafasta

Ok great, from what I researched I thought feeding in a separate enclosure was the correct process so thank you for clarifying that. We will feed her in her tank now that I know.

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This is a common misconception on the almighty internet, heh. No worries. Some people still choose a separate enclosure because their snakes are finicky and refuse to eat in the tank, but this is pretty rare. Since you're starting out, I would suggest feeding in the tank. The whole "tank aggression" thing is a myth, and as someone else stated, the snake may begin to associate being removed from the tank with eating and therefore become more bitey!

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Originally Posted by lafasta

So if I place a smaller tub in the tank for now, how would I make a hot and cold side in such a small area? It seems like the whole tub would heat up, no?

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It does get a little more challenging if you're going to use lamps/bulbs. If you use a heat panel or UTH, the heat is in a more direct area, but DO NOT use one without your thermostat! (As you've already learned, they get way too hot). You don't really need a "cold" side in a BP tank--more just an ambient warmth. As long as your basking is near 90, you should be OK. What you do need to ensure is that you have a thermometer on both sides of the tank to ensure the whole thing doesn't overheat/underheat. The stickies are a great source of knowledge for husbandry. :)

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Originally Posted by lafasta

I will also cover the screen with foil for the humidity.

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I like saran wrap around the heat lamps/blubs. The aluminum foil may reflect the heat, especially if using lamps. Saran wrap works great, I tape it around the edges of the lid and it retains moisture wonderfully!

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Originally Posted by lafasta

When we first picked her as our new baby she was laying completely still in the breeders hand. She seemed very calm which is why I was so suprised by her 2 attempts to strike. I'm hoping after this week she will start to get comfortable again. I'll be trying my best to help her feel that way until then :)

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You're already well on your way by coming here! The folks here are very helpful and knowledgeable. I learn something every day! Good luck! :)

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

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I freakin love this drawing Pit! .... I get a chuckle everytime I see it (and I've seen it quite a bit lol), nothing bad it's direct and accurate, it is definitely something that I would do at like 6am in front of the computer over a mug of coffee with one of the kids crayons and printer paper handy :rofl::rofl::rofl:

To the OP,

I made a video last week in another thread about handling a snippy BP. You can see it here. http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...P-Handling-101

Hope it helps,

Dave

I keep my snakes in tubs not tanks so when I say tub, think tank.

Feed in the tub. The associating hands with food thing is mostly a myth. Snakes are intelligent and not likely to make that mistake. What can help is having feeding tongs. I use tongs to feed, and hands to do anything else. In a slightly tipsy moment I decided to use a clump of white paper towels to clean the side of the tub once with a ball in there.... No tongs, so it didn't try to go for the moving ball of white stuff.

Clutter that tank up with stuff if you can't switch to something smaller. The plastic vines from hobby lobby, or the pet store would work.

What are you using to measure the temps? If it's the plastic round stick to the glass things, they are very inaccurate.

There red is absolutely hope! Don't give up!!

And ive had luck with asking toddlers small children to play first. Shake shake Shake it out. Get them to run jump shimmy and Shake. Then red light! Embrace the age, don't fight it lol.

Wow, you've all been a giving me such great information! Thanks so much!!!!

I did forget to mention that I do already have a thermometer in the tank with the probe on the hot side floor. I also have an infrared laser thermometer that I can point at any location as well.

I'll go get a few more things to clutter up the tank floor. A couple paper towel rolls maybe and some plastic vines.

Thanks for the great drawing and video too! They are great!

I feel a bit better now. I hope she decides to come out of her hide a bit more once there's more places to hide.

I wish snakes could know how much we really love them, lol.



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Just curious as well, has anyone here ever had a snappy baby turn out to be a calm non-snappy adult? I know each snake has their own personality, but just wondering how often the snappiness is grown out of.

Thanks again all! You've made me feel a lot better and more confident already :)

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Originally Posted by lafasta

Just curious as well, has anyone here ever had a snappy baby turn out to be a calm non-snappy adult? I know each snake has their own personality, but just wondering how often the snappiness is grown out of.

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Yes most do grow out of it eventually with time and patient handling.

Also remember if the snake does bite you, don't put it away immediately as you will be rewarding it for striking.

Finally, while ball pythons are often recommended for new snake keepers because they are docile, 1) that usually applies to older, settled critters, not to defensive babies, and 2) if their husbandry isn't on point they stop eating or can get sick easily. So I don't recommend them for someone who has never had a snake before.

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Originally Posted by lafasta

Just curious as well, has anyone here ever had a snappy baby turn out to be a calm non-snappy adult? I know each snake has their own personality, but just wondering how often the snappiness is grown out of.

Thanks again all! You've made me feel a lot better and more confident already :)

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Yes, like I said. Mine was very snappy. Whenever I pulled him out I'd get bit about 3 or 4 times and that's not mentioning all the other times he tried to bite. I gave him a lot of alone time before I started handling him and he may not be an adult now but he's a good four times bigger than when I got him and he is the sweetest now. It was a lot of patience, keeping his husbandry just right, and fattening him up.
And if she does bite, don't react by putting her back into her enclosure, she will learn rather quickly that all she has to do is bite you to be left alone. If she tags you just act like it didn't phase you. Especially since it doesn't hurt. She'll realize that trying to intimidate and bite you does nothing.

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Originally Posted by Tash

Yes, like I said. Mine was very snappy. Whenever I pulled him out I'd get bit about 3 or 4 times and that's not mentioning all the other times he tried to bite. I gave him a lot of alone time before I started handling him and he may not be an adult now but he's a good four times bigger than when I got him and he is the sweetest now. It was a lot of patience, keeping his husbandry just right, and fattening him up.
And if she does bite, don't react by putting her back into her enclosure, she will learn rather quickly that all she has to do is bite you to be left alone. If she tags you just act like it didn't phase you. Especially since it doesn't hurt. She'll realize that trying to intimidate and bite you does nothing.

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Well hopefully our story ends like yours :) Maybe with a few less bites, lol.
I reached in today to fill up her water bowl and she stayed very still between her hide and wall. No snapping, but I stayed away from where she was hiding.

My daughter and I spent the morning making popcicle stick houses for her new hides. We'll put a couple in and see if she checks them out. We'll take a drive over to the nearest craft store to get some plastic vines today too.

And I thought you might all like to know the name my daughter picked for her:

Snazzy Snake-a-bella [emoji1]

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welcome to BP ownership and the forum. :)

everyone here are has provided great info and tips.

did your baby BP miss when it struck? if it did, i think it's important to note that there's an almost certainty that u will be bitten at some point. it's an animal, it has a mouth, it happens. just check out this thread: http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...en-bit-by-a-BP. (i have pix on the last page of a bite.) the good thing is that BP bites don't really hurt esp. one from a baby. it hurts less than a papercut.

anyway i just wanted to prepare u for that and how to have the talk with your daughter when it happens. just follow all the info and advice provided in this thread and bites will be minimal.

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Originally Posted by AKA Dave

To the OP,

I made a video last week in another thread about handling a snippy BP. You can see it here. http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...P-Handling-101

Hope it helps,

Dave

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AKA Dave, that video was great! I think with time I'll get more and more confident with our girl and hopefully she will too. Thank you so much for giving me that link.

So after we give her some time and begin handling her, if she keeps trying to strike should we just keep at it until she eventually realizes we won't hurt her? Also, how often should we handle her? I've read conflicting info on this. I've ready daily, weekly, multiple times a day even. I don't want to stress her out more by over or under handling her.

Thanks again for your help! I'm going to re-watch your video again :)

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

You have to remember a hatchling thinks everything it trying to kill and eat it. :rofl::rofl::rofl:

Most will calm with time, though I do have a large male that doesn't trust me and I don't trust him.
As already mentioned, leave it alone for about a week.
Also double check your husbandry to make sure its comfortable.
What temperatures are you heating to and what are you using to heat the enclosure?

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How to you deal with, handle and maintain, a snake you do not trust ? I am curious because I am not to trusting of my new Bp.

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Originally Posted by jimmysmom

How to you deal with, handle and maintain, a snake you do not trust ? I am curious because I am not to trusting of my new Bp.

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http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h1...ps4kcc65vv.jpg
quickly :rofl::rofl:

i experience my first BP bite last night. Ironically it was to my girlfriend.

She was terrify of snakes before but have been slowly coming around ever since she meet me. Work up the courage to hold my baby male only few months ago. I guess the snake can sense fear because he never looked comfortable on her hands, and even pee on her once. Last night though i thought was a clear feeding response. He tense up when i pick him up, and i put him on my gf's hand he immediately lunged for her pinky and started to coil. I pulled him off immediately and he let go.

Interesting cause I always thought food response bites usually happens inside the cage.

Good signs though i think, this baby boy is not a problem eater at all

Hi everyone! It's been about 2 months since my last post about our snappy normal girl. I'm super happy to report that things have been going great! I kept all of your helpful advice in mind and with calm daily handling (except for after feeding and while shedding), she has become a polite little lady! She hasn't snapped since and she seems to even like exploring around my arms while out. I couldn't be happier. Just goes to show you what a little patience and time can do. I was even able to snap a few pics for you!

I just wanted to day thanks so much to everyone for all your help and advice!

Here she is!!!

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Gorgeous girl! Looks like you did a great job working with her. They're definitely worth a little time and patience.

Nice pictures! She is very pretty. I'm glad she has mellowed out for you :)