Egg Washing?

I ran across this post today on FaceBook about washing and disinfecting eggs before putting them in the incubator. While I had heard of washing off the mother (to remove the scent of the eggs, encouraging to go back on feed), I hadn't heard of washing the eggs and was wondering if some experienced breeders would like to comment on this and post if they do this as well.

Gourmet Rodent - Egg Washing

I do not wash eggs. I do not touch them except to weigh them before they go into the incubator and to put them in. and I wear gloves wile doing this.
I want as little contact with them as I can have to reduce the chances that they could catch anything from me

Never have and I can't think of any breeder I know ever doing so. Usually eggs mold if they go bad however even if one or two eggs go bad and mold the mold will not affect healthy eggs.

That's going through a lot of trouble for something others have done for decades without doing so IMO

Sent from my SM-T320 using Tapatalk

Never heard of that before. I do try to remove as much of the bedding from the eggs to try to prevent mold in the box. I do it gently and a little bit is no big deal. I do give mom a bath in luke warm water though. I also give her tub a good wash. For the most part, they go back to feed within a couple days.

I actually thought this might do more harm than good because egg shells and membranes are not impermeable. Wouldn't dipping them in chemicals allow some of that chemical to pass through?

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk

I believe that would be true.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SmoothScales

I actually thought this might do more harm than good because egg shells and membranes are not impermeable. Wouldn't dipping them in chemicals allow some of that chemical to pass through?

---

Same reason I don't buy chicken eggs either LoL

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SmoothScales

Gourmet Rodent - Egg Washing

---

It pays to consider the source....;)

I've heard of this as a way of treating turtle eggs as a way to make sure they don't have salmonella, I can't imagine it actually working and I don't see any reason to do this with ball python eggs. I think it would cause more harm then good.


Hmmm, wasn't there a frozen rodent dealer that was sued several years ago for selling mice with salmonella? Who was that?

I think washing ball python eggs is not only unnecessary but dangerous and risky to egg development. Everything we have been taught as breeders is to make sure the eggs don't get wet! I have to think that eggs laid straight out the females birth canal is essentially aseptically clean and devoid of contamination until they hit the substrate. So any washing would be detrimental to egg integrity and health. :colbert:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Slim

It pays to consider the source....;)

---

They are actually one of the biggest facility and reptile breeder in the country (not obvious by the name I know), they are the one providing big pet store chains with their animals.

Still does not mean I am gonna wash my eggs though ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deborah

They are actually one of the biggest facility and reptile breeder in the country (not obvious by the name I know), they are the one providing big pet store chains with their animals.

---

Yes Ma'am, that was kinda' my point. :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SmoothScales

I actually thought this might do more harm than good because egg shells and membranes are not impermeable. Wouldn't dipping them in chemicals allow some of that chemical to pass through?

---

As soon as I seen "egg washing" I knew what you were talking about...lol
It does not seem to be a healthy thing to do even at 10% bleach. Even if someone thought it was a good idea to clean them, why use such a harsh chemical??? Baking soda prevents mold and is animal friendly.
I don't use any harsh chems in the snake room at all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deborah

They are actually one of the biggest facility and reptile breeder in the country (not obvious by the name I know), they are the one providing big pet store chains with their animals.

Still does not mean I am gonna wash my eggs though ;)

---

Second largest last I heard. This was the oddest thing I've heard about them so far and they posted it...

Saw this when scrolling through my timeline. Still have zero interest in doing this, but thought I would leave it here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3uOuNl5OQoU

OMG! So I guess everything we know about ball python eggs has come full circle? Is this business (his) really serious? He never mentioned anything about water temperatures in any way , shape , or form. Did I miss something? Very hard to believe his hatch rate is unchanged. First , clean the eggs off with clear water. Then soak the eggs in bleach solution. Thirdly wash the eggs in Bacquacil. Then rinse the eggs? Hey, what? What temperature is the water at these three or four stations. 10 minute soaking of the eggs in diluted, cold or unregulated water temps? IDK. Sounds borderline cruel to me but........ :colbert:.... Not for me right now. More studies and research for me and most , I believe. Air dry????????????? At what temperature?????????????

the spray at the end with some tough-actin' Tinactin athlete's foot spray was a nice touch after all that careful egg washing.

Edit: i can't comment too harsh or too much as i have zero breeding experience right now but those guys made the comment they have seen no changes/improvements/increase/drops in hatch numbers since they started egg washing, so why go through the trouble?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Albert Clark

OMG! So I guess everything we know about ball python eggs has come full circle? Is this business (his) really serious? He never mentioned anything about water temperatures in any way , shape , or form. Did I miss something? Very hard to believe his hatch rate is unchanged. First , clean the eggs off with clear water. Then soak the eggs in bleach solution. Thirdly wash the eggs in Bacquacil. Then rinse the eggs? Hey, what? What temperature is the water at these three or four stations. 10 minute soaking of the eggs in diluted, cold or unregulated water temps? IDK. Sounds borderline cruel to me but........ :colbert:.... Not for me right now. More studies and research for me and most , I believe. Air dry????????????? At what temperature?????????????

---

It is his... The 5 buildings are heated to temps for the species housed (1 for rats, 1 for colubrids, 1 for lizards, 1 for bp's, and 1 for humans...lol). I have zero interest in doing this but have bought a few animal from there that have been great so far.

They have been doing it or about a year with no negative effects................ Hope for more people to do this to better the hobby........


I would want to think that I would do more and longer research BEFORE putting my name on something like this and trying to push it on a community that has been doing "whatever" a lot longer than I have been there.
For anyone that wants to try something new, cool more power to them.
Personally I would not gamble my clutches and don't see a need either.

I just don't understand the need, they seem to be searching for the solution to a problem that doesn't exist. WHY are they doing this????

I'm betting it has something to do with soothing some potential government regulators fears about a non-existent salmonella problem. in which case, how long before this becomes the de rigueur standard for anybody who wants to sell reptiles to the public? I have to say I am NOT in favor.

I am only in my first breeding season and I am still waiting for my first clutch, which should be layed around 03-18.

So all I can say is; If people have been doing it like the most have for years with good results and 1 person changes something with no massive change in outcome, why go through all the extra work?

If it works for him, great! Am I gonna try it?

No! or at least not till it is proven it really works.

They're just washing away any natural protections nature has developed against intruding bacteria making the eggs more vulnerable. They aren't changing anything that's already inside the eggs. All they're doing is making it easier for bacteria to penetrate from the outside. Still scratching my head over this one.

The bleach has me...... Makes me think about eater eggs.
They get "washed" when you boil them.
Then you soak them in food coloring to dye them the color you want.
Now think about what the egg white looks like after you shell the egg. :rofl::rofl:

I doubt a reptile egg is less porous than a chicken egg.

I am all about keeping it simple I guess not everyone is, I never washed any egg whether it's geckos or snakes and I do not believe washing them would add anything. If an egg is not meant to be it will die and start molding that is simple as that and for those that wonder the eggs surrendering it will not be affected if they are healthy.

I am glad it works for them and their operation if they want to complicate things its fine by me, what worries me is seeing a surge of new inexperienced breeders deciding to do the same because one of the biggest breeder in the country does it, and do it wrong and kill their eggs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deborah

I am all about keeping it simple I guess not everyone is, I never washed any egg whether it's geckos or snakes and I do not believe washing them would add anything. If an egg is not meant to be it will die and start molding that is simple as that and for those that wonder the eggs surrendering it will not be affected if they are healthy.

I am glad it works for them and their operation if they want to complicate things its fine by me, what worries me is seeing a surge of new inexperienced breeders deciding to do the same because one of the biggest breeder in the country does it, and do it wrong and kill their eggs.

---

Which is a big part of why I brought it up here when I originally saw it on FB. It seemed a whole lot of unnecessary to me - especially since egg shell isn't impermeable, so I would suspect the chemicals used could also cross the shell and membrane barrier. I wanted input from more experienced breeders as to their thoughts on it as well, as I had never heard of it before. I'm hoping in the search for information, other new people like myself will run across this thread and take into account the experienced advice within before dumping their eggs into a bucket of water. :P

i see this as kinda like the industrialization of breeding. just like with food processing - it's on scale, additives/preservatives, chemicals are added for a "better product" and to better shelf life (or in the case attempt to increase/stabilize hatch rate). we'll see over time who else adopts this method and who decides to stay organic.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MarkS

Hmmm, wasn't there a frozen rodent dealer that was sued several years ago for selling mice with salmonella? Who was that?

---

That was Arctic Mice.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Albert Clark

OMG! So I guess everything we know about ball python eggs has come full circle? Is this business (his) really serious? He never mentioned anything about water temperatures in any way , shape , or form. Did I miss something? Very hard to believe his hatch rate is unchanged. First , clean the eggs off with clear water. Then soak the eggs in bleach solution. Thirdly wash the eggs in Bacquacil. Then rinse the eggs? Hey, what? What temperature is the water at these three or four stations. 10 minute soaking of the eggs in diluted, cold or unregulated water temps? IDK. Sounds borderline cruel to me but........ :colbert:.... Not for me right now. More studies and research for me and most , I believe. Air dry????????????? At what temperature?????????????

---

He really didn't give a great guide how to do it on his video, but I'd imagine his building is like most big snake breeders where the room is temperature controlled so as long as that water sits for a little bit I'm sure it's right there at room temp. I'd worry more about the air drying since evaporation will drop their temp a little from ambient.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ax01

Edit: i can't comment too harsh or too much as i have zero breeding experience right now but those guys made the comment they have seen no changes/improvements/increase/drops in hatch numbers since they started egg washing, so why go through the trouble?

---

Did they say there's been no increase/improvements though? I watched the video but I wasn't paying 100% attention to it, I caught the part where he said it hasn't negatively affected hatch rates and that was it. I doubt this prevented any eggs from dying but I don't think he said that it had a net zero effect. I imagine there has to be some pro to it that they see for them to warrant the time and hassle of this, the question is what evidence they have that this does something and if it's statistically or scientifically sound.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

They have been doing it or about a year with no negative effects................ Hope for more people to do this to better the hobby........


I would want to think that I would do more and longer research BEFORE putting my name on something like this and trying to push it on a community that has been doing "whatever" a lot longer than I have been there.
For anyone that wants to try something new, cool more power to them.
Personally I would not gamble my clutches and don't see a need either.

---

That first part was just so weird to me. They're still pretty vague about what it prevents/helps. They stated salmonella, but that's not really a risk that people have or deal with.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ARBallMorphs

I am only in my first breeding season and I am still waiting for my first clutch, which should be layed around 03-18.

So all I can say is; If people have been doing it like the most have for years with good results and 1 person changes something with no massive change in outcome, why go through all the extra work?

If it works for him, great! Am I gonna try it?

No! or at least not till it is proven it really works.

---

I won't do it either but I love when people do stuff like this, because all of us are sitting here thinking it's a waste, but there are a lot of times that people ignore methods that work. Not that they don't have good reason not to do them themselves, but it helps to keep an open mind to there being a better way to do things. And you say why do anything if there's no massive change, it's not like this is a lot of work. If they released their clutch records and showed a reduction of eggs going bad during incubation by 5%, that'd be interesting. If they released their clutch records for the next 5 years and that trend was consistent, then I'd probably start doing this myself (especially on the exciting clutches). I could easily imagine an expensive clutch having one egg go bad, I'd be kicking myself if I could have done something that could increase the chance of every egg surviving.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ax01

i see this as kinda like the industrialization of breeding. just like with food processing - it's on scale, additives/preservatives, chemicals are added for a "better product" and to better shelf life (or in the case attempt to increase/stabilize hatch rate). we'll see over time who else adopts this method and who decides to stay organic.

---

Or maybe it's just something that is helpful to them. I've driven past their facility before and it's a lot of space, if that other person is right and they have a building for each species then that's a lot of rats and mice alongside of a bunch of other stuff. So in those cases maybe even a small chance of salmonella would be catastrophic for them. I doubt it's worth it but I'm keeping an open mind.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bks2100

if that other person is right and they have a building for each species then that's a lot of rats and mice alongside of a bunch of other stuff. So in those cases maybe even a small chance of salmonella would be catastrophic for them. I doubt it's worth it but I'm keeping an open mind.

---

It is. I had a long talk with a previous sales manager about their facility who allowed me to step inside briefly. It's pretty amazing to someone that only has 40 snakes. lol They also employ around 100 people, so maybe they are trying to protect them?

The only eggs i have ever heard of washing with a special disinfectant are fowl eggs. I used to do this when i filled my incubator with chicken or duck eggs i wished to hatch. This is done to these eggs because the bacteria from the nests can cause the lose of chicks. The disinfectant is only for use for fowl. Maybe the artical you read was written by someone who is used to raising fowl.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Viol8r

It is. I had a long talk with a previous sales manager about their facility who allowed me to step inside briefly. It's pretty amazing to someone that only has 40 snakes. lol They also employ around 100 people, so maybe they are trying to protect them?

---

Yea I feel like there might be some other reason that they do it that wouldn't really apply to many others. Like with the number of people and animals it starts to become an issue? Or like someone at the top of this page said that it just removes all bacteria (beneficial and harmful both), but maybe they control their incubator to the point where only a small group has access or are allowed in there, so beneficial bacteria don't have a lot to protect against anyway.

Maybe you guys that have a good amount of experience breeding tell me something, about how often do eggs go bad, and how often do hatchlings have issues where they fail to thrive due to unknown reasons (ie not kinks, twisting, etc)?

I've never washed eggs before but I use f10 to disinfect my enclosures and the instructions claim its safe to use on eggs. I still won't try it though never had a problem not washing eggs, keep in mind I'm not the most experienced guy here just posting what I've read.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bks2100

Maybe you guys that have a good amount of experience breeding tell me something, about how often do eggs go bad, and how often do hatchlings have issues where they fail to thrive due to unknown reasons (ie not kinks, twisting, etc)?

---

It happens but it comes down to the fact that not all life are meant to be, from poor veins to hatchlings dying during incubation we all experience it (just like we experience slugs as well) however there is no miracle wash that can prevent and save something that is not meant to be.

If mold and bacteria were such an issue people would report entire clutches lost to said issue and many breeders would do what they do.

You can lose an egg or two in a clutch and when it happen it does not mean other eggs will perish because of mold or bacteria and failure to wash them.

Here is an example 2 eggs gone bad within a few days of incubation, both had poor vein structure so it was no surprise, this picture is taken at day 56 of incubation, as you can see both have rotten yet the other eggs are totally unaffected by the mold and decay and all hatchlings emerged healthy.

http://i954.photobucket.com/albums/a...ggsGoneBad.jpg

So sure you can bath eggs but I can tell you that most breeders who do that for a living producing hundreds or thousands of animals do not do so. While it might work great for them with the number of inexperienced people starting to breed each year that is not something I would recommend. New people have a tendency to emulate others based on what they see or read thinking if so and so does it so can I. They try to breed small females / males because some do too and they will probably give this a try as well and because of their like of experience it will likely go wrong.

I have experience and I would not even consider washing my eggs, because to be honest I am not seeing any benefit from it. Now if they start posting official data based on a few years of using this procedure I guess people may rethink the subject, until than it's one unnecessary step .

Now wiping down an egg and using athlete foot powder or elmer glue because an egg is starting to mold because it got too wet is another issue and always worth the shot.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by blue roses

The only eggs i have ever heard of washing with a special disinfectant are fowl eggs. I used to do this when i filled my incubator with chicken or duck eggs i wished to hatch. This is done to these eggs because the bacteria from the nests can cause the lose of chicks. The disinfectant is only for use for fowl. Maybe the artical you read was written by someone who is used to raising fowl.

---

A quick glance at the linked article - or the rest if this thread - would show you that we are in fact discussing BP eggs and in no way have fowl been mentioned.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SmoothScales

A quick glance at the linked article - or the rest if this thread - would show you that we are in fact discussing BP eggs and in no way have fowl been mentioned.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk

---

I believe Blue Roses was saying fowl eggs are the only ones he had ever heard of being washed, and thought that may be the reason the owner of Gourmet Rodent had raised fowl in the past and brought egg washing from the fowl to the bp's...

I don't know if he has ever messed with fowl before, but I know he worked for the previous owners before buying it from them. My understanding was that they had bp's back then as well, and this egg washing is a fairly new thing for them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Viol8r

My understanding was that they had bp's back then as well, and this egg washing is a fairly new thing for them.

---

It's mentioned in the video that they've been egg washing for about a year.



Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SmoothScales

It's mentioned in the video that they've been egg washing for about a year.



Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk

---

Yeah, that's fairly new.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by StillBP

I do not wash eggs. I do not touch them except to weigh them before they go into the incubator and to put them in.

---

You do not touch them,but you touch them.
http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/s...aughing025.gif