How to tell if you have a sub Saharan ball python?

Hi I have 1 female ball python that's just bigger then every other I've owned and ive had her since she was 2 months old I got her and a male sibling both 100% het for albino but the female was alot bigger then the male when I got them but now at 23 months old she's 2700 grams and 4.5 ft maybe a little longer

Here is a pic when I first got them their 2 months old in this picture and the female is on the left male is on the right and as you can tell she's always been big and they're siblings
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...cc0ec50822.jpg

And them today he is very badly stuck in shed he has been in a wet pillow case 3 times I've used the reptile shedding aid and ive had him in a damp rack which sorta has been helping but it's a bad one
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...40eb1cb2dd.jpg

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While 2700 grams at almost two years old is outstanding growth, I've seen some females at 3000 grams in the same amount of time. What was the pairing that produced her? And if she's a sub Saharan, wouldn't it stand to reason that he would be large for a male at this point? :confusd:

I heard that not all from the same clutch would be sub Saharans but idk if that's true or not and idk what the pairing was I think it was albino to het albino but I've fed her normally she was on medium rats up until 2 months ago and their was a point last year she went through 5 shed in 2 months it was crazy I thought something was wrong

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She actually looks over weight to me.

She's not though when you pick her up she looks perfect for her size just need to get a picture of her streched out and not curled but since I've been breeding her I've only handled when cleaning her cage

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Technically all ball pythons are sub Saharan being that they are found mainly in an area that is below the sahara. What you are referring to I believe is the Volta region, where larger than average ball pythons are sometimes found. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but this is my understanding. There is a picture of Africa depicting this but I have to find it again.

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/16/02...c779bdc4bf.jpg

The area in red is where ball pythons are found, all below the sahara

Yea volta is what I'm talking about but in what I was reading people said sub Saharan and volta are the same but that's what I was wondering if she's volta because the rapid growth with normal feedings the male sibling ate the same for along time just until a few months back when I started feeding her large instead of medium because of breeding

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Also I seen the picture of the range if that's what your talking about but I'm just wondering if she is a volta and how can I tell if she is?

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http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/16/02...bd702a66dd.jpg

The red pin is Ghana, and where the Volta region is.

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Originally Posted by dylanjwicklund

Yea volta is what I'm talking about but in what I was reading people said sub Saharan and volta are the same but that's what I was wondering if she's volta because the rapid growth with normal feedings the male sibling ate the same for along time just until a few months back when I started feeding her large instead of medium because of breeding

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People make that mistake often. Sub saharan just means below the sahara, while Volta is in fact sub Saharan, it is a very small area compared to the rest of the continent. I think the only way you'll be able to tell is in the long run. When the snake gets a few years old and it seems very heavy, and longer than what might be considered "average", then you might have a good idea if it is in fact from that area or not

Yea I know that lol just wondering how to tell if she is one

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by SKO

People make that mistake often. Sub saharan just means below the sahara, while Volta is in fact sub Saharan, it is a very small area compared to the rest of the continent. I think the only way you'll be able to tell is in the long run. When the snake gets a few years old and it seems very heavy, and longer than what might be considered "average", then you might have a good idea if it is in fact from that area or not

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Thnx that's what I was looking for :)

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Originally Posted by lunasjy

She actually looks over weight to me.

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I'm rather leaning toward this assessment as well. This snake is very round and has obvious fat rolls. The head is tiny compared the rest of her body and her spine looks sunken. You have a fat snake.

The volta ball pythons don't just weigh a lot, they're proportionately larger. If you look at some videos of specimens in people's collections when they're in the same frame as the person you will see the snake is quite large. It's especially noticeable if you compare the head to that of a normal ball python.

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Originally Posted by Lizardlicks

I'm rather leaning toward this assessment as well. This snake is very round and has obvious fat rolls. The head is tiny compared the rest of her body and her spine looks sunken. You have a fat snake.

The volta ball pythons don't just weigh a lot, they're proportionately larger. If you look at some videos of specimens in people's collections when they're in the same frame as the person you will see the snake is quite large. It's especially noticeable if you compare the head to that of a normal ball python.

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Omg lol your not taking into consideration she is most likely gravid this is why she looks like that

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When she wasn't she was a very nice build and it made her look way longer then she really was

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Yea and if I got her to strech out next to me I'm 6 ft and got a picture she isn't fat off

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Far

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Yea and the head thing u mentioned is what first drew me to think she was because it's different then all my others all mine look kind triangle while hers gets round

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Okay. Here is a snake that is gravid. (Pic from wiki commons)

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...all_Python.jpg

She is wider, yes, but she's still has a defined spine and no fat rolls when she coils, just some normal wrinkles.

Here is a pic of a snake who is obese which I yoinked from from wheremyscalesslither's post about recognizing obesity in ball pythons, which you should probably read. (They grabbed it from a facebook group post but did not credit the source so as not to direct unwanted attention at the owner of the snake).

http://40.media.tumblr.com/d5bea1c34...3k3o1_1280.jpg

Observe the sunken spine and fat rolls. Now go look at your snake again. Eggs do not cause those kinds of rolls. In fact, they're large, solid objects inside the female's body and make tightly coiling kind of hard/uncomfortable. She could very well be also gravid, but she is definitely a bit on the chunky monkey side.

Also, taking a third look at your pic, it looks like your male might be having a bad shed?

No one wants to admit that they have an over weight snake, but it is quite common in the hobby to over feed and not give the snakes the exercise they need.

I can even show a front fat/back gravid female.

http://s6.postimg.org/r090pkioh/image.jpg


About the Volta balls. The genetics play in role about the size, but not just the weight, the length is important too. I have a 5 yo female mojave who weights almost 4400g, but not fat at all. She's huge in every way, and I believe with years passing, she'll be close to the 6 kg. She's definitely not from the Volta region.

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Originally Posted by Lizardlicks

Okay. Here is a snake that is gravid. (Pic from wiki commons)

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...all_Python.jpg

She is wider, yes, but she's still has a defined spine and no fat rolls when she coils, just some normal wrinkles.

Here is a pic of a snake who is obese which I yoinked from from wheremyscalesslither's post about recognizing obesity in ball pythons, which you should probably read. (They grabbed it from a facebook group post but did not credit the source so as not to direct unwanted attention at the owner of the snake).

http://40.media.tumblr.com/d5bea1c34...3k3o1_1280.jpg

Observe the sunken spine and fat rolls. Now go look at your snake again. Eggs do not cause those kinds of rolls. In fact, they're large, solid objects inside the female's body and make tightly coiling kind of hard/uncomfortable. She could very well be also gravid, but she is definitely a bit on the chunky monkey side.

Also, taking a third look at your pic, it looks like your male might be having a bad shed?

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Ok for one I don't get how she can be over weight like your saying if I never fed her the right sized rats for the longest time I kept her on mediums as it didn't make her look fat and she's only ever been fed once a week aswell and the fact she put on about 1000 grams since I started breeding her I'm not worried about obesity she's going to be super skinny after she drops eggs I know my snakes you don't but thanks for acuessing me of over feeding

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lizardlicks

Okay. Here is a snake that is gravid. (Pic from wiki commons)

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...all_Python.jpg

She is wider, yes, but she's still has a defined spine and no fat rolls when she coils, just some normal wrinkles.

Here is a pic of a snake who is obese which I yoinked from from wheremyscalesslither's post about recognizing obesity in ball pythons, which you should probably read. (They grabbed it from a facebook group post but did not credit the source so as not to direct unwanted attention at the owner of the snake).

http://40.media.tumblr.com/d5bea1c34...3k3o1_1280.jpg

Observe the sunken spine and fat rolls. Now go look at your snake again. Eggs do not cause those kinds of rolls. In fact, they're large, solid objects inside the female's body and make tightly coiling kind of hard/uncomfortable. She could very well be also gravid, but she is definitely a bit on the chunky monkey side.

Also, taking a third look at your pic, it looks like your male might be having a bad shed?

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Also I did say that he was in a bad shed been in a pillow case 3 times been sprayed with reptile shed aid and has been in a damp rack lol I hate when I address the problems first because people don't read

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lizardlicks

Okay. Here is a snake that is gravid. (Pic from wiki commons)

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...all_Python.jpg

She is wider, yes, but she's still has a defined spine and no fat rolls when she coils, just some normal wrinkles.

Here is a pic of a snake who is obese which I yoinked from from wheremyscalesslither's post about recognizing obesity in ball pythons, which you should probably read. (They grabbed it from a facebook group post but did not credit the source so as not to direct unwanted attention at the owner of the snake).

http://40.media.tumblr.com/d5bea1c34...3k3o1_1280.jpg

Observe the sunken spine and fat rolls. Now go look at your snake again. Eggs do not cause those kinds of rolls. In fact, they're large, solid objects inside the female's body and make tightly coiling kind of hard/uncomfortable. She could very well be also gravid, but she is definitely a bit on the chunky monkey side.

Also, taking a third look at your pic, it looks like your male might be having a bad shed?

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Also those are just Internet pics every snake is different and why not post ur gravid snakes have u not ever had a gravid snake?

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No I haven't because I'm growing my snakes out slowly. Heck I know for a fact that if I let Strudel go as hard as she wanted on her rats she'd hit breeding size in another couple of months, the kid is a garbage disposal, but that isn't healthy for her. However, you can literally google "gravid ball python" and "obese ball python" and get tons of examples of both. I have looked at both for nearly two years, long before I even got my first snake because I want to do things right the first time. Also, if you're actually feeding your girl on medium rats, she should be going closer to every two weeks, not every week. An adult ball python can thrive quite well on a small rat once a week for the rest of it's life.

If you're having trouble on getting your husbandry to a point where it's consistent and your snakes are having that bad of shedding issues, you should be focused on fixing that, not producing more snakes. Everyone wants to jump into the breeding side super fast, but you need to take the time to be a keeper first, and a breeder second.

Balls can gain weight and size very quick, i only feed peach 1 small rat every week and shes gains noticible size with every feeding, can only imagine what weekly mediums would do to a balls growth. If an expierenced keeper is telling you something and backing it up with facts and examples its better to take the advice then argue against it

If there are 10 people in a room, and all ten disagree with you, it stands to reason that you should reevaluate your opinion.

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Originally Posted by dylanjwicklund

I hate when I address the problems first because people don't read

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Soooooo, you're saying that reading is fundamental, right?

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Originally Posted by dylanjwicklund

but thanks for acuessing me of over feeding

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It wasn't and accusation, it was an observation... Reading is fundamental, right? :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by dylanjwicklund

Also those are just Internet pics

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For real though... And here are some more Internet pics.... From your other thread about the same snake...

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Originally Posted by dylanjwicklund

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...92d138b36b.jpg

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...67b494ff5d.jpg

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That Sir, is a fat snake. Gravid or not, she is over weight.

Here is one held by one of my friends

Notice the size of the head, this girl was well over 5000 grams

http://i954.photobucket.com/albums/a...ERD/BigWC1.jpg

http://i954.photobucket.com/albums/a...ERD/BigWC2.jpg

You can very well have a large individual without this individual being a volta/sub saharan , I do, every hold back from my original female het pied (who is 4000+ grams) gets big quick, usually tipping the scale at 1800 grams or so by 18 months.

Nice animal deb! That head! Now that's awesome.

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Originally Posted by Lizardlicks

An adult ball python can thrive quite well on a small rat once a week for the rest of it's life.

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I am feeding my sub-adult BP a small rat or large rat pup every two weeks. He's about four years old and still growing. I'm in no hurry to grow him out.

OP, what morph are your snakes? They look normal... are they hets?? It can be very hard to find homes for normal babies... I got my normal from a rescue. People dump them all the time. :-(

I believe op said they were het albino. So a chance for albino babies, but still likely to throw more normals as well.

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Originally Posted by Lizardlicks

No I haven't because I'm growing my snakes out slowly. Heck I know for a fact that if I let Strudel go as hard as she wanted on her rats she'd hit breeding size in another couple of months, the kid is a garbage disposal, but that isn't healthy for her. However, you can literally google "gravid ball python" and "obese ball python" and get tons of examples of both. I have looked at both for nearly two years, long before I even got my first snake because I want to do things right the first time. Also, if you're actually feeding your girl on medium rats, she should be going closer to every two weeks, not every week. An adult ball python can thrive quite well on a small rat once a week for the rest of it's life.

If you're having trouble on getting your husbandry to a point where it's consistent and your snakes are having that bad of shedding issues, you should be focused on fixing that, not producing more snakes. Everyone wants to jump into the breeding side super fast, but you need to take the time to be a keeper first, and a breeder second.

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Just stop reply before I loose on yoy I don't care your opinion anymore when all u have to say about my animal is it's fat and over fed when I feed them 1 time a weed something that doesn't strech out its perfect size for them and just because she's close to laying eggs doesn't make her obese she doesn't even lock with the male anymore and when you havent had your first clutch yet so I don't need your opinions when all snakes are different and do different things because I can't stand my care being questioned when you don't know what and when I fed her and how she has grown over the 2 years of owning her

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Ok don't reply if you have nothing nice to say about my snakes weight I wasn't asking about that I was asking if she is a volta I guess you want to just focus on 1 little detail like being fat I guess you all point out fat people in public too

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Just soo done with this all you guys get way off topic

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Like for 1 she eats medium rats 1 time a week when she should have been eat large and now that she is on large she should be on xl because larges don't do anything to her she still looks like she didn't eat and like I said before if I streched her out she would be almost as long as me and doesn't look fat at all but I guess u all think being full of eggs is fat so I guess any pregnant lady is fat? That's how you all are thinking and that's wrong

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So any other replys about her being fat I will not be nice because I don't go around saying anything about everybody else's snakes because I'm not that kind of person to just think that somethings not right from a picture? Because you all know how pictures can be if u believe every picture then u clearly believe the light green and purple ball pythons

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Actually us pointing out her big size is directly related to your question, you asked if she was a volta based on the fact that you thought she was pretty big for a ball python, we responded with the answers and explained why yours isnt a volta and just getting a little chubby, no one was bad mouthing you, your snakes or husbendry... If you cant handle criticism then you shouldn't be asking questions on the internet let alone a forum dedicated to the health and care of ball pythons, its not our job or responsibility to cater our replies to only what you wanna hear... If your gonna ask a question in a public forum then you better be prepared to deal with replies you dont wanna hear along with the ones your looking for otherwise you shouldnt bother starting the thread.

Like and she has over 10 eggs in her so I know she isn't fat sooooooooooooooo I'm just done with this I wanted to know about being volta

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No when ur just calling her obese and fat and unhealthy is not saying anything g about it being volta

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But I guess having over 10 eggs is just being fat and unhealthy

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Originally Posted by Hypancistrus

I am feeding my sub-adult BP a small rat or large rat pup every two weeks. He's about four years old and still growing. I'm in no hurry to grow him out.

OP, what morph are your snakes? They look normal... are they hets?? It can be very hard to find homes for normal babies... I got my normal from a rescue. People dump them all the time. :-(

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They are het for albino and I know but I seem to have no problem selling and finding homes for normals here most time it's older women buying it for their young sons

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Well if that worked some people should be blocked and can't reply anymore because I'm only getting mad waking up to see people calling my snake un healthy and fat when you have to see her in person and know what she eats amd how much weight was put on during breeding and how many eggs came up on the screen when I used ultrasound machine I know my animal you don't so please from now on don't comment if your not going to be nice because I do have bad anger problems that can't be helped and my reptiles are what I use for therapy

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Obviosuly your having problems actually understanding what your being told, your snake is being called possibly overweight because of the skin folds and the sunken spine, both of witch have nothing to do with her being pregnant, like you've been told already an adult ball pythong can live off of small rats for its life, your feeding mediums and larger according to your post on a weekly basis... Not one person has said your snake is "chubby" because shes gravid, your were told exactly why we thought what we did and were even given facts to back it up... If you dont like what we have to say no one is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to stay.

Who was making fun of your snake we simply told you what we saw and based on expierence and facts gave you an educated response that you took extreme offense to just because it wasnt what you wanted to hear, no keeper knows everything and we have people joining all the time making simple mistakes with care because of outdated or wrong information.... You as a keeper should be open to criticism from expierenced owned even if its not what you asked or want to hear and i appologize if i came off rude or offensive

And we are done, this thread is now locked while infractions are being handed.

A little reminder here this is a FAMILY FRIENDLY forum if you cannot discuss a subject without using foul language it is probably a sign that it is time to step away from the keyboard.