How's my setup + is she uncomfortable?

Hi guys! I have just set up my tank. Here are some details:

Tank base size: 2ft x 1ft
Substrate: newspaper at the bottom, 1 inch aspen shavings
Water bowl: about 5" x 5"

Preparation: all plastic plants, hide, and driftwood have been washed with a mild soap and water. When dried, I sprayed an anti-mite product (for the enclosure and not those sprayed directly on the BP) and let it sit for an entire day.

http://i1108.photobucket.com/albums/...ps3c4ygnlj.jpg

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http://i1108.photobucket.com/albums/...psh3rnoxsa.jpg

Her usual set up is just newspaper, a hide, and a water bowl. However, ever since the new setup, my BP has been active all the time. She can be found trying to escape through the wire mesh at the top even with all the new hiding spots.

Just wondering if this is a normal response to a "brand new environment" or is this something bad (eg. the aspen shavings are killing her, the new smells are killing her, etc)?

Please help!

And i forgot to add:

she doesnt go for the hide at the corner even though she has been using it before and its big enough for her.

i tried to pick her up to coax her head to enter the hide but she only stuck her head inside for a couple of seconds, and then made a u-turn.

she even hissed at me when i was holding her... immediately put her back.

Looks pretty! The covering of the sides is nice to give her more security. If that's just a screen/grate top then I can't imagine her humidity is at good levels, though. You want them to be at least 60%. A digital hydrometer is better at measuring than the highly inaccurate dial one. What are her hot side and cold side temps at, and what's her ambient temperature? And how are you measuring these temperatures? All of these aspects are very important.

An active BP can indicate a stressed BP. If this cage is bigger than her last that can stress her, or you could consider getting her another hide - one for the hot side and another for the cold side. The current hide she has has a big entrance, so it may not do too much to make her feel snug and secure. Usually aspen makes them feel a little more secure as they can burrow in it a bit. As far as mite prevention and using any chemicals - I can't help with that, I've thankfully never had to deal with mites and I just use newspaper and plastic hides.

I honestly think the tank may be too small. Also think it needs a second hide. right now she cant be warm and safe at the same time if thats what she want. Also like mentioned, humidity is likely low.

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Originally Posted by Galaxygirl

Looks pretty! The covering of the sides is nice to give her more security. If that's just a screen/grate top then I can't imagine her humidity is at good levels, though. You want them to be at least 60%. A digital hydrometer is better at measuring than the highly inaccurate dial one. What are her hot side and cold side temps at, and what's her ambient temperature? And how are you measuring these temperatures? All of these aspects are very important.

An active BP can indicate a stressed BP. If this cage is bigger than her last that can stress her, or you could consider getting her another hide - one for the hot side and another for the cold side. The current hide she has has a big entrance, so it may not do too much to make her feel snug and secure. Usually aspen makes them feel a little more secure as they can burrow in it a bit. As far as mite prevention and using any chemicals - I can't help with that, I've thankfully never had to deal with mites and I just use newspaper and plastic hides.

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Hey galaxygirl, temperature and humidity are no issues as I live in SE Asia where the temperature ranges from 26 to 32 degrees celcius (79 to 90 Fahrenheit), and humidity is mostly always about 74%. 😀

As such, I don't really need a hot and cold hide or UTH heat pads.

The tank is the same one which she was living in for the past few days though, although the hide I used was actually an overturned flower pot which she loves. Maybe I'll try changing the hide.

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Hey! Just some thoughts :)

You need a hide on the warm and cool side. Identical hides, preferably, and ones that are tight and snug like the black reptile basics hide. You can use something as simple as a tupperwear with a 'door' cut in it. If a bp is given two identical hides, they won't sacrifice their temperature regulation for the more comfortable hide.

You should cover the lid with something like tinfoil wrapped around cardboard to try and keep in more humidity. That, or go for a plexiglass lid.

How are you heating? UTH on a thermostat? Lights?

How are you measuring temps?

I dont see any heat source - or thermometers. How are you regulating heat? Or humidity? Mesh is constantly open then the heat will just escape?

Is there a heat source under the hide?

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Originally Posted by djstarfall

Hey galaxygirl, temperature and humidity are no issues as I live in SE Asia where the temperature ranges from 26 to 32 degrees celcius (79 to 90 Fahrenheit), and humidity is mostly always about 74%. 😀

As such, I don't really need a hot and cold hide or UTH heat pads.

The tank is the same one which she was living in for the past few days though, although the hide I used was actually an overturned flower pot which she loves. Maybe I'll try changing the hide.

Sent from my C6833 using Tapatalk

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This is not true and its pretty stupid to presume. Snakes need belly heat to help digest food and keep there blood and organs going, and a difference in temperature to thermoregulate. You need one side hotter then the other - not just "the rooms the right temperature" you have no clue of the humidity in the cage - just because your room is 74 means nothing. Heat removes Humidity... You need to rethink what you are setting up... She wont be happy without these things.

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Originally Posted by djstarfall

Hey galaxygirl, temperature and humidity are no issues as I live in SE Asia where the temperature ranges from 26 to 32 degrees celcius (79 to 90 Fahrenheit), and humidity is mostly always about 74%. ��

As such, I don't really need a hot and cold hide or UTH heat pads.

The tank is the same one which she was living in for the past few days though, although the hide I used was actually an overturned flower pot which she loves. Maybe I'll try changing the hide.

Sent from my C6833 using Tapatalk

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You keep her in a room that is that humid and that hot? Humidity and heat in Houston is high all the time, but indoors it is not. Our temps indoors we don't keep above 74, so unless you're incredibly acclimated or keep her in a separate room, I find it hard to imagine living in 80+ degree heat and high humidity.. If you have no way of measuring the temperatures and humidity in her enclosure it may be hard to regulate. But, if you've had her a for a long time and have never had a problem with her sheds, humidity is probably fine. As someone else suggested, I do not think her enclosure is too big. Ball Pythons live in cramped burrows and termite mounds, they just need enough room to regulate their temperature. I'd try putting her pot back in and see how her behaviour changes.

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Originally Posted by Galaxygirl

You keep her in a room that is that humid and that hot? Humidity and heat in Houston is high all the time, but indoors it is not. Our temps indoors we don't keep above 74, so unless you're incredibly acclimated or keep her in a separate room, I find it hard to imagine living in 80+ degree heat and high humidity.. If you have no way of measuring the temperatures and humidity in her enclosure it may be hard to regulate. But, if you've had her a for a long time and have never had a problem with her sheds, humidity is probably fine. As someone else suggested, I do not think her enclosure is too big. Ball Pythons live in cramped burrows and termite mounds, they just need enough room to regulate their temperature. I'd try putting her pot back in and see how her behaviour changes.

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Hey galaxygirl, I put her in the shaded patio where there's plenty of air flow and yes, it's really humid and warm here in SE Asia. Think "Thailand" and you'll get what I mean :)

She has shed once since gotten her 3 weeks ago. Perfect shed though. Been eating live without hesitation and also prekilled without even thinking twice!

She is a captive bred BP from a neighboring country so the weather conditions are exactly the same throughout her 7 month life.

On an update: I took your advice on the hide with large entrance and replaced it with the overturned flowerpot. She loves it! All is well :)

Sent from my C6833 using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by Nathaniel1989

This is not true and its pretty stupid to presume. Snakes need belly heat to help digest food and keep there blood and organs going, and a difference in temperature to thermoregulate. You need one side hotter then the other - not just "the rooms the right temperature" you have no clue of the humidity in the cage - just because your room is 74 means nothing. Heat removes Humidity... You need to rethink what you are setting up... She wont be happy without these things.

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Sorry to say this but you are not correct in this assumption. There are quite a few breeders who heat their rooms and not the racks at all. You also have to think of the people that use RHP (radiant heat panels) and back heat. Think of in the wild also. Ball pythons don't go out to a sunny rock to digest after they have eaten. They are nocturnal opportunistic animals. They go out at night when hungry, catch what they can, then go into a burrow or termite mound for the day and digest in their hides. Please do a bit more research before telling people "This is not true and its pretty stupid to presume"

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nathaniel1989

This is not true and its pretty stupid to presume. Snakes need belly heat to help digest food and keep there blood and organs going, and a difference in temperature to thermoregulate. You need one side hotter then the other - not just "the rooms the right temperature" you have no clue of the humidity in the cage - just because your room is 74 means nothing. Heat removes Humidity... You need to rethink what you are setting up... She wont be happy without these things.

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I would bet that not one productive conversation in the history of mankind has ever begun with calling the other person stupid. I personally am on this board because I have learned a lot and even when people disagree they are for the most part civil. We had quite a good discussion yesterday concerning hybrids. Not all of us agreed with each other however it was a civil conversation. I have learned in my life that you can learn something from anyone. It is probably best to not say anything if you cannot figure out a way to say it productively.

I didnt call anyone stupid - it was me saying the presumption was stupid - however - room heated racks still have heat mats - the room temp is ambient and its still measured, not just left to assumption - i wasnt meaning to be offensive, i am still learning also

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Originally Posted by Nathaniel1989

I didnt call anyone stupid - it was me saying the presumption was stupid - however - room heated racks still have heat mats - the room temp is ambient and its still measured, not just left to assumption - i wasnt meaning to be offensive, i am still learning also

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Glad to hear.

As it turns out I am also very interested in how feasible the OP's setup is in his environment. Maybe one of the mods can comment? I have always kept my rack heated. I live in South Florida and the temps and humidity here are generally pretty good for most of the year. It would definitely be cheaper and easier for me in my environment to regulate the entire room. Is it possible to run the room at about 90 and then drop to around 80 at night and supply no temp gradient in the tubs?

Heated rooms don't usually use a heat source on the tubs directly, that's why the entire room is heated. Thats like saying I still neat a heat pad when I have RHPs

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nathaniel1989

I didnt call anyone stupid - it was me saying the presumption was stupid - however - room heated racks still have heat mats - the room temp is ambient and its still measured, not just left to assumption - i wasnt meaning to be offensive, i am still learning also

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Well it is just how it came across I guess. Still "stupid" should not have been used when informing someone of a possible error. I have seen setups where breeders have provided whole room temperature on a thermostat without belly or back heat. This i agree is not left to assumption as you are now stating but does have a thermostat to control the temps. You also strongly imply that they NEED belly heat. This is not the case. There are many breeders and pet owners that use RHPs and Back heat. So your insistence in the previous comment about belly heat being a requirement is false. I did not state anything on the OPs setup just on the comment you made.

As far as the OP's set up goes. Yes I agree that there should be a thermostat setup with some type of heating element just in case temperatures do drop to keep temps stable. It would also be good to monitor temps and humidity going forward with a hygrometer and thermometer. Just my opinion.

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Originally Posted by ItsAllNew2Me!

As far as the OP's set up goes. Yes I agree that there should be a thermostat setup with some type of heating element just in case temperatures do drop to keep temps stable. It would also be good to monitor temps and humidity going forward with a hygrometer and thermometer. Just my opinion.

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Agreed. Even if your ambient temps are sufficient most of the time, they might drop to low levels. Really, a hot side should anywhere from 89-94f. Even just a lamp with bulb that's either red, blue, or black (or a CHE of course) on a dimmer switch would be a good idea to have setup on the cage, even if you don't need to use it all the time.

Maybe its just making myself over informed, Im from UK, and within 2weeks of starting to learn about Ball Pythons I got one. My rooms are cold so I need to regulate heat. I went out and bought a Oil Heater to keep the room at temp just for the ambient. Pretty much everything I read said Ball Pythons Needs belly heat and until you just stated otherwsie I had no reason not to believe it was important or "vital" saying that I didnt mean to press my point in a harsh way.

Again, Everything I read has said the too sides of the tank need a gradient, a noticeable one. Without a direct heat option or any thermometers how does the OP regulate this? Just because the room is warm enough?

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Originally Posted by Nathaniel1989

Maybe its just making myself over informed, Im from UK, and within 2weeks of starting to learn about Ball Pythons I got one. My rooms are cold so I need to regulate heat. I went out and bought a Oil Heater to keep the room at temp just for the ambient. Pretty much everything I read said Ball Pythons Needs belly heat and until you just stated otherwsie I had no reason not to believe it was important or "vital" saying that I didnt mean to press my point in a harsh way.

Again, Everything I read has said the too sides of the tank need a gradient, a noticeable one. Without a direct heat option or any thermometers how does the OP regulate this? Just because the room is warm enough?

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I understand where you are coming from i live in the northern U.S. and even in the hottest summer months i still need heat added to my rack. I also use belly heat. I also have a heat gradient as you were saying. I just wanted to state that there are other breeders and pet owners that utilize other means of heating and belly heat is not required nor in some cases are there a heat gradient and their animals are doing just fine. I do also agree that the OP does need a means to measure temps and humidity and have some type of heating setup to keep things stable, with the OP's temps I don't even want to talk about the need for cooling in case of a heat wave!! Thats all I was getting at. I also now understand you were not meaning to be harsh it was just how it came across. Glad you are doing your research and learning. Hope your new snake friend it doing great. All of mine keep me busy in the evenings after work lol. Happy herping!! :gj: