Working on a new App. Am I wasting my time?

Hey guys, I'm currently working on an app, it is semi slow going project as I work 10 hrs. a day at my day job. I'm thinking it's probably going to launch late this year. Is there that much interest in this, I was thinking of running a kickstarter to help me out, but didn’t know if I would get enough support. So here it goes…

The app would connect to a website where your data is stored kind of like iherp but in no way affiliated, and also much better.

I would make the App free but the kicker is I plan on a basic app (for free) and an advanced app at the cost of 1.99 (Maybe less but not more) to get access to the breeding tracker (among other things). both apps info would carry over to the website at no additional charge.

As a breeder myself and a programmer I feel I'm in a unique position to create something useful here.

the free app for tracking shed, eating, vet visits, weight, behavior, defecation, physical abnormality, growth photos etc. will be supported by an advertisement based system. The advertisement system will be small and only used to support back end operations, (servers, updates etc.)


"among other things"

The Pay app will not have advertisements.

I plan on making a secure marketplace with a payment system similar to Paypal with payment plan options to be set by seller (autopay, etc.). (Free app users will be able to buy from this market but not able to sell.)

The marketplace will allow you to post animals for sale, with the ability to allow potential buyers to see all info tracked on that animal since it was an egg (feeding, shedding, general husbandry, etc.) and also the parents (Where they came from, Issues such as “wobbles”, Husbandry, etc.). This will allow responsible breeders more free time as it will make e-mailing and phone communications unnecessary, as well as selling their animals faster. This will also eliminate irresponsible breeders as their animals would be unlikely to sell without the for mentioned information.

A small side note: Double het animals would be better tracked making them slightly easier to sell

- buy (no trade offers will be allowed here)
- sell
- trade
- the ability to offer less with a 1 click deny or accept for seller. I plan on making a back end minimum accepted amount so the seller will only receive this if the minimum is met. Otherwise the offer will be auto rejected on a delay so people would not be able to keep offering until the minimum is met, essentially "masking" the minimum.
- An auction type system where 1 click buy and bid system would be incorporated similar to e-bay

secure transaction loans (free app users will not be able to access this section)
- Create a new revenue stream for breeders that have snakes not involved in projects. As well as allow a cheaper way to work on new projects by smaller breeders. (genetic diversity people we neeeeeeed it)
- Requests for loaned animals
- post animals available for loan. A "rental fee" etc. may be set by loaner (i know rental fee sounds cold as we all love our animals but i couldn't think of another term at the moment)
- Deposits (set by lender and enforced by the site) to make it easier to lend a snake with less worry as well as protecting the buyer as the deposit is never in the hands of the lender it is held by 3rd party.
- the ability to view your loans status via the lendee's tracking (also the ability to charge fees for not appropriately updating the status of snakes that are loaned to you, pics if required etc., to be set by lender, and paid to the lender). The lender would be able to view this at any time.
- I have many ideas on this that are yet to be hashed out.

with the above 2 items there will most likely be some sort of % based payment to the site, as there would be no way to keep it going without a viable income stream. The % will be small such as 5 cents on the dollar or less

A genetic calculator that will allow you to look at what you can make with the animals you have, all animals, or the animals you have + the ones available on the marketplace/Loner market.

This will support tech support, server maintenance, customer service, banking fees, hosting fees, among many many other things people are unaware of on the backend without forcing us to charge subscription fees. All of this is still being hashed out.

I plan on canvasing the community to get input as to what people want what options they want to have etc., but I have many many ideas. And there is much much more I would like to do

All that being said…

the only way I will be able to get something going is by crowd funding however as I would need to cut my overtime down at work significantly and purchase more servers etc. I’m mainly trying to determine if I am wasting my time or not as I do not have much between work and my own breeding projects.
what do you all think do you think I would get enough support in a kick starter?

This is an expanded repost from a thread that was not the creator of.

I find this a good idea, but for now it seems to still be in brainstorming ? Making an app is "easy", you might want to study what other free apps have to offer and are lacking compared to paying ones.

I personnaly have absolutely no interest in a marketplace like the one you want to offer. It's just asking to get sammed and really not that much of a good idea especially if you want to start. Go slow, start with the tracking and add backups and exporting and it would already be way better then many ! If you only go with the app you will also save on all that server junk that you really will not need if you stay clear of money transfers ;)

Do only the tracking app for ios, android, windows, mac, linux, etc and I'll back you up 100% depending on the prices you give.
Add anything else and I'll be out and continue with the one I made for myself.

I like this idea but I have to agree with no marketplace. It would bog down the system, could lead to many issues. Plus I would never back a marketplace I only buy from people I trust.

I I think you won't get many participants in the loaner idea either. Honestly I thought it was a nice, optimistic idea, but I doubt anyone with a decent animal would be willing to trust like that. I wouldn't. If I want diversity I would reach out to someone I trust implicitly. This would destroy my idea of quarantine, risk my entire collection. What if they used poor husbandry? What if my snake came back with burns from an unregulated heat source? My reaction once I got my hands on the borrower would send me to jail.

That said, I am all for the non marketplace non lending ideas!

I like the Idea

Sent from my SGH-T999

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Originally Posted by Ufoo9k

I find this a good idea, but for now it seems to still be in brainstorming ? Making an app is "easy", you might want to study what other free apps have to offer and are lacking compared to paying ones.

I personnaly have absolutely no interest in a marketplace like the one you want to offer. It's just asking to get sammed and really not that much of a good idea especially if you want to start. Go slow, start with the tracking and add backups and exporting and it would already be way better then many ! If you only go with the app you will also save on all that server junk that you really will not need if you stay clear of money transfers [IMG]file:///C:\Users\E208451\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\clip_image001.gif[/IMG]

Do only the tracking app for ios, android, windows, mac, linux, etc and I'll back you up 100% depending on the prices you give.
Add anything else and I'll be out and continue with the one I made for myself.

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Thank you for the input Ufoo9k

I'm with you on the concept that making a simple app is "easy" the free side of this will only take me a few hrs. maybe a little longer. If this is the side to get interest, is there any other functionality that you would want to see (aside from what was previously mentioned). I would like to make the free app fully functional as well.


Integrating functionality to allow a market place to be linked to user profiles and allow for tracking based on users data tables is a bit more difficult, and will require server side stored data otherwise the app would move at a snail’s pace and not load 90% of the time.

the point I'm trying to get to is protect the buyer, and protect the seller. What are your thoughts on the marketplace, how do you feel there would be infested with scammers? The plan was to have all transactions go through the site and have 0 checks 0 money orders, 0 wire transfers. Credit or debit only.


This is data gathering as well as brain storming and I need the herp community help, I need to know what they want to see I need to know what worries they/you have about each aspect. As much as I appreciate your help and input the "I wouldn't use that marketplace as asking to be scammed" doesn't help me as much as "it seems there may be an opportunity for scammers here etc."

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Originally Posted by Kokorobosoi

I like this idea but I have to agree with no marketplace. It would bog down the system, could lead to many issues. Plus I would never back a marketplace I only buy from people I trust.

I I think you won't get many participants in the loaner idea either. Honestly I thought it was a nice, optimistic idea, but I doubt anyone with a decent animal would be willing to trust like that. I wouldn't. If I want diversity I would reach out to someone I trust implicitly. This would destroy my idea of quarantine, risk my entire collection. What if they used poor husbandry? What if my snake came back with burns from an unregulated heat source? My reaction once I got my hands on the borrower would send me to jail.

That said, I am all for the non marketplace non lending ideas!

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Thank you for the input Kokorobsoi

The loner idea would def. need to be hashed out better for example maybe only loaning animals you were going to sell with a deposit of the full selling cost of the animal + the “rental fee” what types of things would ease your mind on the loner idea?

As for the marketplace again a lot needs to be hashed out, possibly allowing “stores” to be setup where VPI, nerd, GHI etc. could set up and have all these stores in 1 place. Ideas as to how to make it Viable would be better than. Such as making a rating system like e-bay or amazon, making people accountable for selling “bad” animals.

The More info you could provide me the more safeguards I may be able to add work out to ease people’s minds.

I am one of the small breeders you don’t know/trust I only have 1-2 clutches a year. I’m anal-retentive about my husbandry, but you all do not know that why would you buy from me if my current project pans out (cherry bomb project btw super excited about it) what can I do other than sell on a market? Maybe have it so you have to have a 5 star rating/99% positive feedback/ or whatever rating system it is, before you can open a store. Small breeders would be more inclined to make sure they do well in there husbandry so they can eventually open their own store, not everyone can afford to open an internet store.

BTW I am not bashing either of you in any way at all your help is greatly appreciated I’m just trying to make the idea viable/better.

I am a sr. programmer by trade btw, this stuff is all do-able for me, and worry not about bogging down the system etc. as they will be separate connected entities this is what I do lol


The more you all give me the more I can fix/make better. Again I Really want ideas on the basic app as well as the more advanced app with breeding. The market/loaner thing would be more website side.

I think it might be better to create a tracking/data entry sort of app separately from a marketplace app. Perhaps you could import the data from the app that has the information regarding feeding, sheds, etc., into the marketplace app, rather than having them combined?

I was really liking the sounds of this app from everything before "among other things". I'm currently using an app that's specifically for dogs to track my BP's eating, sheds, age, and other things. It's a little awkward because the only options they have are "milestones" and "diaries". Obviously, since dogs are supposed to eat every day they don't have a feeding tracker. For snakes, however, that would be lovely. So, I would gladly endorse an app that offered the services you mention as far as husbandry and record keeping. I would definitely be willing to pay $.99 or $1.99 for such an app.

I personally would not use a marketplace app, especially one with bidding. I don't feel comfortable bidding on animals. That's just me, though. Also, I think it's way too complicated to have so much data in one app. I would rather not rely on one application for storing all that information, especially when money is involved, to be the place I put all data about my animals.

Hmm, ok I'll sit down and try to write out what would make me more comfortable. And no offense meant with my answers, but it's honest. And just my personal opinion.

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Originally Posted by Kokorobosoi

Hmm, ok I'll sit down and try to write out what would make me more comfortable. And no offense meant with my answers, but it's honest. And just my personal opinion.

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i took no offence whatsoever, constructive criticism is what i need. The more negatives found (with ways to make it better) the more it will help

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Originally Posted by cristacake

I think it might be better to create a tracking/data entry sort of app separately from a marketplace app. Perhaps you could import the data from the app that has the information regarding feeding, sheds, etc., into the marketplace app, rather than having them combined?

I was really liking the sounds of this app from everything before "among other things". I'm currently using an app that's specifically for dogs to track my BP's eating, sheds, age, and other things. It's a little awkward because the only options they have are "milestones" and "diaries". Obviously, since dogs are supposed to eat every day they don't have a feeding tracker. For snakes, however, that would be lovely. So, I would gladly endorse an app that offered the services you mention as far as husbandry and record keeping. I would definitely be willing to pay $.99 or $1.99 for such an app.

I personally would not use a marketplace app, especially one with bidding. I don't feel comfortable bidding on animals. That's just me, though. Also, I think it's way too complicated to have so much data in one app. I would rather not rely on one application for storing all that information, especially when money is involved, to be the place I put all data about my animals.

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yes "they will be separate connected entities" the app will not force market use but i would like to make the market viable and usable with less worry than the current markets available, any opinions on what you would like to see to make the market a viable entity that you would use would be appreciated. i did advise some ideas i had in a previous post. after the origanal.

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Originally Posted by Naxas

Thank you for the input Ufoo9k

I'm with you on the concept that making a simple app is "easy" the free side of this will only take me a few hrs. maybe a little longer. If this is the side to get interest, is there any other functionality that you would want to see (aside from what was previously mentioned). I would like to make the free app fully functional as well.


Integrating functionality to allow a market place to be linked to user profiles and allow for tracking based on users data tables is a bit more difficult, and will require server side stored data otherwise the app would move at a snail’s pace and not load 90% of the time.

the point I'm trying to get to is protect the buyer, and protect the seller. What are your thoughts on the marketplace, how do you feel there would be infested with scammers? The plan was to have all transactions go through the site and have 0 checks 0 money orders, 0 wire transfers. Credit or debit only.


This is data gathering as well as brain storming and I need the herp community help, I need to know what they want to see I need to know what worries they/you have about each aspect. As much as I appreciate your help and input the "I wouldn't use that marketplace as asking to be scammed" doesn't help me as much as "it seems there may be an opportunity for scammers here etc."


The more you all give me the more I can fix/make better. Again I Really want ideas on the basic app as well as the more advanced app with breeding. The market/loaner thing would be more website side.

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If the market is on a seperate website that would greatly help out each one in their own way since some people might be more interested in the app and others in the marketplace.

Scammers are everywhere and even on a forum like this one that is well moderated there can always be that one bad apple that will try to take money from people. Paypal is already a "pay stuff on the internet for a fee" and even it gets a lot of problems. You want to jump in there and it might not end well. You might want to try smaller first, maybe between some friends or in different communities see if there is really that much of an interest. I've had problems with people I got to see in person that at first seemed ok. So now I try to be more careful and anything I dont see I have a lot of trouble buying. Except if I were 99% trusting of the person I bought from, plus 99% sure my money gets to the right person ? That a lot of trusting for something new and not a lot of people will get in. It might also get BYB a way to try out easy selling and that's a little like the scammers. A lot of money given but not much received. Except if you have a way to get that money back, the buyer loses both. Same way for the seller. If there is a way to get a refund, someone might buy a snake then spoof up an excuse and say they did not receive it, it died or is sick and then he gets a refund and the snake.

As for the app, the exciting part really (!), I have no idea what could be interesting. I said I use my own but it's really just a sheet I update for weight of snake, food weigth, when I last fed, when I need to feed next, substrate change, complete cleanups, sheds, problerms to check for, quarantine, age, morph, sex, where it came from, when I got it and when it was born, all breedings, last eggs, how many with which snake. That seems to be pretty much what I keep on my list. A lot of them are blanks since I do not have the info, but I do have them ready for when it happens.

Something that could be nice is a prey size calculator of some sort. Like, write age and weight of snake and the calculator gives size of prey (ex: 3mo 150g bp gets 10-15g prey (mouse hopper or rat fuzzy) ) with choice of size % (10 or 15) or girth size (if snake is that big it should be this prey) and now I'm giving myselkf an idea for something to do XD

thanks for the info Ufoo9k

Anyone else have any ideas on what they would like to see in an app to track data? even if its something you like/dislike about apps you have used?

I'd like to see feeder information, and the ability to link it to my alerts. I.e., alert to feed tubs a-l. And if my snakes weights and preferred feeders are imputed then give me a list of how many of what I need.

Ive had the ultimate blonde moment of 9 hungry reptiles.....and 7 feeder rodents. Whoops.

I'd like something to include other herps. I have pythons, boas, beardies, a monitor, a chameleon, and feeder colonies for... Well let's say everyone. things slip through the cracks sometimes.

This is a pipedream but I'd cheerfully pay for something that can tell me, if I input my rat litters, if I'm going to have enough pups/small rats/etc for the next feedings.

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Originally Posted by Kokorobosoi

I'd like to see feeder information, and the ability to link it to my alerts. I.e., alert to feed tubs a-l. And if my snakes weights and preferred feeders are imputed then give me a list of how many of what I need.

Ive had the ultimate blonde moment of 9 hungry reptiles.....and 7 feeder rodents. Whoops.

I'd like something to include other herps. I have pythons, boas, beardies, a monitor, a chameleon, and feeder colonies for... Well let's say everyone. things slip through the cracks sometimes.

This is a pipedream but I'd cheerfully pay for something that can tell me, if I input my rat litters, if I'm going to have enough pups/small rats/etc for the next feedings.

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hmm alright but i would be able to add animals on updates

i only have bp's boas a hognose and scorpions i would need the info on more animals for more functions

adding a colony tracker but i only run a roach colony tho

and a rodent breeding tracker wouldn't be to hard i have had a program running for rats and mice for a while

ill give my 2 cents

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Originally Posted by Naxas

I plan on making a secure marketplace with a payment system similar to Paypal with payment plan options to be set by seller (autopay, etc.). (Free app users will be able to buy from this market but not able to sell.)

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If your not amazon google or paypal. I'm not giving you my credit card number to hold onto.

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Originally Posted by Naxas

The marketplace will allow you to post animals for sale, with the ability to allow potential buyers to see all info tracked on that animal since it was an egg (feeding, shedding, general husbandry, etc.) and also the parents (Where they came from, Issues such as “wobbles”, Husbandry, etc.). This will allow responsible breeders more free time as it will make e-mailing and phone communications unnecessary, as well as selling their animals faster. This will also eliminate irresponsible breeders as their animals would be unlikely to sell without the for mentioned information.

A small side note: Double het animals would be better tracked making them slightly easier to sell

- buy (no trade offers will be allowed here)
- sell
- trade
- the ability to offer less with a 1 click deny or accept for seller. I plan on making a back end minimum accepted amount so the seller will only receive this if the minimum is met. Otherwise the offer will be auto rejected on a delay so people would not be able to keep offering until the minimum is met, essentially "masking" the minimum.
- An auction type system where 1 click buy and bid system would be incorporated similar to e-bay

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communication between the buyer and seller is an absolute must imo. these are animals not ipads. Having much of the information available pre communication isn't a bad by any means, but to say its unnecessary? I can't see myself buying an animal without some sort of human interaction, even if it is just email. How do I know the animal didn't get sold locally or die, maybe it has mites now. I just send money and hope it shows up? nah. also the way it reads, I feel like someone like me might be punished, I track feedings on animals I'm selling, that's it. I don't track my own animals as I see it as a waste of time, I don't track sheds or defecation on anything as I see it as pointless info. Am I going to be seen as the irresponsible breeder on this website? Problem I have with the offer system is as a seller, what I will accept has many variables that change day to day and a lot of it has to do with the human interaction also

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Originally Posted by Naxas

secure transaction loans (free app users will not be able to access this section)
- Create a new revenue stream for breeders that have snakes not involved in projects. As well as allow a cheaper way to work on new projects by smaller breeders. (genetic diversity people we neeeeeeed it)

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This would be another thread but my take, we don't need genetic diversity, we need selective breeding.

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Originally Posted by Naxas

- Requests for loaned animals
- post animals available for loan. A "rental fee" etc. may be set by loaner (i know rental fee sounds cold as we all love our animals but i couldn't think of another term at the moment)
- Deposits (set by lender and enforced by the site) to make it easier to lend a snake with less worry as well as protecting the buyer as the deposit is never in the hands of the lender it is held by 3rd party.
- the ability to view your loans status via the lendee's tracking (also the ability to charge fees for not appropriately updating the status of snakes that are loaned to you, pics if required etc., to be set by lender, and paid to the lender). The lender would be able to view this at any time.
- I have many ideas on this that are yet to be hashed out.

with the above 2 items there will most likely be some sort of % based payment to the site, as there would be no way to keep it going without a viable income stream. The % will be small such as 5 cents on the dollar or less

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Loans carry a lot of risk for both parties so they are pretty rare. I don't know how much use you would see from this.

I also feel you are putting a lot of responsibility on yourself with the 3rd party payments. The idea works fine when everyone is happy, but when animals do unpredictable things or people lie, how are these issue going to be dealt with while you are holding onto my money? I know you have have a lot to hash out, but these are some of my thoughts as I read through. hope it helps

Unrealistic as described

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I plan on making a secure marketplace with a payment system similar to Paypal with payment plan options to be set by seller (autopay, etc.). (Free app users will be able to buy from this market but not able to sell.)

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Unless you have a button that pays the breeder DIRECTLY using one of the major online payment system (Paypal, amazon etc) this will not work, no one will give their credit card number to someone that no one knows and has no track records in this industry (people have done that in the past and it didn’t work out too good). There is also the issue of people pay and YOU process the transaction and then YOU send the money to the breeder? That would require a lot of faith on both parts. So what if the buyer pays, you process the transaction and the seller never gets the fund (for whatever reason)? You then have an impatient buyer and thing can go south very quickly even if the seller is not at fault.

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The marketplace will allow you to post animals for sale, with the ability to allow potential buyers to see all info tracked on that animal since it was an egg (feeding, shedding, general husbandry, etc.) and also the parents (Where they came from, Issues such as “wobbles”, Husbandry, etc.). This will allow responsible breeders more free time as it will make e-mailing and phone communications unnecessary, as well as selling their animals faster. This will also eliminate irresponsible breeders as their animals would be unlikely to sell without the for mentioned information

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Tracking it all? Most people don’t track it all some don’t track anything at all, I know you are saying that you are a breeder but you must not have hatched many animals otherwise you would see the issue with the idea, it’s easy for someone that has 3 or 4 clutches to track food, poop, shed, urate…..someone hatching hundreds or thousands of animals a year will not track any of that (and I don't understand how you equal that to being irresponsible). When buying an animal you will know what the animal eats, and the hatch date (if you buy from a large scale breeder), if you buy from a smaller scale breeder you may get a feeding record.

Now even if breeders were recording everything the data entry would be a turn off. Have you look around at typical ads, you have the necessary info (year,mutation, sex) and when people show interest they just ask for more info (that usually does not include when the snake ate or poop or shed), feeding records are usually provided at the time of purchase, imagine entering lengthy data for hundreds or thousands of animals.

The idea of the more data to prevent "unnecessary" communication is not a good idea, you might get that idea from some breeders who have shopping carts on their site but I guarantee that before the person click on add to cart there is still communication going on. As a buyer I like to gauge the person I am buying from and ask specific details (I don't care when the snake shed or poop or how many times he had), and also while most breeders will sell to anyone and may appreciate a cart system a few like myself like to gauge potential customers as well and be able to refuse the sale. (can't do that without communication)


The auction thing not my cup of tea but to each their own, I look for quality animals not the cheapest thing around.

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- Create a new revenue stream for breeders that have snakes not involved in projects. As well as allow a cheaper way to work on new projects by smaller breeders. (genetic diversity people we neeeeeeed it)
- Requests for loaned animals
- post animals available for loan. A "rental fee" etc. may be set by loaner (i know rental fee sounds cold as we all love our animals but i couldn't think of another term at the moment)
- Deposits (set by lender and enforced by the site) to make it easier to lend a snake with less worry as well as protecting the buyer as the deposit is never in the hands of the lender it is held by 3rd party.

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Awful idea the majority of breeding loans are nothing but trouble when done by people that have known each other for years so imagine between strangers, you also don’t realize that snake loans are not like other animal loans it’s not about stud fees.

Having goals is great however you need to understand how this unique market works, and what people on each side would like to see.

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Originally Posted by OhhWatALoser

ill give my 2 cents


If your not amazon google or paypal. I'm not giving you my credit card number to hold onto.



communication between the buyer and seller is an absolute must imo. these are animals not ipads. Having much of the information available pre communication isn't a bad by any means, but to say its unnecessary? I can't see myself buying an animal without some sort of human interaction, even if it is just email. How do I know the animal didn't get sold locally or die, maybe it has mites now. I just send money and hope it shows up? nah. also the way it reads, I feel like someone like me might be punished, I track feedings on animals I'm selling, that's it. I don't track my own animals as I see it as a waste of time, I don't track sheds or defecation on anything as I see it as pointless info. Am I going to be seen as the irresponsible breeder on this website? Problem I have with the offer system is as a seller, what I will accept has many variables that change day to day and a lot of it has to do with the human interaction also


This would be another thread but my take, we don't need genetic diversity, we need selective breeding.


Loans carry a lot of risk for both parties so they are pretty rare. I don't know how much use you would see from this.

I also feel you are putting a lot of responsibility on yourself with the 3rd party payments. The idea works fine when everyone is happy, but when animals do unpredictable things or people lie, how are these issue going to be dealt with while you are holding onto my money? I know you have have a lot to hash out, but these are some of my thoughts as I read through. hope it helps

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Thats all been nixed anyways was going back to my original idea. Trying to just get an app to help people not really to make money, its clear a market is not wanted.

all I was trying to do with a market was to make it so people like me I go for a cpl clutches a year, its a hobby, my name is never really going to be out there and I will always have a hard time selling what i cant keep.
I had a different idea that may or may not solve the issue, without a marketplace, anyway but that's for a different time.



I'm just making a tracking app, if anyone wants to put there 2 cents in on what they wanna see in a tracking app go ahead.