Constricted; killed; didn't eat.

I fed Goblin a prekilled rat a few days ago. He constricted, "killed" it, and had the head in his mouth. About this time, I went to bed. Next morning, the rat was still in the cage and he was in his hidespot.
Why would he let go of the head, already in his mouth, and stop eating? The rat really was not too big for him, and since it was prekilled, there's no way I did not warm it up enough for him to want it.

Maybe it was regurgitated.

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Originally Posted by Ginevive

Why would he let go of the head, already in his mouth, and stop eating?

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Most of the time I've seen this behavior it is stress related.

Is he due to shed? Or, check the inside of his mouth for extra fluid indicating a possible URI coming on.

Just my experiences.

-adam

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Originally Posted by Isshinharu

Maybe it was regurgitated.

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There is no mistaking a regurgitated rat. The smell alone will make your knees buckle!!! :D

-adam

Maybe he wanted a doggy bag? Was out to lunch with a friend earlier and you didn't know it? ;)

My guy has struck/coiled a couple food items, only to leave them sitting for me to find later. He's never started to eat them and stopped though, that's a little different.

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

There is no mistaking a regurgitated rat. The smell alone will make your knees buckle!!! :D

-adam

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Haha. Understandable. I thought about that after I posted and was second guessing. I was going to edit my post but cant figure out how (I'm a member of a few other forums... but new here.) Just got my ball so luckily I haven't had the misfortune of experiencing that yet. In fact, she hasn't had a meal since she hatched on 4/1...

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Originally Posted by Isshinharu

Just got my ball so luckily I haven't had the misfortune of experiencing that yet. In fact, she hasn't had a meal since she hatched on 4/1...

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Someone sold you a captive bred ball python that hasn't been started on food yet? Sad.

Good luck with her.

-adam

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

Someone sold you a captive bred ball python that hasn't been started on food yet? Sad.

Good luck with her.

-adam

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I know I know... I debated for a while specifically because of that. Probably not the smartest move on my part. It was at the reptile show here in Tampa last weekend. My neighbor also got one from the same clutch and hers ate Wed night. They've both gone through their first shed (since we've had them), and seem to be in great health, good temperment and active. Regardless, I'll be taking her to the vet this weekend. Just to get her checked out.

Anyway, sorry for the thread hi-jack. :oops:

go the pet store and see if htey will sell you a baby gerbil or baby hampster for the price of a hopper rat.

most bp wont refuse a gerbil. its what they eat in the wild.

also. try takign a needle and stabbign the mouse in the skull, dead or alive, if its alive it will be movine and needle through the skull will render it fairly harmless, then put it in the cage and watch. make sure their is no fans on. if my snakes feel ari moving over them they wont eat.

good luck

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Originally Posted by loganallred

go the pet store and see if htey will sell you a baby gerbil or baby hampster for the price of a hopper rat.

most bp wont refuse a gerbil. its what they eat in the wild.

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1. Ball pythons are typically imprint feeders. If you feed them a hamster or gerbil once, there's a good chance they will never take a rat or a mouse again. And with gerbils and hamster running 2 - 3 times the price of rats in some places, it's really not a good idea.

2. There's no need to EVER feed a pet ball python that has been previously eating rats or mice in captivity a gerbil or a hamster. Fasts of animals that have been previously eating are usually a husbandry related issue and should not be solved with a change in diet.

3. Ball pythons do not eat the mongolian gerbils found in pet stores in the wild.

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Originally Posted by loganallred

also. try takign a needle and stabbign the mouse in the skull, dead or alive, if its alive it will be movine and needle through the skull will render it fairly harmless, then put it in the cage and watch.

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I'm no tree hugger, but this is exceptionally cruel and not necessary. "Braining" is a technique sometimes used with reptile eating species of snakes in order to get them to take a rodent, but totally not necessary with ball pythons.

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Originally Posted by loganallred

make sure their is no fans on. if my snakes feel ari moving over them they wont eat.

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I have multiple fans blowing 24 hours a day all year long in all of the rooms in my facility and have no trouble getting my ball pythons to eat.

-adam

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Originally Posted by loganallred

go the pet store and see if htey will sell you a baby gerbil or baby hampster for the price of a hopper rat.

most bp wont refuse a gerbil. its what they eat in the wild.

also. try takign a needle and stabbign the mouse in the skull, dead or alive, if its alive it will be movine and needle through the skull will render it fairly harmless, then put it in the cage and watch. make sure their is no fans on. if my snakes feel ari moving over them they wont eat.

good luck

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Actually, African snakes eating Asian rodents in the wild is very unlikely. Gerbils are just *more similar* to their most common natural prey than mice and rats are, and usually easier to get them eating because of that. The needle trick is pretty cruel and unnecessary too. Gin's snake has been eating rats for a good while and just turned down this meal, so there's no need to go to extreme measures just yet. He's probably about to shed or something.

Great minds think alike! ;)

-adam

I don't think getting a ball started on gerbils or hamsters is a good idea. $8-$20 hamsters every week gets a little expensive, especially when you have to feed multiples. I bred gerbils for quite awhile, and they only give you maybe 4-6 babies at a time, although the most she gave me was 9. Gerbils can get expensive too. The snake I was feeding them to would take 4-5 small gerbils each feeding(the whole litter) and then it was another 4-5 weeks until the next litter was big enough to feed off.

Braining should only be done in pinkie mice/rats because their skulls are still soft and the bones haven't fused together yet. Only do it to f/t pinkies because otherwise, it's just not nice... Not that you have to worry about giving pinkie anything to a baby ball. They are big enough to take adult mice when they hatch. When my girl was on mice(I did away with them myself), they would usually have a little blood coming out of their nose, and that always did the trick. Braining should not be performed on live animals because 1.) I don't think they will be very much alive if you go sticking a safety pin in their skull and 2.) if it's an adult mouse/rat, they are not going to allow you to stick the pin in their skull without putting up a fight and you getting bitten.

Baby kings, milks and corns are usually the ones who need this done, and they are only big enough for small pinkie mice as it is. I'm pretty sure most will just take live pinkies without the braining(could be wrong, though).

Enough about that. Let's just stick with mice and rats. Don't want the baby getting imprinted on gerbils for the next 20+ years. :)

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Originally Posted by SatanicIntention

I'm pretty sure most will just take live pinkies without the braining(could be wrong, though).

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How much better luck would one have if they were to offer a live pinky over a frozen one? Significantly better?

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

Great minds think alike! ;)

-adam

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I almost posted that but stopped myself. Now I'm glad I did. :P

I would start the baby on live, maybe a small adult mouse. Look at the fattest part of the snake's body, and if a small adult mouse will fit(stretched out) in there, try one. Petco usually has sm. adults that are a good size. Some of your mom and pop stores might as well. Hoppers and fuzzies are a little small for a normal size hatchling.

i stand by everything i said.

i dont know where yall live, but gerbils and hamsters, even adult ones dont cost more than 10$

an dlike i said. use babies, in situations where you have a difficult feeding animals.

i feed my ball on rats, mice, gerbils, and occasionally a hamster.

mostly rats though.

and, i would brain, cut open, dismember a rat every day if i thought it would help my pet to eat.

so yeah, put a baby gerbil in there and see how long it lasts, ihtinkyoull be suprised.

and to those of yall who breed balls, you should know that if your snakes od get imprinted on gerbils, get mice and put them in a bag of soiled gerbil bedding for a few minutes.

problem solved.

Here, the only places you can get gerbils are Petco and Petsmart. At both places, they cost $9, and they are quite small. It would have taken 5 of them to fill my friend's ball up. $9x5=$45+ tax. That is quite alot of money to spend every 2 weeks or so.

If your's is doing fine on gerbils and hamsters, that's great. Just like Adam said, resorting to feeding gerbils and hamsters is usually based on a husbandry problem, especially if the snake was eating mice and rats before.

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i would brain, cut open, dismember a rat every day if i thought it would help my pet to eat

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Having to do that would be unnecessary, and disgusting, if your husbandry is correct. If everything is spot-on, and the snake isn't losing weight, wait him out. They will eat when their body tells them to. If mine didn't eat one week, I would wait until the next regularly scheduled feeding time.

Imprinting means to recognize an object by sight, smell and taste. White lab mice look nothing like a mongolian gerbil, they smell nothing like a gerbil, and more than likely, they taste different. Ball pythons don't require variety in their diet, so feeding all sorts of prey items is pretty unnecessary. Please don't recommend that someone start a non-feeding baby ball on gerbils. If that person lives in a town where gerbils cost $8 a pop, it would get expensive, especially if they want to eventually get the baby ball onto f/t prey. F/t gerbils aren't too readily come by.

i feel like im talking to bricks.

my post was filled with "ifs"

obviously, buying a non feeding ball is a husbandry problem, its probably the base problem for most difficulties in store bought, or "carted around to expo" animals.

id rather spend 20 bucks and work at getting a ball or any snake to eat rat, after feeding it a gerbil, than have it starve to death, or pay a 70$ exotic pet set up fee @ the vet.


i feed mine on rats 9 out of 10 times, but i think mine enjoys the novelty of a gerbil or hamster occasionally.

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Originally Posted by loganallred

...obviously, buying a non feeding ball is a husbandry problem...

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On who's part... The buyer or the seller? What if it's just a hatchling... how much time is too much time before it takes a pinky?

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Originally Posted by loganallred

i stand by everything i said.

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Well, it's good that you're not standing "behind" everything you said (as the saying goes) because it's pretty bad advice for the average ball python owner.

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Originally Posted by loganallred

i dont know where yall live, but gerbils and hamsters, even adult ones dont cost more than 10$

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"adult ones" at $10 are still more expensive than a small rat or two adult mice which are both perfect meals for an adult ball python. Not everyone has the disposable income it takes to feed a snake that's stuck on eating gerbils.

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Originally Posted by loganallred

an dlike i said. use babies, in situations where you have a difficult feeding animals.

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why was this again? so that you can mutilate them while they are still alive to get your ball python to eat when the fasting is actually more likely stress related due to problems with security or temps?

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Originally Posted by loganallred

i feed my ball on rats, mice, gerbils, and occasionally a hamster.

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That's very good for you and your ball python. What you fail to realize, probably due to lack of experience, is that many ball pythons will not readily switch back and forth from one prey item to another. Advising someone to "just feed a gerbil" isn't really that great of an idea.

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Originally Posted by loganallred

mostly rats though.

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And why is that? Maybe because rats are cheaper and more readily available than gerbils?

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Originally Posted by loganallred

and, i would brain, cut open, dismember a rat every day if i thought it would help my pet to eat.

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Torturing and mutilating one animal in order to feed another is not considered responsible pet ownership by any stretch of the imagination. I would rather practice proper ball python husbandry and understand that ball pythons are natural fasters and can go a very long time without a meal and still remain in good health before I began the practice of lobotomizing baby rodents.

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Originally Posted by loganallred

so yeah, put a baby gerbil in there and see how long it lasts, ihtinkyoull be suprised.

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What about the people that live in California where gerbils are illegal. What should they do? or are they just SOL?

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Originally Posted by loganallred

and to those of yall who breed balls, you should know that if your snakes od get imprinted on gerbils, get mice and put them in a bag of soiled gerbil bedding for a few minutes.

problem solved.

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Oh, it's that easy huh? LOL .... Sounds like a little too much time spent on internet message boards and not a whole lot of practical experience behind those statements.

-adam

haha....I could not afford to provide food for myself if I was feeding gerbils or hamsters. Feed mice/rats, save your money, and buy yourself something nice. Your bp will be ok missing a few meals :)


back on point.

Ginevive you said that your bp had the rodents head in its mouth last time you checked. That might have been it. I have noticed several times that if I make any fast movements or check in at the wrong moment my male bp will drop his mice and 'retreat'. He has always came back for it later though (he is a little piggy...weighed 400 g today :) ). Thats why once the 'killing' starts I usually just turn off the lights and give him some peace (every now and then I watch...cause whats the fun if you cant watch, right?). Just thought i would share. Hope that helps some.

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Originally Posted by loganallred

i feel like im talking to bricks.

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from the looks of it the "bricks" feel the same way :juggle:

Sounds like your bp is a killer. He kills for sport instead of for food. dont worry he'll eat some day