how has the price of morphs changed over the years?

I was just wondering how the price of the base morphs have changed over the years. I was told by a breeder that he purchased an male albino in 2001 for $3000, now they go for about $2000. I was just wondering if anyone knows of some cost data for the base morphs over the past 5 years to 10 years.

i don't have alot of data but albinos were around 10k i think in the early 90's. i haven't been into balls long enough but i think co-dom morphs like pastels and spiders will drop faster than recessive ones like albinos and pieds because you don't need het females to produce morphs. just my thoughts!
adam's an old dusty ball breeder, he can fill in alot more.


vaughn

There are very few exceptions to the rule that prices tend to be lower ever year (mainly ghost which proved to make nice combos). As supply increases, unless demand spikes faster than the increase in supply, the price goes down. Still, if your animals are breeding, you should produce enough more to pay for the more expensive breeders pretty quick.

It will be interesting to see what sort of leveling off effect there is/will be at the bottom (after years and years). It looks like albino didn't really budge much last year so perhaps it's already getting to a stabilization price at a much higher amount than I expected. I guess people pay big bucks for purebred dogs and exotic birds so maybe a $1,500 albino ball python will hold up. What about pastel, is it leveling off yet? How do you factor appearance and inheritance method into the leveling off price? Certainly it's effected by how much breeders are willing to work to produce at a given price but that apparently isn't the only factor.

i think i actually read that somewhere about albinos. i was thinking the same about co-dom morphs, but I am just not in the business as much as others to make that call.

I hope someone can fill in a bit. This is just something that has sparked my interest in the past few weeks. I have been trying to find bp prices for the base morphs from 2000, but have not had any luck.

and i have read several time about breeders waiting to see what 'this years prices' will be? how does each years price get determined? Do you just stick with the price from the previous year then lower your price if none are selling?

I am trying to figure the ball python business aspect out. I

I paid $5,000 for a het albino male almost 10 years ago. I also paid $6,500 for my original lemon pastel male many moons ago. I am thrilled with how prices have held up over the last ten years and the future looks just as good. There's a lot of new money coming into this hobby each year and I am very excited about what’s ahead!

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Originally Posted by daniel1983

and i have read several time about breeders waiting to see what 'this years prices' will be? how does each years price get determined? Do you just stick with the price from the previous year then lower your price if none are selling?

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I factor in a bunch of things when I set my prices ... I start with the same price the animals were last year ... then I wait to see how many I get of each morph ... this is a big thing for me, because I want to sell animals and I want to hold animals back ... so if I have a high demand for say female albinos and I only produce 2, then my price on them will be a little higher than market. That way, if one sells, great! I make a few bucks and maybe trade for a replacement with another breeder. On the other hand, if the higher than market price scares off customers, then I keep them for myself and that's great too.

Things like how the "big guys" are pricing their animals, new combos that people are going crazy over, ads on the web by idiots taking deposits on animals that they haven't produced yet, and the numbers of a given morph sold the previous year also play big time into what prices are going to be.

Hope this helps.

-adam

So ,availability and your own breeding interests basically set the price. I think I understand for the most part. thanks.

The more people that get into this hobby and breed morphs -
The faster the prices will fall -
Heres an example -

http://www.reptimart.com/cgi-bin/cla...uery=retrieval

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Originally Posted by Leon

The more people that get into this hobby and breed morphs -
The faster the prices will fall

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but the more people that get into this hobby and want to breed ball pythons...the demand for ball pythons will increase.

I assume the number of bp owners is constantly increasing at this moment, but I guess eventually it will level off and the prices may drop a bit due to lack of demand. but no telling when that will happen.

I posted this question because I keep asking myself queistions like: why should I spend $1000 now for a pastel...when I can get one for $600 a two years down the road. or spend $700 for a het albino pair that will produce albinos in two years... when I can just buy an albino for $1000 in two years. I am not really trying to develop a big business(or even a small business)...I just want get some nice snakes and save myself some money. My goal is to eventually reach the point where I own around 6-10 nice ball pythons and breed them to supply money for their food and housing. I am just trying to look out for my investment so far and judge what to do in the future.

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Originally Posted by Leon

The more people that get into this hobby and breed morphs -
The faster the prices will fall -
Heres an example -

http://www.reptimart.com/cgi-bin/cla...uery=retrieval

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Hmmm ... smells like scam to me. The demand for albinos is very strong at the $2,000 - $2,500 price point ... anyone selling them for less AND hiding on reptimart should be examined very carefully IMO.

-adam

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Originally Posted by daniel1983

but the more people that get into this hobby and want to breed ball pythons...the demand for ball pythons will increase.

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But demand exists at different levels .... there is a short list of people that will invest $35,000 on a single ball python and a huge list of people that will spend $1,000.

Once the number of buyers at a given price point is exhausted, the price will drop until it finds a new group of buyers.

It's simple economincs .... that's why the price of plasma televisions falls each year. :D

-adam

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Originally Posted by daniel1983

why should I spend $1000 now for a pastel...when I can get one for $600 a two years down the road.

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Two reasons that I can think of for myself ....

1. Because you have the money to invest and you really love the way pastel ball pythons look. That is my primary motivation behind every ball python morph I invest in. If I see something I like (which seems to be everything) I want it "NOW", but I don't always have the money "NOW" to I end up having to wait.

2. Because that $1,000 pastel will produce many $600 babies in two years, but the $600 pastel in two years will only produce potentially $400 babies when it's sexually mature. The earlier you get in on a project, the better return you will see on your investment over the long term.

-adam

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

Hmmm ... smells like scam to me. The demand for albinos is very strong at the $2,000 - $2,500 price point ... anyone selling them for less AND hiding on reptimart should be examined very carefully IMO.

-adam

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Well, at this point you can pick up a Lemon Pastel Male for $1000 -
I'd say prices are drasticly dropping -
The more people the Lemon Pastels or Albinos for sale -
The cheaper they'll be getting.

ha....i get the first reason .... that is exactly how i feel. I want them all but I dont have the money.

reason 2...I have not really looked at it that way. great point, the earlier the better. more money spent now means more money made down the road.

thanks adam.

where are you finding all of these cheap snakes? my motto...you pay for what you get so look out.

leon, of all of the people that have lemons and albinos, what would you say is the percentage that actually breed them? It certainly is not 100%. Probably not even 75%. And with albinos sales being up...you need 2 to 3 years to get your females up to size...so the price would not really even come down any until then.

I have seen alot of pastels go for sale on the classified in the past 2 months. You know why? people have breed these males to their females and are looking to get some money back. I definately see more pastel activity on the boards than any other base morph...BTW..I never see hypos for sale.

Even if they go down to not much more than a normal, I will still buy and breed them.. why? Because they are SO beautiful! It'd be great if I could make money from them still, but even if they just paid for themselves, that'd be great! A self-sustaining hobby. I think it's important to only breed what you personally love, I get the feeling that a lot of breeders buy morphs just because they bring a lot of money, not because they actually like them.

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Originally Posted by Shelby

Even if they go down to not much more than a normal, I will still buy and breed them.. why? Because they are SO beautiful! It'd be great if I could make money from them still, but even if they just paid for themselves, that'd be great! A self-sustaining hobby. I think it's important to only breed what you personally love, I get the feeling that a lot of breeders buy morphs just because they bring a lot of money, not because they actually like them.

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:) great shelby. thats is the way I feel. :) I am just really looking to increase my collection. I figure breeding and selling is a way to get some extra money to pay my bp expenses and save up so I can afford something really nice. Kind of like spend all the money you make on more expensive bps. I am just trying to figure the best way to go about it all.

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Originally Posted by Leon

Well, at this point you can pick up a Lemon Pastel Male for $1000 -
I'd say prices are drasticly dropping -

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From $6,500 in 1998 to $1,000 in 2005 isn't drastic in my book.

-adam

adam, thats great info....just what i was looking for...

You would not happen to have the prices for all the years in between would you? I was looking to do some analysis...maybe develop a model for the cost data..(ha...i am bored and I think it would be pretty cool to put all of that info about some of the morph prices on a nice graph :) ).

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Originally Posted by daniel1983

adam, thats great info....just what i was looking for...

You would not happen to have the prices for all the years in between would you? I was looking to do some analysis...maybe develop a model for the cost data..(ha...i am bored and I think it would be pretty cool to put all of that info about some of the morph prices on a nice graph :) ).

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Not off the top of my head ... I'm sure if we sat down with a beer or two I could dust off the ole skull cap and remember some prices, but the ADD is in overdrive today and I'm drawing a major blank right now.

If anything comes to me I'll shoot you an email!

-adam

Adam, you don't think
$6,500 in 1998 to $1,000 in 2005

Isn't drastic?
So in another few years, they'll be as common as Albino Burms? :P

I'll just say as common as albino burms are, they still rock in my book. :)

It's funny to see the look on people's face when they realise that big yellow snake I'm holding is actually real and not made of rubber. lol

LMAO....skull cap.

if you remember anything feel free to send an email.

I have been keeping track of all kinds of info on my bps...I figure that one day I will have some nice data to share with everyone. ha...i keep looking at that female weight graph from the Ball Python Manual.... only 3 ball pythons were used for that.....I would love to see what 50-100 test subjects would look like.

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Originally Posted by Leon

Adam, you don't think
$6,500 in 1998 to $1,000 in 2005

Isn't drastic?
So in another few years, they'll be as common as Albino Burms? :P

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Perhaps, but I think Balls will always be more in demand than a Burm for obvious reasons. Besides, if you are thinking about breeding but are only looking at Pastels, then I could see how you might be discouraged by the numbers. However if you look at the multitude of morphs available and new ones that haven't even been discovered (created) yet, you will see the potential. Now if a Pastel Pinstripe was in the $200 range I might get a little worried. :P

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Originally Posted by Leon

Adam, you don't think
$6,500 in 1998 to $1,000 in 2005

Isn't drastic?

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With all of the pastels that are on the market, for prices to still be that strong after 7 years and pastels being a co-dominant morph, you're darn tootin that I don't think it's drastic.

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Originally Posted by Leon

So in another few years, they'll be as common as Albino Burms? :P

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There are far more people that will be willing to purchase a beautiful yellow and black snake that gets 4 ft and eats small rats than a 12ft behemoth that you have to feed rabbits. They will hopefully be as common, but certainly not as cheap. The demand for ball pythons is strong!! Once the $1,000 market is exhausted, pastels will settle in around the $500 price range and then the buying frenzy will begin!! All good stuff for people producing pastels!

-adam

Pastels sell between $1000 to $2000 right now.

Super Pastels sell between $10000 to $15000 right now.

If you have pastels...you can always start making supers...It is great to have that option.

If the price of pastels drops to $500....What will the super pastel price drop to...maybe $5000-$7000.

I think that dominant morphs with a homozygous form offer much more opportunities than others.

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Originally Posted by xdeus

Besides, if you are thinking about breeding but are only looking at Pastels, then I could see how you might be discouraged by the numbers.

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I think only working with pastels is still good money ... Selling 20 pastels a year at $500 each is outstanding money for very little work and overhead. Plus, you can keep making that money for 20 years potentially. Even with the prices going down each year, there is still no better return on an investment ... not stock, bonds, real estate, not anything ... well, not anything legal at least. :D:D:D

-adam

great topic! i bought a pastel last year for a 1k and i know that by this fall or next, prices will be lower but i don't think that i can't make my grand back.
even if they go to 500-600 i'll still make profit, hopefully on the first breeding year. one thing to think about is that as prices drop the customer base multiplies. from an investment point of view i don't think a bank or stock market will give you that much back in 2-3 yrs! if you'll no of one that will please let me know! lol. the different combos of ball morphs will help alot to keep prices good for a while, it is going to take years to saturate the market with all the ball morphs. how many years do you think it will take to see bumblebee or snow in petsmart? just my thoughts!


vaughn

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Originally Posted by kavmon

how many years do you think it will take to see bumblebee or snow in petsmart?

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vaughn....you are funny.:)

don't laugh too much your great grandkids might be buying snows there! lol


vaughn

One of the other reasons that price of albino burms dropped down very quickly is the clutch size (number of eggs). A burm has a clutch around...3 times, I think? the size of a bp clutch. Something like 18 to 23 burm eggs to like 4-6 bp eggs or so. Those numbers aren't exact, but that's what I remember from a discussion on this a while back.

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Originally Posted by Schlyne

One of the other reasons that price of albino burms dropped down very quickly is the clutch size (number of eggs). A burm has a clutch around...3 times, I think? the size of a bp clutch. Something like 18 to 23 burm eggs to like 4-6 bp eggs or so. Those numbers aren't exact, but that's what I remember from a discussion on this a while back.

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We've had big female Burms throw 75+ eggs in a clutch. That's a LOT of albinos!

K~

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Originally Posted by KLG

We've had big female Burms throw 75+ eggs in a clutch. That's a LOT of albinos!

K~

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Screw the woma x IJ stuff ... breed THOSE genetics into a ball python, lets get crackin guys!!! :D:D:D

Did she look like a big deflated waterbed after? :p

-adam

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Originally Posted by KLG

We've had big female Burms throw 75+ eggs in a clutch. That's a LOT of albinos!

K~

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:O Holy Moly! I wonder if we can market burm eggs to replace chicken eggs for your morning omelet.

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

With all of the pastels that are on the market, for prices to still be that strong after 7 years and pastels being a co-dominant morph, you're darn tootin that I don't think it's drastic.



There are far more people that will be willing to purchase a beautiful yellow and black snake that gets 4 ft and eats small rats than a 12ft behemoth that you have to feed rabbits. They will hopefully be as common, but certainly not as cheap. The demand for ball pythons is strong!! Once the $1,000 market is exhausted, pastels will settle in around the $500 price range and then the buying frenzy will begin!! All good stuff for people producing pastels!

-adam

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If they lost as much as $5000 off their value in the last 7 years -
Where do you see Pastels in the next 7 years?
:O

Adam, add me to be the first inline to purchase Pastels for $200 on your list -
When the prices start dropping. ;)

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Originally Posted by Leon

If they lost as much as $5000 off their value in the last 7 years -
Where do you see Pastels in the next 7 years?
:O

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Don't think of the price drop as linear. As the price lowers it becomes more and more stable because the market opens wider. So the lower it goes the longer it takes to drop again. It could be another 5 years to get below $500 ... then there's also the combo factor .... hypo males use to be around $700 and now they are at least $1,000 and hard to come by because of the hypo combos ... this year we could see pastel pieds, pastel caramels, and pastel genetic stripes which could hold the price at current levels for another 18 months or so.

From this price point on, every dollar lower will be a battle. The drop from the higher prices is easier to explain because there is a lot fewer buyers at $1,500 - $2,000 and up than there are at the $1,000 price point. Lots and lots of people are buying pastels and will buy them again this year ... the market is getting stronger!

Ball python morphs are a fantastic investment at any price point. The only thing lowering prices does is make them EASIER to sell, and that's a good thing!!

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Adam, add me to be the first inline to purchase Pastels for $200 on your list -
When the prices start dropping. ;)

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I will never sell pastels for $200 ... this year or next is probably my last year producing them in any real quantity ... gotta get out of the way so that my customers can breed their pastels and make some money too!!! :D

-adam

I think that is part of the reason why morphs will have a bottom. At some point they become so cheap that some breeders will stop breeding them and fewer will start. The normals aren't as cheap as they are because people are willing to breed them for that, it's because Africans are willing to dig eggs up for that.

Think of all the pastels he sold in 7 years to make up for that $5,000 drop. I bet it’s way more than $5,000 worth. A good rule of thumb for considering it you should buy this year or next (assuming you have the funds to even make the option) would be if the extra year's production should pay for the expected decrease in price by waiting a year. With co-dominant males it's hard to imagine it not working out if you have the big normal females ready to go.