Male breeding size at 350 grams??

Someone I met locally who breeds BPs sent me this:

[3:40 PM]: all breeders ive talked to say that male can breed at 350 and up. Some can even breed only 49 days old

Here on the forums I read that males should be 500g minimum but 800g is preferred, and that's what I planned on getting Barry up to before breeding him with a few of her females.

We estimated that at about November Barry should be the appropriate weight, but when I told her he weighed 408g today, she said he's ready to breed. But I don't really feel comfy with that.

Can someone chime in on whether or not breeding that early is actually acceptable?

Can they? Sure if they're producing plugs. Should they? In my opinion, no.

Let me caveat by sayin I'm not a breeder, nor have I ever been. Anything less than about 700 grams seems a bit light to me. I don't see the need to rush a male into breeding.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kriwu

But I don't really feel comfy with that.

---

Go with your gut. It's trying to tell you something.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AwBaillie

Can they? Sure if they're producing plugs. Should they? In my opinion, no.

---

^ this. their sex organs have to be mature enough and ready. a good healthy weight is important, but the BP also has got to have the goods. ;)

Sure they can breed at 350 grams, you can also kill them by over breeding them at that weight especially if you have limited experience.

I don't even care about breeding males that small over the last 10 years I have found out that my best breeders were at least 650 grams when being paired, even at that weight you still need to be careful and pay attention to your males.

Sent from my SM-T320 using Tapatalk

I don't see why so many breeders are in such a hurry.
I would ask them about their animal care.
Its not worth the risk, even if its a slim risk.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Slim

Go with your gut. It's trying to tell you something.

---

Thank you!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

I don't see why so many breeders are in such a hurry.
[...]
Its not worth the risk, even if its a slim risk.

---

I completely agree. I immediately turned down their request to breed him right now, but I'm glad I was able to get reassurance that 350 is just too small.

So thank you everyone for your responses!!

Sometimes an "investment" purchase doesn't always pan out as a breeder for the first season you want him to breed.

350g.... how old?

Currently eating regularly?

A few years ago we picked up a 1.0 GHI Mojave who stalled at 350g coincidentally for his first breeding season. It was a tough choice, but we paired him just a few times and it jump-started his eating. It was not our intention to actually breed him at that weight a few years ago, but just to pair him and see if he started eating again. It worked. Now he's a beast taking on the females this season.

The risk you run breeding a small, young male is two fold:

1). He could go off feed and into breeding mode.

2). He could actually breed, and at a young age, his sperm may not be good enough to fertilize your females follicles and eventually get eggs. She could completely slug out, or the eggs could all be infertile.

500g= 2-3 females on a limited basis. Must eat between pairings. 10% weight loss and he does not get paired anymore.

500- 750g= 4-6 females depending on eating habits. 10% weight loss still in play.

750g-1000g+= 6-7 females max depending on eating habits. Some may retain weight even while not eating, but with a 1000g+ breeder I'm pretty OK with him losing 100-150g during breeding season.

Our 1.0 Leopard Clown started the season at ~900g and continued to eat his way to 1050g during the beginning of breeding season. His eating has slowed, but he still sits at 987g seeing 7 females this season. If he dropped back to 900g, I'd probably prioritize his pairings and limit him to 4-5 females.

Just my 2 cents :)

My male is already producing sperm plugs - thought they were worms or something when I first saw them. 362g at last weighing, just a few months old... if I had a female that was to size, I still wouldn't breed him. He's still a baby, himself. I'm most certainly not an experienced breeder... since I've never bred snakes! But I've never encountered any kind of animal that did well when bred very young.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kriwu

But I don't really feel comfy with that.

---

Personally, even if the male was to size and producing plugs, if I didn't feel comfortable with pairing it would be off the table and no amount of peer pressure would budge me. There's a local pet store that is really interested in having local bred BP in their store. They were really excited the last time I was there when they asked about my BP's weights and I told them Blackout was tipping 1400. Then they asked me when I expected eggs from her. I was confused for a moment until I realized they expected me to start pairing her since she's so close to the minimum safe weight. That's just not going to happen until fall, regardless of how much they want local bred snakes.

Think of it this way. If a kid hits puberty at about 12-14 years old, can they breed? Yes. Should they? No.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CD CONSTRICTORS

...

750g-1000g+= 6-7 females max depending on eating habits. Some may retain weight even while not eating, but with a 1000g+ breeder I'm pretty OK with him losing 100-150g during breeding season....

---

I like this answer. I don't care if it's 5 years old I still like it. A good answer is a good answer regardless of how old the thread is.

For those of you who agree with a weight of 1,000 grams for males... Would you continue growing your breeder males past 1,000 grams or just maintenance feed after that point? Is there an advantage to growing males to 1,500 or even more? I see male breeder morphs for sale that weigh >2,000 and Volta's >3,000

The Volta's I could understand coz they don't even start sperm plugs until >1,000. But what about just regular males derived from morphs?

I picked up a male morph 5 weeks ago at 700 grams. Today he is 1,000 grams. I have not fed him consistently. He got a medium rat after 5 days, then another medium again after his 12th day, then a large on the 20th day, then another large on his 35th day with me. (Voracious appetite I believe he would much more than I've offered but it's only September.) I weighed him prior to each feeding - he gained weight regardless of duration; he passes large stools. Fast metabolism with this one. Has shed twice already.

I believe I could get maintenance feed him a medium rat every 15 days. Should I? Rats are not free. I do breed my own but there's still time/cost to raise pups up to medium/large size.

And, the more I feed the more tub changes are needed. What goes in must come out. The more time involved, the more bedding required.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

I don't see why so many breeders are in such a hurry.
I would ask them about their animal care.
Its not worth the risk, even if its a slim risk.

---

Money. That's ultimately the reason.

A lot of breeders are on this perpetual quest to find the next big combo or prove out the latest gene discovery to produce their own world's firsts that they can put up for thousands of dollars a piece.

They can breed, but they need to be carefully monitored and stop pairing if he goes off feed. Fertility is not always as good. I've done it and would do it again but not as a normal thing. Better to have a larger male that can afford to fast and not have dual sired clutches or reabsorbing females. It's a lot like breeding a 1200g female, can it be done, sure. In most circumstances it's better to wait a year though for better results.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nikkubus

... Better to have a larger male that can afford to fast and not have dual sired clutches or reabsorbing females. ...

---

Are you saying that if male of less than optimal size successfully locks with a female then that female may potentially go on to reabsorb? Whereas if locking with a 1,000+ gram male the likelihood of reabsorption would be diminished?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JoeNapoli

Are you saying that if male of less than optimal size successfully locks with a female then that female may potentially go on to reabsorb? Whereas if locking with a 1,000+ gram male the likelihood of reabsorption would be diminished?

---

Not all locks are equal. Sometimes younger males can get a weak lock or miss all together.

But what I was referring to mostly is if he fasts and you have to stop pairing him before you manage to get a lock, and if you don't have a backup male to take his place.