Quality of a ball python

I often see people refer to high quality snakes, but never to a specific snake, only when giving advice in what to look for. This statement has often confounded me, because in my opinion it mostly seems to be based on the personal preference. To further my confusion others seem to know what they are talking about. Obviously there is something that I am missing. I love would love to hear what in your opinion makes a snake high quality. I understand that trying to generalize all ball pythons may be an exercise in futility so if you would like to talk about your favorite morph and tell me what you look for, I would appreciate your input.

To Me a High Quality snake comes from pure Blood lines and Breeders that know what they are doing from the very beginning.

Sent from my SGH-T999

This is a good question. I like to look for things that catch my eye first. To me it depends on the particular morph. For my collection, the main focus is Pieds and YB. For Pieds, I prefer an animal that medium white. Maybe in the 40-60% white range. I like nice contrast and animals that keep that contrast well into adulthood. With the YB genes, I like animals that have a really vibrant, rich color. Some nice blushing and some of the classic yb markers. For some of the darker complex animals, i like them dark. A Black pastel or cinnamon should have a really clean, dark black presentation. I like combos to be clean and the best traits from their genetic make up. Ultimately, I want to enjoy what I'm looking at and working with in my breeding plans. Aside from colors, the animals should look healthy. A relatively short, heavy bodied snake. A well shaped head, no kinks or other deformities of course. I want animals to look like they came from a good place. Where they were cared for properly. That's all.

thank you for the replies. Bigfish your response was very helpful.

Lady I am curious to what you mean by pure bloodlines? Are you referring to snakes other than ball pythons, or is there something that makes a certain line of ball python pure?

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Originally Posted by AntTheDestroyer

I often see people refer to high quality snakes, but never to a specific snake, only when giving advice in what to look for. This statement has often confounded me, because in my opinion it mostly seems to be based on the personal preference. To further my confusion others seem to know what they are talking about. Obviously there is something that I am missing. I love would love to hear what in your opinion makes a snake high quality. I understand that trying to generalize all ball pythons may be an exercise in futility so if you would like to talk about your favorite morph and tell me what you look for, I would appreciate your input.

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Put it this way. If you have 2 pastel ball pythons. One of very high quality, and one of very low quality. 100% of the time you will know which is which. You just know. It's more eye catching.

Now you have some morphs that are visually very normal looking but with subtle differences such as yellow belly. A high quality yellow belly will more prominently display those subtle differences. It should be easily identified if you are familiar with the morph.

Within every morph are the characteristics that identify the morph. Some people prefer certain characteristics to stand out more or occur more and this is where the personal preference comes into play.

I believe the measurement of quality firstly comes from what a majority of people in the hobby like.

Secondly(though more importantly) it comes from what you prefer and want in your animal

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A high quality morph will best embody the traits specific to that morph, and will carry those traits into adulthood, passing them onto their offspring.

A famous judge once said, "I may not be able to define pornography, but I know it when I see it." High quality animals can be a little like that lol.

For me, a high quality animal is what I enjoy and desire about the morph. Some morphs that other rave about are honestly quite uninspiring to me, so I don't see the allure. And sometimes I'm after a morph so bad it becomes a manhunt.

I see high quality as clean, high contrast, that appeals to you as a keeper.

beauty is in the eye of the beholder, after all.

For me, a HQ animal is healthy, shows no sign of struggling to thrive (if husbandry is correct) and progresses and grows like it should! To me, that says that the breeder knew what they were doing and were putting the health of the animal before anything else. I know there are a lot of people out there who will attempt pairings that could possibly result in deformed/unhealthy offspring, so to me, folks who don't do that produce high quality animals. Also, someone mentioned "pure blood lines" earlier in the thread, and I honestly don't know what they're talking about... unless they mean animals that aren't crossbreeds of different species? Otherwise, I don't think it's possible to discern what a "pure" bloodline looks like... unless an animal is VERY heavily inbred, and that raises some ethics questions, even though inbreeding in the reptile community is extremely prevalent and (often times) necessary for producing designer morphs.

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Originally Posted by keebs

I don't think it's possible to discern what a "pure" bloodline looks like... unless an animal is VERY heavily inbred, and that raises some ethics questions, even though inbreeding in the reptile community is extremely prevalent and (often times) necessary for producing designer morphs.

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A couple important things to keep in mind:

1) The term "Pure Bloodline" has little applicability in this discussion, unless you're talking about a specific line of morph like a TSK or VPI line of Axnthic. We're talking about the best example of a particular morph, not the possibility of hybridism sneaking into an Enchi Lesser.

2) Line breeding in reptiles is quite different than inbreeding in warm blooded animals. Line breeding is an accepted practice in the reptile community, and takes place in nature at every little isolated pond and water hole on the planet.

Obviously health is a given, now if we talk about mutation's quality it is really in the eye of the beholder.

Some people will like reduced pattern over busy one for example, it also can be about blushing and contrast, ultimately what might appeal to one person may not appeal to the next one, the great thing is that with patience you can find the animal that is the definition of high quality based on YOUR own criteria of high quality.

To me quality applies to a few categories;
How true to the morph it is (what it looks like compared to your idea of what you look for in that morph)
How healthy the animal is (should be a given but not always)
Size of the animal compared to its age (not power fed or under fed)
Feeding response (an animal that has the best of the other categories but fails at this one is a deal breaker for me, picky or poor eaters are the worst IMO)
There are probably other things I look for but cant think of at the moment but those are the big ones for me.

Yes, health and feeding response are the two of the biggest concerns I have when buying a snake. Feeding response and weight are well defined attributes that should be a given when purchasing an animal. My original intention of this thread was to understand what attributes pertaining to an animals appearance make them high quality, but I am not opposed to adding to discussion with what you should look for health wise.

I am really enjoying everyone's responses and think that this will good help for me and any other member new to ball python morphs. The one question I have thus far is there a source that has a good description of at least a good number of morph phenotypes?

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Originally Posted by AntTheDestroyer

is there a source that has a good description of at least a good number of morph phenotypes?

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http://ball-pythons.net/forums/forum...-Python-Morphs

:gj:

For me a good quality animal, is of proper size and weight for its age, and has a good feeding responce. The second thing i look at is it a good example of the morph i want. I like morphfs with bright clean colors,I don't care if the pattern is busy or not, as long as it is clean. Basicly its whats attractive to you, as long as its a healthy specimen.

Although "high quality" is mainly subjective, most would agree that the multi gene morphs phenotypically fall into this category. Especially a large number of the newer multi gene animals. 3 and 4 gene gene morphs. High quality including the potential a animal has for enhancing a established collection. :cool:

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Originally Posted by Albert Clark

most would agree that the multi gene morphs phenotypically fall into this category. Especially a large number of the newer multi gene animals. 3 and 4 gene gene morphs

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I've seen plenty of examples of 3 and 4 bang ball pythons they were not high quality animals. The presence of multiple genes does NOT guarantee a quality result.

You can't make chicken salad out of chicken....well, you get the point.

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Originally Posted by Slim

I've seen plenty of examples of 3 and 4 bang ball pythons they were not high quality animals. The presence of multiple genes does NOT guarantee a quality result.

You can't make chicken salad out of chicken....well, you get the point.

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That's where the subjective part comes into play.

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Originally Posted by Albert Clark

That's where the subjective part comes into play.

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Of course, with all this being said, my favorite ball python of all time was a sweetheart to interact with, ate like a champ, and was a long time ambassador for all things slithery...and just happened to be a browned out Pastel that that most people wouldn't have looked twice at if it were on an expo table.

the quality is subjective for every morphs but there are points quite clear for every one. On the morphology , a strong head shape and a not too long body. the color contrast are appreciate and the absence of noise. Patterns are more subjective as said above busy or reduce.
I will talk about the morph i work with and what quality is for me :

Pastel : vibrant yellow, dark black, blushing or none depend on hat i want to breed with, doesn t brown out ( in my dream), no noise. I prefer the lemon pastel line ( NERD)

cinnamon: nice donuts , rich brown color with irridecence, no noise, no blushing, mostly prefer light version over the dark one but in combo with banana i will chose the darkest version.

Black pastel : contrary to cinnamon i like them super dark, busy , black back , blushed on the sides except for banana combos.

Enchi: reduced in pattern , without dots, golden color,

fire: absence of noise is the most important thing about fire , that noise will pollute the combos. dark or light depending on the combos targetted. Cream color one give more fade out combos which can be a problem specially paired with YB.

YB: this is probably the most interesting morph to judge: In my understanding, YBs are not just blushing bringers they also unlight combos and influence a bit the patterns as well. As single gene animal i prefer light , super blushed and absent noise animals with no dots in aliens head. But in combos , It s not that simple. I made bettter ivories with dark YBs, firefly YBs are more beautiful from dark YBs and not so blushed. But with HGW and Enchi i will chose extreme blushed and light YBs. This is one of the morph that is very common but not well understood because the interactions with other morphs are not easily predictable.
Last year I hatched 3 firefly OD YB. From the same male fire dreambee to 2 different females super pastel YB. All 3 are completely different even the 2 from the same mum. IT could be the difference in the pastel gene as it was both superpastel but i think it s the interaction with the fire that is very random, sometimes the fire destroys the YB belly and sides marking and sometimes it s the contrary. I doing the same pairing again this year if none of those 2 boys want to breed mum to have more of those and understand it better. The hatchling girl is so wash out that if the father had pastel i will for sure said she was a superfly YB OD.

banana: darker and darker because it problably the morph that aged the worst along side with pastel.

Specter: well , i just start understanding that i produce fullstripes out of every of my specters to every of my YBs... now 30% including pastel SS.So in that case i understand nothing. But outside of the SS projects i chose light and bright colored animals with a clean pattern a not so much noise. I don t have super clean one and i think this morph had never been worked in term of quality as a single base morph because of the oubvious SS project. But it s a mistake and i think it worth to make clean and reduce animals .... The whole YB complex never been bred outside those stripe snake prized and that why reduced and clean Specter, Spark, gravel and asphalt are so rare... because they are the random indesirable product of SS, Puma, highway, freeway....

Lesser/butter: i like super reduce one , no dots , dark colors but rich as they lighten up when they aged. Some go orange ( my favorites) others go kind of greenish.

Trick: super dark, super busy pattern, heavy belly markings.

Desert ghost: rich creamy colors that will become grey over the years, deep ghosty black, reduce pattern no dots, deep head stamp. no blushing at all.

Spider: contrast animals, strong black marking single dorsal stripe, absence of white or very high white on the sides. light colors almost caramel.

OD: dark head, dark black, reduce pattern like super large banding, rich orange with no brown scales.

Now i will talk about few combos i understands a little:

Bumblebee: bright yellow, no brown scales or few, dark black web, high white, no dots.

killerbee: bright yellow, dark grey web, No white or high white on the sides, no dots.

black widow: no brown scales, no dots , rich greyish color, deep grey / black web,

black pewter: dark colors, clean donuts, no blushing, low white sides, no brown scales,no dots.

Pastel enchi: reduce pattern , no dots, black back banding. rich yellow goldish, no brown scales, no blushing.

blue eyes leucy: Pure white, no yellowish back , no greyish head and neck marking.

pastel YB: bright yellow, high blushing or none, deep black, reduce banding pattern. no brown scales, no dots.

Super pastel: blushed head stamp, rich vivid yellow, not too fade out black pattern. no dots. no brown scales. high blushing or none.

Hope that helps. just my preferences.

Wow Dark Ranger, thanks for typing that all out. That is really helpful and descriptive.