Keeping eco earth moist?!

Hi everyone. I need some tips for keeping eco earth really moist. I bought the loose bags, not bricks, and I'm having a lot of trouble. I just got a baby Hermann's tortoise today and I find I have to mist the stuff 10x a day and it still dries out after an hour. I've posted on a few tortoise forums and haven't gotten any help so I am coming to you for some tips.

I have the baby in a 50 gallon rubbermaid. Substrate is eco earth mixed with cypress mulch. The lamp is a 100watt MVB and I know that's what is drying the substrate out but I need the bulb. My tortoise needs 70% humidity. I'm lucky if I can keep it at 50-60% (it's 30% under the bulb) and humidity with tortoises is CRUCIAL. I don't want to risk pyramiding or dehydration. I plan to soak once a day for 15-20 mins. I do have a humid hide filled with moss but Hermann's like to burrow and they need moist substrate for it.

It's recommended that the eco earth be mixed with topsoil but there is no additive free topsoil I can find in Canada right now. Gardening isn't very popular during Canadian winters. Once spring hits, I'll be able to do that but I need solutions for now. Do you guys have any tips on how to keep this stuff moist? Should I take it out, soak it with water and add it back in? I just don't want to upset the little one too much =\

I sometimes pour water directly onto my substrate then mix it by hand until I get the desired moisture level.


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Originally Posted by gaitedappy

I sometimes pour water directly onto my substrate then mix it by hand until I get the desired moisture level.


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I tried that after I first dumped the eco earth in but it didn't seem to soak any water up at all =\ I poured a lot of water in... Maybe I got bad bags lol

It could also be the brick-bag advice doesn't work well. But that's a little odd especially with the cypress....


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Originally Posted by gaitedappy

It could also be the brick-bag advice doesn't work well. But that's a little odd especially with the cypress....


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I thought it was odd, too. I use the cypress with my brb and it holds humidity just fine for her. I guess my mercury vapour bulb is just zapping all of the moisture.

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Originally Posted by hazzaram

I thought it was odd, too. I use the cypress with my brb and it holds humidity just fine for her. I guess my mercury vapour bulb is just zapping all of the moisture.

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That could be it, but I use the brick mixed with cypress for my bps and one of them has a CHE and her humidity is usually okay. I do leave extra moss in the back and corners of the cage on top though. That might help.


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Here are some thoughts. Ditch the mercury vapor bulb and get a lower wattage flood bulb from a hardware store. Here is an example for comparison. A 35 Watt flood bulb (PAR 30) from 10 in away give me a 115F basking spot for my Tegu. Get a fluorescent fixture (T5HO) to provide UVB, that will help with killing the humidity. In addition I was going to suggest topsoil until I re read your post. Quite honestly you could dig up some dirt from your backyard and mix that in, it is pretty common practice in the large lizard community. If you are uncomfortable with that look for some DG (decomposed granite) at a hardware store and mix that in with your substrate that should help give it some moisture retention, plus when you do get topsoil you can just add it to what you already have.

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Originally Posted by jclaiborne

Here are some thoughts. Ditch the mercury vapor bulb and get a lower wattage flood bulb from a hardware store. Here is an example for comparison. A 35 Watt flood bulb (PAR 30) from 10 in away give me a 115F basking spot for my Tegu. Get a fluorescent fixture (T5HO) to provide UVB, that will help with killing the humidity. In addition I was going to suggest topsoil until I re read your post. Quite honestly you could dig up some dirt from your backyard and mix that in, it is pretty common practice in the large lizard community. If you are uncomfortable with that look for some DG (decomposed granite) at a hardware store and mix that in with your substrate that should help give it some moisture retention, plus when you do get topsoil you can just add it to what you already have.

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Grounds pretty frozen. I don't think I could dig any up. I can come spring time, lol.

Well, the thing is that I'm building a big 7 foot wooden enclosure for the tort. I already have a lot of the supplies for it, including a very large RHP that is going to span the top. But, I can use a flood bulb and fluorescent fixture in that. They're just so expensive! I'll have to save up for them. The fixture I had for my beardie was a T8 and 10.0 Reptisun bulb and it cost $127 with shipping. Gotta save up for that a little bit, lol. The little guy just has to be in this rubbermaid until it's finished.

I think tomorrow when I give him a bath, I'm going to take the top layer out and mix it up with water and readd it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hazzaram

Hi everyone. I need some tips for keeping eco earth really moist. I bought the loose bags, not bricks, and I'm having a lot of trouble. I just got a baby Hermann's tortoise today and I find I have to mist the stuff 10x a day and it still dries out after an hour. I've posted on a few tortoise forums and haven't gotten any help so I am coming to you for some tips.

I have the baby in a 50 gallon rubbermaid. Substrate is eco earth mixed with cypress mulch. The lamp is a 100watt MVB and I know that's what is drying the substrate out but I need the bulb. My tortoise needs 70% humidity. I'm lucky if I can keep it at 50-60% (it's 30% under the bulb) and humidity with tortoises is CRUCIAL. I don't want to risk pyramiding or dehydration. I plan to soak once a day for 15-20 mins. I do have a humid hide filled with moss but Hermann's like to burrow and they need moist substrate for it.

It's recommended that the eco earth be mixed with topsoil but there is no additive free topsoil I can find in Canada right now. Gardening isn't very popular during Canadian winters. Once spring hits, I'll be able to do that but I need solutions for now. Do you guys have any tips on how to keep this stuff moist? Should I take it out, soak it with water and add it back in? I just don't want to upset the little one too much =\

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-When I soak my eco earth in my Crestie cage it holds a lot of water, it just clumps at first until I work it in by hand. As long as the water is not pooling at the bottom it is still soaking up water. Misting it once it dies out is not going to replenish the moisture it has lost, you basically wetting the top layer.
-Are you measuring the humidity on the middle of the tub or in the hide?
-You can add a piece of slate or other flat stone under the heat lamp so it radiates off the rock and not sucking moisture out of the substrate. Not sure if the lamp is directed to one side of the tub.
-You can increase the size of the humid box to a third of the tub to have a larger area to remain humidity in. * I assume that it is an open top tub like a tortoise table?
- Increase the depth of the substrate on the side with the humid hide.
hope you find a solution, I am spoiled over here in Cali being able to keep my Russians outside.

When I use cocofiber for my frogs (they need about 80% humidity) I expand it- or soak it, if it's the bags- so that it naturally forms clumps, and holds together when you squeeze it lightly in your hand. It usually holds its moisture pretty well, and that's in a tank and not a rubbermaid... Could you mix wet sphagnum moss in with the substrate? I used to do that for my box turtle, but she has such a horrible habit of eating bedding that I've had to remove anything that could be an impaction risk.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hazzaram

Grounds pretty frozen. I don't think I could dig any up. I can come spring time, lol.

Well, the thing is that I'm building a big 7 foot wooden enclosure for the tort. I already have a lot of the supplies for it, including a very large RHP that is going to span the top. But, I can use a flood bulb and fluorescent fixture in that. They're just so expensive! I'll have to save up for them. The fixture I had for my beardie was a T8 and 10.0 Reptisun bulb and it cost $127 with shipping. Gotta save up for that a little bit, lol. The little guy just has to be in this rubbermaid until it's finished.

I think tomorrow when I give him a bath, I'm going to take the top layer out and mix it up with water and readd it.

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Dang!! $127for a T8 bulb and fixture??!!! I use a Reptisun 10.0 T5 HO for my beardie and it runs me $18 for the bulb and I picked up a 22" T5 fixture from my local grow shop for like $20. I used to use Zoo Med MVB and also Mega Ray MVBs and honestly, I wasn't that impressed. I ended up going back to UVB tubes and just using a Spot light for the heat lamp.

I used to use Eco Earth for my snakes a long time ago and I got rid of that stuff. To me it wasn't worth it. Like you said, it dries out pretty quick unless you got something like a PVC cage or something that will hold the humidity well. And once it dries out, it becomes dusty. Not to mention it gets everywhere and sticks to everything.

I probably wouldn't use a RHP for a tortoise as they are day animals and need the lighting like beardies. If you are making a pen, I would make him a sleeping box and also a humidity box where you can put a top on it and put down cypress with some moss so it stays more or less sealed and humid. That way the tortoise can go in there if he wants lots of humidity. I believe most tortoises dig underground in dirt when they want lots of humidity thus the humid box built onto the tortoise pen. So he would have his normal humidity "playing" area, his "bedroom" for sleeping and the "sauna" room.

If your using open top setups your going to be fighting a constant battle with moisture. And don't be afraid to dump water in, sometimes it takes a bit for it to soak in, but as long as you don't have standing water in the bottom after an hour or so your fine. To give an idea, one of my green tree python cages has an 18"×36" floor, and I usually have to add at least a gallon once a week, if not a little more. But this is also a well sealed cage, and I don't mist much.

Thank you everyone for all your replies and tips!!


Aztec4mia - Thank you. I actually took everything out of the bin today and poured a whole bunch of water in and mixed it up by hand. I don't think I poured nearly enough into it the first time I did it. Now it's moist and dark in colour. I'm hoping this fixes most of the problem.

I'm measuring humidity down by the substrate because my tort is so little. I wanted readings where he/she is. I'm measuring all over. Under the basking light and on the 'cooler' side.


I might have to get a piece of slate or something like that. I need to make a trip out to the hardware store to find a piece. I think that'll help.


My tort oddly doesn't seem to like the humid hide? He/she doesn't use it all all. He spends his time hidden in the plants and uses that as a hide instead. At night, he buries down into the substrate and hides that way. I guess Hermann's are known for burying themselves. I think he'll do better now that the substrate underneath is nice and moist.


DVirginiana - I might try mixing sphagnum moss in. The problem I find with moss is that it molds so quick. I had to stop using it in my brb's enclosure for that reason. But I'll definitely try! I'm not sure if he'll try and eat it, though. He's a little piggy.



Sauzo - Yeah, Canadian prices are crazy. I used to go shopping in the States (I live in a border city) because everything is much better priced but our dollar is pretty much useless so there's no point now.



I'm thinking about switching to the tube fixtures for the big, 7 foot enclosure I'm making. I just hate the prices, lol.


I was only planning to use the RHP to boost the ambient. He'll still have a basking spot, plus I'll probably add in a Reptisun tube for the UV. I'm just worried about keeping the air warm enough for him. I will keep that in mind. I might just switch to a sleeping and humidity box.


Darkbird - It's not an open top. It's a rubbermaid with a hole cut in it just big enough for the lamp. Most of it is covered.

I think my problem was that I was too afraid to just dump water in. I was fed up and I did that today. I took everything out (including the baby torty) and just dumped buckets of water in and mixed it all by hand. It seems much, MUCH better already!! The new cage I'm building for him is 7 feet long and it's enclosed so I know that will hold the humidity alright.

Thought I'd add some pics for you guys :) Keep in mind, this is only temporary until the end of Feb and then he'll be in a big, roomy 7 foot long enclosure.

http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/...pswwolgr29.jpg


http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/...psj5zbd50v.jpg

http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/...psxjnv0hwv.jpg


He/she doesn't look like it, but he's only 2 inches long!
http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/...psuz3exo6f.jpg

http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/...psc2dilyb6.jpg