Racks vs Cages

so, i just ordered my 2nd ball python, and have had my other ball python in a 20 gallon till he was a year old and now he is in a 50 gallon and i spent 400 dollars for it and all of the accesories. So, i was thinking, since i all ready have a 20 gallon i will put her in her in till she is a year, then this is where i start thinking, because i could spend400 dollars for another cage and have to make room for it, or buy this rack system,http://www.reptilebasics.com/iris-cb-70-rack, and sell the cages, what do you guys thing, should i go with racks or cages, what are the pros and cons of each? And if i go racks, how much could i sell a 50 gallon exo terra terrarium with all of the accsesories and a 20 gallon with all of the accessories, thanks.

I'm starting to look for my 2nd bp and this same question.

For 2 snakes - I was thinking a T8 from animal plastics with the divider, lights, flexwatt, rhp's on both sides, etc... everything in total was going to be about $600.


I've now changed my plans and will be picking up some pvc sheeting to build my own rack. I can build my own rack, with heat, tubs, hides, water bowls, and thermostat (enough to house 6 snakes for now) for about $300.



I've been trying to read up on drawbacks of using a rack, and the only thing I've seen people have issues with is ambient temps if your rack is in a really cool room in your house. If the room temps are below 70, depending on how and how much flexwatt you use, and tub size, you *MIGHT* need some other heat. I've seen several ideas for how to do this, but some people say it's not needed, as the tubs hold heat fairly well. Still, it will likely still be less than a cage setup. I think if I knew I would never have more than two snakes, I'd stick with a cage like the T8. If you plan on having 3, or 4, or 30, then cost per snake will probably decrease greatly with a rack system.

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Originally Posted by LittleTreeGuy

I'm starting to look for my 2nd bp and this same question.

For 2 snakes - I was thinking a T8 from animal plastics with the divider, lights, flexwatt, rhp's on both sides, etc... everything in total was going to be about $600.


I've now changed my plans and will be picking up some pvc sheeting to build my own rack. I can build my own rack, with heat, tubs, hides, water bowls, and thermostat (enough to house 6 snakes for now) for about $300.



I've been trying to read up on drawbacks of using a rack, and the only thing I've seen people have issues with is ambient temps if your rack is in a really cool room in your house. If the room temps are below 70, depending on how and how much flexwatt you use, and tub size, you *MIGHT* need some other heat. I've seen several ideas for how to do this, but some people say it's not needed, as the tubs hold heat fairly well. Still, it will likely still be less than a cage setup. I think if I knew I would never have more than two snakes, I'd stick with a cage like the T8. If you plan on having 3, or 4, or 30, then cost per snake will probably decrease greatly with a rack system.

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Yeah, i understand about the fact that i only have 2 snakes, but what about if i want another, and i already am almost out of room in my room because i already have a29 gallon fishtank, a leopard gecko and my 2 bps, and also my lovely rabbit

Maybe it's just me, but I feel like BPs deserve a better and richer environment than just a rack type of home. I enjoy being able to see my angels exploring, climbing, basking, and hiding. It also allows me to keep an eye on them without disturbing them (to monitor temps and humidity). I prefer the large tanks because they are also more aesthetically pleasing. Of course not everyone agrees and some people are fine with stuffing snakes in drawers (lol), but I think they deserve better than that. Just my two cents. :oops:

My ball pythons didn't start taking f/t with any kind of regularity until I put them in a rack system. I think they feel more secure, the humdity is easier to control, the belly heat is a big plus. Also a lot easier to clean. I have hides inside the tubs so they aren't just sitting in just a tub with no where to go. The only down side is I have to take them out to view/enjoy them.

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Originally Posted by piedlover79

My ball pythons didn't start taking f/t with any kind of regularity until I put them in a rack system. I think they feel more secure, the humdity is easier to control, the belly heat is a big plus. Also a lot easier to clean. I have hides inside the tubs so they aren't just sitting in just a tub with no where to go. The only down side is I have to take them out to view/enjoy them.

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I take my BP out a lot, and in his 50 gallon cage, the only good thing about it is it looks good. Now that's he is older and fat he kinda just sits in his hide almost 24-7 and I only see him out after I get him out and put him back in and he hasn't gone back into his hide. And the rack I am looking at has 3 tubs and heat tape, and since I have 2 ball pythons, I can use 2/3 and use the third for extra storage or for if I get another BP.

It all depends on your preference, funds and space.

I like terrariums because I like observing my animals (more like empty enclosures lol) and having esthetically pleasing homes for them (I own 5 snakes btw). Others like racks because you can fit more snakes into a place that doesn't take a lot of space.

Here's my current setup:
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...5c28c77700.jpg


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I have a very very small space, so I use racks. Build up, not out. Besides, who ever stops at just two? that like saying you only want two cookies. Good intentions, but almost never work.

When my wife and I first started collecting we used tanks too.
When we got 10 balls reality set in and we decided it was time to make a smart move to a couple racks.
Could you imagine?? Who in their right mind would have over 50 snakes in tanks........

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Originally Posted by Mr. Misha

It all depends on your preference, funds and space.

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This is a big part of it...

If I had unlimited funds, I would probably just buy fully decked out T8's and have a few stacks of them 6 high... I have the room, but not the money. In the wild, BP's live in termite mounds and old burrows... so the small, cramped, tight, dark spaces is closer to their natural habitat. That being said, I like being able to see inside the cage as well on the off times my BP does come out of her hide. If only I had hit the powerball last night... lol

ball pythons are naturally found living inside of termite mounds, and would rarely see the surface. If you were to keep them in viewable enclosures, the hides would be of most importance to reduce stress in the animals. In which case, yes you will be looking at a pretty tank that you snake would likely only explore during the night time hours. So does having that big spacious enclosure make sense?

Well, since we enjoy relating animals to humans instead of the other way around, we think that the animal would feel more comfortable in such an exhibit. However, the truth rests somewhere in the middle. Because of the very nature of ball pythons, most if not all, thrive inside a tub enclosure - it's secure, its dark, and can hold humidity extremely well. Inside a larger display, your animals may feel more vulnerable, stop eating, stress, lose weight, or they may thrive and be active all the time. It can come down to a per snake basis, but by and large most folks notice the best result in a rack style system.

Now, don't let our friends in Europe read this, or we may get the good ole "poor americans torture animals in racks" speech like they do in the retic community, helodermia community, and ball python community. . . sigh.

I personally think it is preference, space and money combined. I have snakes both in tanks and in a rack. I like the rack much more as most of my snakes are now in one small area of my home and i don't have a bunch of tubs or tanks everywhere (which my fiance hates). It also is cheaper than purchasing 16 more tanks along with full accessories. I now can get a new snake and (after quarantine) house him for around $6. That is purchasing a tub and water bowl. My rack cost me around $300 to build vs around $200 (very basic starter setup) x 16 = $3200 for tanks! :puke2:I honestly couldn't afford to house my new additions last year in anything else. So for me Racks all the way even though there is nothing wrong with tanks in my opinion :).

I just did the math, and if i got a rack, instead of another cage, then I would save a little more than 100 dollars for the if I got a rack, then save a little more than 70 dollars for a thermostat, because if I had cages then I would have to get the herpestat 2 as opposed to the 1 since there is only one thing being heated as opposed to 2, and I would also have room for another snake as the rack j am looking at holds 3 adult ball pythons. I think the rack will be the way to go once my Firebee is an adult. And I can make some money and sell the 50 gallon for like 200$.

So I did some looking around and I found another type of rack for 195 dollars instead of 300 dollars. But it doesn't include bins and it has 40 dollar shipping. And the 300 dollar one includes bins and free shipping. They both include heating. What are the pros and cons of each. If I go with the 195 dollar one then I would have to spend 40 dollars worth of shipping and bins so they would both be about the same price. Also, what is better, belly heating or back heating. Here are the links for the two.
195$ http://www.apcages.com/home/Iris/cb70.htm
300$ http://www.reptilebasics.com/iris-cb-70-rack

From what I've "heard", some peole like back/side heat for smaller snakes. Some say that as long as the snake is kept in mid-high 80 degrees all the time, it's sufficient. Others really like a hot spot with one area being around 90 degrees. I have heard good things about both of the vendors you posted. I'd say it comes down to what you like best and what you want to go with. I doubt one is really superior to the other, but maybe someone with experience in one or both of the products will chime in.

I use both back and belly thought I also heat the room.
Next couple racks I make are going to be only back heat just because it is easier.
They do not need to have belly heat.

I just finished this rack in anticipation of more BPs in the future.

http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/p...pszcwabavb.jpg
As you can see though, I have cages as well. Both have their advantages. Personally I like seeing my snakes from time to time. Although I don't feel the snakes in the rack will be neglected, I probably won't interact with them as much. It'll be nice to get those tubs off the top of my display rack though. Gotta finish building the rest of those too. Only 4 more to go!

Dave

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Originally Posted by O'Mathghamhna

Maybe it's just me, but I feel like BPs deserve a better and richer environment than just a rack type of home. I enjoy being able to see my angels exploring, climbing, basking, and hiding. It also allows me to keep an eye on them without disturbing them (to monitor temps and humidity). I prefer the large tanks because they are also more aesthetically pleasing. Of course not everyone agrees and some people are fine with stuffing snakes in drawers (lol), but I think they deserve better than that. Just my two cents. :oops:

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I have noticed bp's raised in racks (the ones we have purchased from breeders) tend to stress and strike at the glass for quite a while. Not being able too see out of their cage for so long then all of the sudden having a front row seat to a world much larger than their own takes some adjusting. Once adjusted they do great, they don't even stay in their hides all the time.

I can't help to think the lack of stimulus leaves something to be desired but to each his/her own.

This is beautiful!! If you don't mind me asking, where did you find these pieces?

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Originally Posted by reptileexperts

ball pythons are naturally found living inside of termite mounds, and would rarely see the surface. If you were to keep them in viewable enclosures, the hides would be of most importance to reduce stress in the animals. In which case, yes you will be looking at a pretty tank that you snake would likely only explore during the night time hours. So does having that big spacious enclosure make sense?

Well, since we enjoy relating animals to humans instead of the other way around, we think that the animal would feel more comfortable in such an exhibit. However, the truth rests somewhere in the middle. Because of the very nature of ball pythons, most if not all, thrive inside a tub enclosure - it's secure, its dark, and can hold humidity extremely well. Inside a larger display, your animals may feel more vulnerable, stop eating, stress, lose weight, or they may thrive and be active all the time. It can come down to a per snake basis, but by and large most folks notice the best result in a rack style system.

Now, don't let our friends in Europe read this, or we may get the good ole "poor americans torture animals in racks" speech like they do in the retic community, helodermia community, and ball python community. . . sigh.

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Very well put. My babies have large hides on both sides of their tanks, plus vegetation, and driftwood. So there's lots of security offered while also giving them room to stretch out (which they do frequently) and explore. Very rarely do I find them tightly coiled or hiding their heads. They eat well, have very even and calm dispositions, and are thriving quite well! As you stated, it's probably best to judge this on a "per snake" basis. Mine are in a very quiet room and I check on them a few times a day (quietly) so there's minimal disturbance to them. I just love it, and for me personally it brings me great joy to furnish their big tanks with fun things for them to explore and hide in. ;)

While rack/tub systems are certainly not harmful to the snakes, and they do serve some great purposes, I just can't help but feel like they foster the whole "snake collection" mentality, as opposed to the "these are living sentient beings who deserve enrichment and variety," just as they would have in the wild. Does that make sense? But as you stated, perhaps it's the side of me that personifies snakes with human emotion. Anyway, to each their own!:snake:

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

When my wife and I first started collecting we used tanks too.
When we got 10 balls reality set in and we decided it was time to make a smart move to a couple racks.
Could you imagine?? Who in their right mind would have over 50 snakes in tanks........

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How on Earth do you have time to care for over 50 snakes?? Just the two of you?:bow:

I get my ball pythons out almost daily so they wouldnt really be neglected if they were in racks.

Perfect, then you shouldn't have any problems!

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Originally Posted by O'Mathghamhna

Perfect, then you shouldn't have any problems!

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I've also had my male bp for almost 2 years and when he was a juvenile he would explore, but know that he is older I isn't really exploring. He just chills in his warm side hide 24-7.

This is the 50 gallon cage my one BP is currently in, and since I am serious about racks now I will plan on selling it. What do you guys think it's worth. It would come with everything in the picture except for the snake and bedding.

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a2...sanmfv2ku.jpeg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a2...smryspvfu.jpeg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a2...sufbiasu5.jpeg

So I brought the idea up about racks to my dad, he seems okay with it, so I am pretty much 95% getting a rack in the future. But, until I get a rack, and since my new Firebee isn't here yet, I was thinking, to reduce the stress as much as possable for her, to buy a 16 quart bin with a UTH on a thermostat and put tape or something around the edges so she can't see out and have her in that until I get the rack. Would this be okay. I'm trying to represent a rack as much as possable without allready having one.

I think as long as you monitor your temps and humidity closely, that should be fine.

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Originally Posted by Clay Yingling

This is the 50 gallon cage my one BP is currently in, and since I am serious about racks now I will plan on selling it. What do you guys think it's worth. It would come with everything in the picture except for the snake and bedding.

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a2...sanmfv2ku.jpeg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a2...smryspvfu.jpeg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a2...sufbiasu5.jpeg

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Beautiful setup! You will have to name your own price. I've seen some people sell setups like the one above including everything for as little as $100-$150, although it is all worth much more than that. So it just depends on what you're comfortable with.