Trying to figure out a feeding schedule...

Hi Gang,

I've had 3 successful feedings with my baby ball now. Last time he ate was last wed. I decided to stop at the pet shop and pick up a mouse on the way home, just to see if he was hungry. It's only been 5 days but I figure I would try. The baby mice they had seemed a little big but I thought I would try it.

The instant I put the mouse in the tank BOOM! He ate the thing instantly and fit it down his throat rather easily!

This is the FIRST time he has eaten the moment I put the mouse in....does this mean he is hungry? Should I offer another mouse tomorrow? I'm assuming this is a great sign that he is now comfy in his new home...

Anyways, just wanted everyone's thoughts on this.

You didn't say how big your baby was, but I'd feed what I would
Consider a baby every 5 days.

As yodawagon said, it depends on the snake and prey. If you are weighing the snake and prey, it should be around 10-15% of the snakes body weight. If you're going by size, the diameter of the prey should be close to that of your snake, or maybe a tad larger... so that it gives a light bulge in the snakes belly. Not too much. If you're feeding prey around this size/weight, I would not feed any more often than every 5 days. Maybe that's just me... but I think that is plenty to keep a healthy snake.

Then again, if your "baby" is 300 grams, and you're feeding it a fuzzy mouse, it's going to be hungry all the time as that isn't sufficient food for the snakes size.

Where can I buy a weight scale?

Target, Walmart, ebay, etc....

I would only get digital. You want it to go up to at least 2000g, if not 5000g (for big girls).


Here is one from eBay....
http://www.ebay.com/itm/7Kg-15lbs-x-...8AAOSwnDZT~VqK

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Originally Posted by ArabianOak

Hi Gang,

I've had 3 successful feedings with my baby ball now. Last time he ate was last wed. I decided to stop at the pet shop and pick up a mouse on the way home, just to see if he was hungry. It's only been 5 days but I figure I would try. The baby mice they had seemed a little big but I thought I would try it.

The instant I put the mouse in the tank BOOM! He ate the thing instantly and fit it down his throat rather easily!

This is the FIRST time he has eaten the moment I put the mouse in....does this mean he is hungry? Should I offer another mouse tomorrow? I'm assuming this is a great sign that he is now comfy in his new home...

Anyways, just wanted everyone's thoughts on this.

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When you say, "baby mice" what exactly do you mean?

A BP hatchling right out of the egg can take a mouse hopper. They move to adults within a few weeks.

Don't be overly excited to feed frequently.

If your snake has not digested and passed its previous meal, you are feeding too soon.

If the meal makes a slight, but noticeable lump after its fed, you have the right sized prey.

Your snake should eat, digest and eliminate its food in a very predictable manner. Wait until the full process is complete before feeding again.

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Originally Posted by Gio

Wait until the full process is complete before feeding again.

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I have to disagree with this. Every snake is different. I have one that will eliminate every 3 days like clockwork and another that only goes once every 3 feedings. There is no need to wait for them to eliminate between feedings.


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Originally Posted by SmoothScales

I have to disagree with this. Every snake is different. I have one that will eliminate every 3 days like clockwork and another that only goes once every 3 feedings. There is no need to wait for them to eliminate between feedings.

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Right and wrong......
Hatchlings can be fed more often because they are trying to grow BUT any snake fed too often is just going to blow it out the other end.
If you weigh your snakes more often you can actually see this happen.
I weigh mine weekly before I feed and when I see an animal pooping every week or two and hovering at the same weight it was a couple weeks ago I know everything going in is also coming right out and is wasted.
When this happens, I cut back on either size or skip a week.

I use to and still do believe in offering till they refuse but not so much once they get around the 700ish gram mark.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SmoothScales

I have to disagree with this. Every snake is different. I have one that will eliminate every 3 days like clockwork and another that only goes once every 3 feedings. There is no need to wait for them to eliminate between feedings.


Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk

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I have to disagree as well. My ball python might eat three or four times before pooping. If I Fed mine only after it pooped out the previous it be the size of a pencil and not growing at all.

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

Right and wrong......
Hatchlings can be fed more often because they are trying to grow BUT any snake fed too often is just going to blow it out the other end.
If you weigh your snakes more often you can actually see this happen.
I weigh mine weekly before I feed and when I see an animal pooping every week or two and hovering at the same weight it was a couple weeks ago I know everything going in is also coming right out and is wasted.
When this happens, I cut back on either size or skip a week.

I use to and still do believe in offering till they refuse but not so much once they get around the 700ish gram mark.

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I have to disagree with this line of thought. We know that there are many different factors that can affect the gastrointestinal efficiency in snakes. Level of hydration, fluctuations in barometric pressure, stress levels and varying genetic profiles all play a role in metabolic and digestive capacity and rate.

Also, nothing is 'wasted' when eaten. Anything a snake eats is going to be digested, broken down and have the nutrients absorbed. Even if you stuff a snake full of mice they are all going to be utilized eventually.

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Originally Posted by JoshSloane

Also, nothing is 'wasted' when eaten. Anything a snake eats is going to be digested, broken down and have the nutrients absorbed. Even if you stuff a snake full of mice they are all going to be utilized eventually.

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Point missed......
You can overfeed to the point it is wasted.

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

Point missed......
You can overfeed to the point it is wasted.

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No. What do you mean by wasted? Are you saying that the extra prey item holds no nutritional value?

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Originally Posted by JoshSloane

No. What do you mean by wasted? Are you saying that the extra prey item holds no nutritional value?

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I am saying crap out the back or fat in the middle....... either is waste so yes.

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

I am saying crap out the back of fat in the middle....... either is waste so yes.

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Uh what?

Was trying to edit my typo and got side tracked.
Either way I'm done bickering with you.

Ok? Point is that not seeing a weight gain after feeding a baby bp doesn't mean the feeder is wasted. Not all digested matter is deposited as fat stores, or will result in weight gain. In a young animal organ systems are dynamically growing and changing, which require an incredible amount of amino acids, sugars and fats to proceed.

We we also know that growth of multicellular organisms very rarely takes a linear approach. Using an animals weight, or defecation rate to dictate a feeding schedule is just plain wrong.

Im not bickering at all. I was under the impression that the forum was a place where we could have debates and share information.

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Originally Posted by JoshSloane

We we also know that growth of multicellular organisms very rarely takes a linear approach. Using an animals weight, or defecation rate to dictate a feeding schedule is just plain wrong.

Im not bickering at all. I was under the impression that the forum was a place where we could have debates and share information.

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Okay then sir.... School me on your schedule for your animals and your reasoning behind why you do what you do.

thanks for all the advice gang...this really helps!

For BPs I feed one appropriately sized food item once a week, regardless of age or if they have defecated. Simple stuff here. No need to weigh feeders or wait for defecation.

I normally play it by ear with adults. If an adult has a larger food item one week, and looks to be going into shed I will wait another week before feeding again. If it gets to the 10 day mark and the adult bp seems to be looking for food I will feed again at that time.

Once I get a bp on a rhythm with eating I like to keep them going. They seem to be able to anticipate feeding day even before the rats come out.

Why one? Why not multiple?

As PitOnTheProwl mentioned younger animals will require a different level of food intake. I will add newer keepers have the propensity to overdo it which happens far too frequently.

The O/P mentioned it had been 5 days, then there was another feed today and is asking to feed tomorrow. If you don't see what is going to happen here without pulling back the reins you are not looking at things clearly. This snake's system needs some time to process and eliminate now.

Unless you have a rather young royal, you will not see these animals starve even by waiting what some would consider a long time. I have an adult royal that has eaten once in the last year and you would never know it but that's a different subject.

A lot of feeding "advice" you see is often geared toward maturity and breeding. If you are growing a pet and not in any rush for size, which is unhealthy IMO, you are not harming your snake in any way by waiting a little bit.

So while some may push you in the direction of feeding often or prior to defecation, there is certainly no harm in waiting for waste elimination prior to feeding again. NONE.

In this particular case I'd definitely wait. 3 meals in 5 days is too much. The O/P needs to hear that and needs to wait it out. Advice to the contrary is not constructive in this situation.


I offered that advice because it is safe and easy to figure out. Feed, eliminate and feed again. Are there other ways?? Certainly, but I see far too often feed, feed, feed! The end result of that is almost always a shortened life.

Obviously this is not aimed at long time experienced keepers who know their animals and maybe that caused some misunderstanding.

I won't debate or argue here, as all I wanted was to offer the O/P a safe practice for feeding that has very little thinking involved.

While it is very hard to underfeed "most" snakes, it is entirely too easy to overfeed them.

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Originally Posted by Gio

As PitOnTheProwl mentioned younger animals will require a different level of food intake. I will add newer keepers have the propensity to overdo it which happens far too frequently.

The O/P mentioned it had been 5 days, then there was another feed today and is asking to feed tomorrow. If you don't see what is going to happen here without pulling back the reins you are not looking at things clearly. This snake's system needs some time to process and eliminate now.

Unless you have a rather young royal, you will not see these animals starve even by waiting what some would consider a long time. I have an adult royal that has eaten once in the last year and you would never know it but that's a different subject.

A lot of feeding "advice" you see is often geared toward maturity and breeding. If you are growing a pet and not in any rush for size, which is unhealthy IMO, you are not harming your snake in any way by waiting a little bit.

So while some may push you in the direction of feeding often or prior to defecation, there is certainly no harm in waiting for waste elimination prior to feeding again. NONE.

In this particular case I'd definitely wait. 3 meals in 5 days is too much. The O/P needs to hear that and needs to wait it out. Advice to the contrary is not constructive in this situation.


I offered that advice because it is safe and easy to figure out. Feed, eliminate and feed again. Are there other ways?? Certainly, but I see far too often feed, feed, feed! The end result of that is almost always a shortened life.

Obviously this is not aimed at long time experienced keepers who know their animals and maybe that caused some misunderstanding.

I won't debate or argue here, as all I wanted was to offer the O/P a safe practice for feeding that has very little thinking involved.

While it is very hard to underfeed "most" snakes, it is entirely too easy to overfeed them.

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My advice was not necessarily directed toward an extra feeding. As long as the animal is getting an appropriately size meal (I'm a fan of 10-15%), then there should be no reason to feed today and then feed tomorrow. I was simply saying that if you've fed it today and it's next feeding day is 5 days away, there is no need to skip or put it off if the animal hasn't defecated. As I said, I have one that will pass 3 days after feeding like clockwork, and she is getting a 10-15% meal. Meanwhile another one that will only pass after every 3rd meal. (They are MASSIVE.) If I waited for her to defecate, she'd only eat once a month. Both get weighed once a month and are growing fine.

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Originally Posted by SmoothScales

My advice was not necessarily directed toward an extra feeding. As long as the animal is getting an appropriately size meal (I'm a fan of 10-15%), then there should be no reason to feed today and then feed tomorrow. I was simply saying that if you've fed it today and it's next feeding day is 5 days away, there is no need to skip or put it off if the animal hasn't defecated. As I said, I have one that will pass 3 days after feeding like clockwork, and she is getting a 10-15% meal. Meanwhile another one that will only pass after every 3rd meal. (They are MASSIVE.) If I waited for her to defecate, she'd only eat once a month. Both get weighed once a month and are growing fine.

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Right,

There are plenty of variables involved in feeding. Josh mentioned a few so did Pit.

In almost all cases feeding frequency and husbandry play the biggest roles in growth. Husbandry is major.

I personally NEVER use a set schedule, and I vary prey type, size and frequency. In the winter months I use seasonal temp drops and now that all of my snakes are mature they will usually go off feed in the winter.

My advice in this particular thread is more how I would approach feeding a boa constrictor but the practice is acceptable to pass along to somebody who is just starting out with royals. I don't know the ages and experience levels of most of the people here, but it is fairly easy to spot somebody who should be given advice toward the conservative side which is why I wanted the O/P to let that snake empty out.

Regurge isn't a prominent issue with most pythons, but stuffing them is not doing them any good.

Being in a constant state of digestion draws energy away from other functions.

Will the O/P's snake eat if presented food? YES! These animals are hard wired to deal with feast and famine. They have been for millions of years.

If we were to discuss a "feeding schedule" I would say, sans a baby, I would feed various prey sizes and change the intervals. Feeding some large meals, some that would be considered larger than recommended, and then wait a long while. Then I would feed rather small sized prey and decrease the interval between meals. Then there would be a longer "clean out" period before starting up again.

Vincent Russo, author of THE COMPLETE BOA CONSTRICTOR has studied and proven boas to grow more when they are not being fed. That does not mean starved but rather getting a break from constant digestion.

You can apply that to other snakes, keeping in mind metabolisms for different species are going to require some variation.

One can assume ALL snakes have evolved with a "feast or famine" diet. They are experts at conserving energy and nutrients for long, long periods.

Captivity generally brings nutritional "overstock", because our snakes are not faced with the challenges of the wild. They are setup well and can become fat and happy. That doesn't always equate to healthy. We feed prey items that are also captive bred and are not as lean as wild prey which contributes to obesity in some cases.

There are always pros and cons to diets. In the wild some animals perish when they can't get food, but in captivity many, a great many, animals (snakes) die way to early because of overfeeding.

Before putting this to rest, I wanted to elaborate a bit further since my initial response was written quickly prior to leaving the house.

In this specific situation, the snake should eliminate its previous 2 or 3 meals before being fed again. If the snake is constantly hungry, increase the prey size. The snake WILL grow if you are giving adequate to slightly larger prey and waiting for it to dedicate.

Once you are comfortable with feeding and knowing WHEN you think its time you may want to try to change things.

This response could be rather confusing to a newer keeper which is what I wanted to avoid.

Again, my first answer was based on not overdoing it which is common, simplicity, and safe/healthy growth.

well gang, my baby ball took a pretty decent size poop this morning...first time I've seen it happen...pretty nasty and all white...lol. good size though...

thoughts on next feeding now that the poop has occurred?