Helix

What ever happened to Helix thermostats?
When I started in the hobby they were the first recommendation.
Now its all Herpstat.
Mine is still running strong as well as all the VEs I have.
Maybe when one of mine quits working I might try a Herp, who knows.
Just my thought for the day.

Besides 3 racks the rest of my collection is on helix, even my incubator, they are no doubt great thermostats. when I bought my helixs the only difference between helix and herpstat at the time was the body of the thermostat and an extra button http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTU5M1gxNj...xVTXGv/$_1.JPG . Both were basic thermostats, both required a night drop module for night drop, really no features besides that. So I liked the body of the helixs better at the time, so thats what i bought. however helix is no different today than when I bought them years ago. like exactly the same http://helixcontrols.com/?page_id=42 actually they cost more now than they did back then lol.

herpstat offers far more for the money now, monitoring features, mechanical protection, built in night drop, different bodies (including the flush mount one that I absolutely love http://www.spyderrobotics.com/index....products_id=30). also herpstat software has improved greatly since the early days, allowing me to control quite a bit, but also is plug and play from the start, best of both worlds. Herpstat listens to what the reptile community wants and as far as I can see has always delivered. I complainted to them about them not having an enter button to input things, instead of waiting for it to time out each time, which would make something like the herpstat 4 very frustrating to use (at least to me). now what does every herpstat have now today? an enter button!

Herpstat stepped up to what we wanted, helix hasn't changed in years. Now that i see a price increase in helix, i see zero reason to even consider them over herpstat. They might be competitive at a 60 dollar price point today, not 145.

Still around http://helixcontrols.com/ maybe not used as much.

From the start I have been using herpstat (been 10 years now even still have my first ones) and have been recommending them since I am familiar with them, VE are fine too I have one however I don't like it as much, helix have always had a great rep but I see less and less people using them, mainly larger breeders.

My only problem with VEs is they only offer 1 model with dimming while all Herpstats except the basic I believe offer dimming and proportional. Never used Helix as I started on Herpstats.

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Originally Posted by Sauzo

My only problem with VEs is they only offer 1 model with dimming while all Herpstats except the basic I believe offer dimming and proportional. Never used Helix as I started on Herpstats.

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What advantage do you find with dimming?

I still see Helix at my local shop and I know they have a great rep, but their price keeps climbing with no additional features... On a side note I was under the impression dimming and proportional were different terms fore the same feature?

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

What advantage do you find with dimming?

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Dimming allows things like ceramic heaters and RHPs to run in a dimmer function by varying the voltage to it as needed. The pulse function just cycles power on/off as needed for temp. So longer pulses when less heat is needed and faster pulses when more is needed. Not sure if there is really an advantage per say but I personally like the ability to run my RHPs in a dimming mode.

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Originally Posted by jclaiborne

I still see Helix at my local shop and I know they have a great rep, but their price keeps climbing with no additional features... On a side note I was under the impression dimming and proportional were different terms fore the same feature?

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Me too at first but I guess its not because VE offers a dimming version of their VE200. From what I've been reading, it seems proportional is still an on/off but it pulses it faster when more heat is needed and slower when less heat is needed. Where as dimming works like a lamp dimmer by lowering or raising voltage as needed. Now I might be wrong but this is what I've gathered from reading up on the VE dimming model and my Herpstats.

Sorry, kind of tired and reread my explanation and it really didn't make sense lol. Anyways, I guess there is 2 forms of proportional, pulse and dimming. Pulse proportional uses the same voltage but just varies the on/off cycle speed for the heater. Dimming proportional works like a dimmer switch as it lowers or raises the voltage as needed. Now for something like a CHE or RHP, it probably doesn't matter but if you are using a light to heat with, it could cause the light to flicker. Now Herpstats have both, you can set it to pulse or dimming proportional where as VE are all pulse proportional except one model. Not sure about Helix since I have never used those.

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

What advantage do you find with dimming?

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I feel it provides more even temperatures once up to stable temp calibrated. . . . But, I give new racks, incubators, and enclosures anywhere from two days to a week before I stick snakes in.

That said, my experience with on/off type thermostats is limited to either aquarium use, or one really awful experience trying to use a cheap (ZooMed? Hydrofarm? I honestly can't remember) thermostat about ten years ago -- prior to getting a Herpstat.

Since my local supplier has Herpstats, I never had the chance to try Helix. I'd have to look, but I think the oldest I have running are around 8-9 years old and have been run more or less constantly, only turned off during power outages and when I've had to move stuff around. Since I've been super happy with them, I've never felt the need to try a different brand. And, as I've had such a good experience, I feel very comfortable recommending them.

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Originally Posted by Sauzo

Dimming allows things like ceramic heaters and RHPs to run in a dimmer function by varying the voltage to it as needed. The pulse function just cycles power on/off as needed for temp. So longer pulses when less heat is needed and faster pulses when more is needed. Not sure if there is really an advantage per say but I personally like the ability to run my RHPs in a dimming mode.

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My understanding as well that the only plus to dimming is when using lighting as a heat source. I just didn't know if there was any other advantage....

I guess I may have to order a Herp to try out because I wont recommend anything I have not personally used. I have this thing about following the masses. (I don't mean that the way it sounds but its the only way I can express it here)
I see so many bashings on the cheaper thermostats like Zilla 1000 and Hydrofarm and usually wonder why.
I don't have a bachelor's or masters of science degree, I am just a blue collar high school graduate that is very mechanically inclined.
I do know they can be off compared to the nice little stickers they use to suggest temperature but I have never had one completely fail (did have one that would not power on).
My Helix has been a work horse and is simple to set up but I really don't like it overall because of the display and body. There is a reason it sits at the top of my 11 tub rack. It is always in the way on the shorter racks.
I bought one of the first VE-200s and have added several more to our various racks and enclosures. Quite honestly the only thing that really bothers me with them is the lack of clock memory. During a power loss or rolling brown out they always return to set temperature which is great but I have this thing about clocks. If there is a clock it needs to be set to the correct time and they don't so its a pain in the butt to go around resetting all the clocks. I don't use a night drop so an option to turn the clock off would be great.?. I do love the fact that they are stackable, the LCD is on the from and they don't need a stupid mounting bracket.

I know many people never realized how important heat regulation is and probably due to the fact that many vendors don't have a clue either. I know items that sit on the shelf don't pay the bills but you would think being part of care more big box stores would see the need for marketing in this area.

I also do not understand why it is so complicated for many to set up a properly regulated heat source....
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h1...psqcouxfgn.jpg
This came about after repeated postings over and over and over about the same thing. Seems the search function might not work for everyone and we need to get someone with more education than I to look into this. :rofl::rofl:

I guess my original thought on this post is more about experience than just because of hearsay.
I am not trying to take anything away from Herpstat but there are so many that were asking the week before for recommendations that didn't even know they needed to regulate their heat that now are recommending something they have no track record with.

I don't have any experience with any of the expensive TSTATs yet, I haven't had a need to buy one. I have been using a hydrofarm on my heat mat without any issue, that being said when I upgrade to a RHP for my snake I will probably make the jump. All my lizards have flood lamps for their heat source and I don't use any regulation for them (since they require such a high basking temp), I just know the wattage I need to attain my temps...

@PitOnTheProwl

Yeah I mean I don't think there is really any big advantage to dimming proportional vs pulse proportional other than if you are using heat lights but for me when the price is so close between say a VE or Herpstat, I just opt for the little higher price with more functions. For me, I have no problem paying good cash for a T-stat as that's the most important item other than the animal lol.

I have never used a VE or Helix but I'm sure they are good too. I mean they have been around a while and if they were bad, I'm sure it would have gotten around the community like wildfire. Definitely give a Herpstat a try, I'm sure you will love them.

And yeah I've seen the bashing on Hydrofarms and stuff and I don't understand either. I mean for the price, the Hydrofarms I got work fine for heat pads and I'm sure they would work for RHPs. It's just they have a much bigger temp swing than the big 3. I believe I read somewhere that the Hydrofarms even have a diode that will shut them down if they get above 105F, kind of like a poormans safety switch I guess. Heck I think I read a while ago that even Ed from Constrictors NW uses Hydrofarms on all his stuff and he hasn't had any problems.

As for the clock feature, you don't have to worry about that on the Herpstats. Well at least my Herpstat 1 and 2 I don't. My 1 just shows the set temp and actual temp and my 2 shows the 2 actual temps. So with power loss, they just power back up and start warming, I don't have to worry about setting a clock. And yes, I too hate when all the digital clocks are flashing away. I gotta go and reset them all haha.

Dimming happens at a much faster frequency. Here in the US we have 60hz electricity which means 60 cycles per second. A cycle consists of a positive half cycle and a negative half cycle. The half wave goes for 8.3ms. The longer you delay before turning on power in the half cycle the less overall power. Thats the basics on how power is regulated. With pulse proportional the power is turned on for full cycles (full half of a cycle in our case) instead of a percentage through the cycle. Then its just a time slice type of regulation. Now most of the time when someone is trying to do a pulse proportional control they cheat and just try to use actual time but that is inconsistent because they can come in halfway through a cycle if they are not tracking the ac sinewave. But its cheap and has less components and it fools people. We actually still time our pulses with the sine waves which produces not only constant power but we can actually do much finer control. So with a herpstat pulse proportional mode is actually very close to the type of fine control and regulation that you get from dimming.

Now which one is better? In most cases dimming is still the best method of control power and only has one real disadvantage and that come with metal rack systems. When heat tape on a metal rack system is controlled with dimming mode control in some cases the frequency of the electrical is just right to where you can hear faint audible hum/ring in the metal. Since pulse proportional mode is on and off for full half wave time slices (in our products anyway) it tends to not have that same frequency problem.

Pulse proportional is no good for lights as heat souce. In fact even dimming mode thermostats in the past were never recommended for lights. Because the nature of a thermostat is to turn off power when the target temp is reached so as to not overshoot too far. You often end up with a disco light show. But recently I wrote in a option called Basking Assist and with that option we have had great positive feedback that it smooths out the regulation and now makes using lights a possibility.

Hope that info helps! We do listen and are constantly tinkering. :)

Dion Brewington
Owner, Spyder Robotics

Thanks for the explanation Dion, I've had a little electronics training and that all made sense. And I too fail to understand those who bash any of the lower end brands. I pretty much have every brand on the market, as far as I'm aware, except VE. They all work well, and this is really a get-what-you-pay-for type of thing. I choose herpstats for ease of use and reliability, though I probably only have 3 or 4 years on my oldest herpstat. And also the safety features, based on what I know they would be the least likely to have a catastrophic failure in the on position, so to speak.

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Originally Posted by Darkbird

And I too fail to understand those who bash any of the lower end brands.

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Rate of failure and accuracy

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Originally Posted by OhhWatALoser

Rate of failure and accuracy

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Thats a good portion of the issues. Any electronic device can fail but in my designs we have tried to get a couple steps ahead of the problems. In looking at other brands I often find components that are rated right at the max for what the thermostat is going to be rated at. The triac component is the biggest gripe. It doesn't make sense to cheap out and save 50 cents on one of the most important components. Also things like the audible beep that a Herpstat makes when there was an error like probe coming unplugged or a mouse checking through it. Lets be honest, no one wants to check temps all day long and make sure the thermostat is still doing its job. You may not notice a problem exists for hours or more but most people will pay attention to that beep. :^) We even went further and have the high and low alarm alerts. So yes you can get basic temperature control out of a cheap thermostat. But you have a lot of compromises to save a little money on a device most intend on using for years.

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Originally Posted by spyderrobotics

Any electronic device can fail but in my designs we have tried to get a couple steps ahead of the problems. In looking at other brands I often find components that are rated right at the max for what the thermostat is going to be rated at.

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I have wondered about this myself. I wonder how many people complaining about failures are also overloading the device?
I try to leave myself a 20 to 25% window. I don't like running anything full throttle for any length of time.
Many people don't understand this.

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

I have wondered about this myself. I wonder how many people complaining about failures are also overloading the device?
I try to leave myself a 20 to 25% window. I don't like running anything full throttle for any length of time.
Many people don't understand this.

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Many. Not just hobbyists either. I have come across people that well knew they were overloading and I had to convince them that it wasn't worth the risk for what they would save in doing it properly. With big money on the line for collections where its a income source its amazing how many want to cheap out for equipment.

I have also gotten units back that the customers had bought second hand and weren't working properly and they had the fuses bridged with aluminum foil. Or the units had been pulled apart and fuses were bypassed with wires internally. So be careful who you buy a used unit from. :^)

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Originally Posted by OhhWatALoser

Rate of failure and accuracy

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I'm well aware of that, but it still doesn't make sense to complain about a cheap stat being a cheap stat. As I said, you really get what you pay for here, and you've got no right to complain if you bought a cheap thermostat. If you didn't know there were better options, you should have looked around more.

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Originally Posted by OhhWatALoser

Rate of failure and accuracy

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Biggest complaint about accuracy is the temperature swing................. Its an ON/OFF stat
Too many people thing if they set a thermostat to 90 degrees and that is all it takes.
There are many factors to fine tune to get an true in the enclosure surface temperature.

My problem with my two Hydrofarms is the temperature swing. The VE regulated tank has steady consistent temps. Has to be better for the snake. The other thing I prefer about the VE is that it just looks better. All three tanks are in a main room, and I try hard to make things look nice. The Hydrofarms just look tacky hanging off the table leg at an angle, and the red lights for numbers are ugly.

Since all else seemed to be more or less equal, I also chose the VE200 over Herpstat on the basis of looks. The next two upgrades could be Herpstat if there was a compelling technical reason.

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Originally Posted by Darkbird

I'm well aware of that, but it still doesn't make sense to complain about a cheap stat being a cheap stat. As I said, you really get what you pay for here, and you've got no right to complain if you bought a cheap thermostat. If you didn't know there were better options, you should have looked around more.

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I'm sorry but I should be able to buy any product and have it work as advertised for a reasonable amount of time, regardless of price. There are even laws that say this, but at the same time most people aren't going to bother doing anything about it over 40 bucks. and getting what you pay for isn't always true, I mean look in this very thread, helix cost 50% more than a herpstat that does exactly what it does plus more and has the same track record of reliability and a better track record of customer service. I'll go with a cheap herpstat over helix anyday.

I set up a friend's BRB enclosure with a Hydrofarm because he didn't want to spend the money on a nicer t-stat. It's been about two months and I went to check on it and the Hydrofarm is not putting out any power to the 100 watt CHE that's plugged into it. It still senses the temp and the light turns on when it's supposed to, but no power going to the plug. I swapped it out for another cheapo t-stat (Inkbird off Amazon) and it worked fine. So two months for a Hydrofarm before failure isn't so great.

I have two Herpstat 2s and one Herpstat 4 and swear by them. Only thing I could see to make them better is to have networked ones with separate thermometers for each channel (one to set the temp of the element, the other to monitor the temp in the enclosure) which would eliminate the need to have an extra cheapo thermometer in the enclosure to monitor. Then to have it all networked through wifi for monitoring would be amazing. I can see what's happening in my house, turn on lights, unlock or lock the doors and control the heat/ac from my iPhone nowadays. It would be really cool to be able to monitor my herps that way.

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Originally Posted by treaux

I set up a friend's BRB enclosure with a Hydrofarm because he didn't want to spend the money on a nicer t-stat. It's been about two months and I went to check on it and the Hydrofarm is not putting out any power to the 100 watt CHE that's plugged into it. It still senses the temp and the light turns on when it's supposed to, but no power going to the plug. I swapped it out for another cheapo t-stat (Inkbird off Amazon) and it worked fine. So two months for a Hydrofarm before failure isn't so great.

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Unfortunately thats not a uncommon experience with Hyrdrofarm. [Begin personal story] On a personal note I got one to take a look at. The pcb was a mess. I touched up solder points before i even plugged it in. I messed with it for a bit to test it out. I wasn't impressed. My father needed a thermostat to run a small 600 watt room heater. I figured it would be a good chance to put some miles on it and see how it held up. Two weeks later it no longer was outputting heat and if I remember right was also resetting itself. In the garbage it went. [end personal story]