Lightning Pied

Hello, I have been dabbling with this question for a few days now in my head;

The Lightning pied, is a axanthic piebald only considered a lightning pied if it is from the markus jayne axanthic line ?

Or would for say vpi axanthic piedbald also be a ligtning pied only with the vpi line of axanthic in it ?

Just want some opinions

I would still view a VPI as a Lightning.
The big thing is the two lines are not compatible as far as I know.

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

I would still view a VPI as a Lightning.
The big thing is the two lines are not compatible as far as I know.

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Indeed as far as I know this is true, that is why the question has been bugging me for days haha :P

For me lightning pied would just mean a form of axanthic + piebald

All of us working on it still call them Lightning pieds regardless of line. Can't wait to produce one.

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Originally Posted by Emilio

All of us working on it still call them Lightning pieds regardless of line. Can't wait to produce one.

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Yeah my plan for either next season or the one after is to start making the hets (or buy the hets if I can find them! :) )

There awesome looking, next season hopefully enchi pied :rolleyes:

VPI can be Thunder pieds!

I understand what you guys are saying, and agree in concept, but Markus makes the point that there is really only one Lightning Pied since his line of Axanthic is not compatible with the others (https://www.facebook.com/markusjayne.ballpythons, March 31, 2015).

I do understand his point, each of the different lines of Axanthic are actually different genes since they are not compatible. This is like the difference between a Cinnamon Pewter and a Black Pewter. Two separate genes produce very similar combinations with Pastel.

With that in mind, I guess we might need to respect Markus and see what he suggests we call the other Axanthic Pied combinations.

Why wouldn't you just name it *line* lightning pied, just like we do without the pied? I mean the bar has kinda already been set.

Someone brought this thread to my attention so I thought I would chime in. The name Lightning Pied is a name I came up with to describe the combo of piebald and axanthic in 2008. We were the first. After determining that neither VPI or Snakekeeper were compatible with my line I made it known that I prefer the name Lightning to be exclusive to my line only. When people produce and or offer for sale Lightning Pieds, there should be no doubt as to what line they come from. The Markus Jayne line.

I saw some video recently, shot at your facility that showed a Lightning.

WOW!

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Originally Posted by Markus Jayne

Someone brought this thread to my attention so I thought I would chime in. The name Lightning Pied is a name I came up with to describe the combo of piebald and axanthic in 2008. We were the first. After determining that neither VPI or Snakekeeper were compatible with my line I made it known that I prefer the name Lightning to be exclusive to my line only. When people produce and or offer for sale Lightning Pieds, there should be no doubt as to what line they come from. The Markus Jayne line.

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Thank you very much for your answer !
I understand that it divines a certain line to and it my opinion we should honour a morphs name given by the breeder who hatched it first. Was also curious how other people felt about it and planned to send an e-mail to ask what you would say.

To me that solves my question!

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Originally Posted by Slowcountry Balls

I understand what you guys are saying, and agree in concept, but Markus makes the point that there is really only one Lightning Pied since his line of Axanthic is not compatible with the others (https://www.facebook.com/markusjayne.ballpythons, March 31, 2015).

I do understand his point, each of the different lines of Axanthic are actually different genes since they are not compatible. This is like the difference between a Cinnamon Pewter and a Black Pewter. Two separate genes produce very similar combinations with Pastel.

With that in mind, I guess we might need to respect Markus and see what he suggests we call the other Axanthic Pied combinations.

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See with that theirs pewter and black pewter would you just throw on different colors because their different lines like blue lighting pieds for vpi lol

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Originally Posted by Markus Jayne

Someone brought this thread to my attention so I thought I would chime in. The name Lightning Pied is a name I came up with to describe the combo of piebald and axanthic in 2008. We were the first. After determining that neither VPI or Snakekeeper were compatible with my line I made it known that I prefer the name Lightning to be exclusive to my line only. When people produce and or offer for sale Lightning Pieds, there should be no doubt as to what line they come from. The Markus Jayne line.

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Wouldn't it then be questionable on the name as there is no Lightning in the combo?
http://www.worldofballpythons.com/mo...ightning-ball/

I'm just asking, IF Lightning Pied (Axanthic X Pied) is a Markus exclusive?

So I guess we need to get with the Barkers about a VPI Pied combo...

Probably should be trademarked if someone wants exclusivity.


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I don't have any Axanthic Pieds (though I would love to own one), so this issue doesn't have a direct impact on me right now. But as I see it, part of the problem here is our hobby's incorrect use of genetic terms. The term "line" should refer to a specific subset of a single gene. Lines are compatible. Lesser/Butter and Mystic/Phantom are the best example of this that I can think of. Jolliff Axanthix, VPI Axanthic, The Snake Keeper Axanthix, Black Axanthic, and Markus Jayne Axanthic are all different genes that have the same affect on the skin pigmentation of a Ball Python. These genes are not actually different lines of the same gene. A combination is two (or more) specific genes. With that in mind, a VPI Axanthic Pied is technically a different combination from a Jollif Axanthic Pied and so forth.

We recognize that Asphalt, Specter, Gravel, and Yellowbelly are all very similar in their appearance, but actually different, unique genes. A Super Stripe is a Yellowbelly Specter and looks almost exactly like an Asphalt Specter. Should we also name an Asphalt Specter a Super Stripe? How would you feel if you bought a "Super Stripe" thinking it was an Asphalt Specter, but ended up being a Yellowbelly Specter? I know my example may not be the best, since Asphalt, Specter, Gravel, and Yellowbelly are all part of a complex and compatible, and that the different Axanthic genes are not, but it was the only example that I could think of.

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Originally Posted by Slowcountry Balls

We recognize that Asphalt, Specter, Gravel, and Yellowbelly are all very similar in their appearance, but actually different, unique genes. A Super Stripe is a Yellowbelly Specter and looks almost exactly like an Asphalt Specter. Should we also name an Asphalt Specter a Super Stripe? How would you feel if you bought a "Super Stripe" thinking it was an Asphalt Specter, but ended up being a Yellowbelly Specter? I know my example may not be the best, since Asphalt, Specter, Gravel, and Yellowbelly are all part of a complex and compatible, and that the different Axanthic genes are not, but it was the only example that I could think of.

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Even given your examples, there is no Lightning in it.......

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

Even given your examples, there is no Lightning in it.......

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You are correct. I was not trying to address that issue, I was trying to a dress the issue of exclusivety and point out that Axanthic Pieds are technically different combinations from each other.

You bring up a very good point, a Super Thunder is a Lightning, therefore a Super Thunder Pied could be accurately be called a Lightning Pied. That is a problem that exists when our hobby gives a unique name to the homozygus form of a gene, or a breeder uses a combination name already in use. This happens by accident some times and on purpose other times. I don't know how it get resolved.

As an example, just look at "Rainbow". The Rainbow Banana is a Banana Pastel Pinstripe Spider, but there is a recessive gene called Rainbow that Herman Van Hellem's named (I saw his Rainbow Enchi at the Ham show in March and posted pictures of it on here), and there was a Rainbow GHI that Matt Leer was disputing with Brock Wagner and Brad Boa about who's combination was the real Rainbow GHI.

Naming combinations brings excitement to the combination, but can also bring confusion. Part of the fun I guess

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Originally Posted by Slowcountry Balls

Naming combinations brings excitement to the combination, but can also bring confusion.

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Lack of research...... Just like a business name choice. :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

Wouldn't it then be questionable on the name as there is no Lightning in the combo?
http://www.worldofballpythons.com/mo...ightning-ball/

I'm just asking, IF Lightning Pied (Axanthic X Pied) is a Markus exclusive?

So I guess we need to get with the Barkers about a VPI Pied combo...

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The thing is that one has been around since 2003 and the Lightning Pied is from 2008.

It's not the first time that a name is used and than someone use a similar name creating total confusion

Tiger which is a Dersert Enchi for many however those who have been doing this a while will remember the Tiger as Mike Joliff reduced pattern line

Banana we all know what they look like however a decade ago the was a Banana in Europe and all it was, was a reduced pattern animal

Candied Clown could get confusing once someone make the Candy Clown

That is why I have never been crazy about naming combos crazy names but more into naming them for what is in it.

An Axanthic Pied is an Axanthic Pied the only difference is the line you are working with.

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Originally Posted by Deborah

That is why I have never been crazy about naming combos crazy names but more into naming them for what is in it.

An Axanthic Pied is an Axanthic Pied the only difference is the line you are working with.

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And I might go a step farther... Bumblebee = Pastel Spider, often just called a Bee. So a Lesser Bee is a Lesser Pastel Spider, right? Alas, no, it's a Lesser Spider. Errrr... What? How did Bee become Spider? Stinger Bee = Enchi Spider, no Pastel. Ah, so a Bee must just be a fancy name for Spider right? No, wrong Bee's have Pastel? And the circle begins again.

FWIW,

I live in Missouri, and my local breeders have produced a few Axanthic Pieds from different people, and that is what they call them Axanthic Pieds. Not Lightning. I think the argument that only the Markus Jayne line should be called Lightning is fairly accurate. An Axanthic pied could be made from any Axanthic line, but a true Lightning only from Markus's line.

Gale