Post Feed Heaving

I shot this video about an hour after feeding him today. Normally he runs into a hide and commences the food coma for a couple days. But he's just been laying on this hide/branch heaving like this for a good 30 min now. Any of you ever notice this before? He weighs 95g, and the mouse was a 12g Arctic Mouse that was completely thawed and warmed. His temps are 87 ambient hot side, 78 ambient cool side, and 90 UTH hot spot. Humidity 68%

http://i785.photobucket.com/albums/y...pszhjj7nbc.mp4



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Nobody has seen this with their animals? He's still doing it this morning, and no chance of taking him to a vet until Monday.

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Sorry, I've never seen or heard of it. I hope everything works out.

What morph is he? Spider? The husbandry seems fine. I ask bc in spider gene animals "the wobble" can present in many ways and have a varying severity. The breathing pattern could possibly be part of that complex. I have seen heavy breathing in ball pythons after a meal (swallowing) but it is not repeatedly ongoing.

Mojave Lemonblast

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Originally Posted by Polyangler

Mojave Lemonblast

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Ok. Cool. Then the spider gene complex most likely isn't the case here. Just keep an eye on him. Was the meal larger than his normal meal?

No, I intentionally stayed clear of spiders for that reason. Kinda sucks because I think they're great looking animals...

This is his 3rd mouse between 10-12g. He had no issues with the other two. I will say he seemed really eager this time though. He's had a great feeding response every time I've fed him, but this time he was twice as violent as normal. He's been pooping every other feeding, but he pooped 3 times and dropped a urate between his last Fri feeding, and yesterday.

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Originally Posted by Polyangler

No, I intentionally stayed clear of spiders for that reason. Kinda sucks because I think they're great looking animals...

This is his 3rd mouse between 10-12g. He had no issues with the other two. I will say he seemed really eager this time though. He's had a great feeding response every time I've fed him, but this time he was twice as violent as normal. He's been pooping every other feeding, but he pooped 3 times and dropped a urate between his last Fri feeding, and yesterday.

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Well , he is still young and expending a lot of energy during the "twice as violent" attack of the prey item could be the reason for the heavy breathing? Just keep an eye out for repeated episodes or additional presentations. Good luck.

anything changed in his enclosure or the room his tank is kept? heavy breathing is usually a sign is stress or exhaustion. is he hissing?

or did anything startle him? another forumer startled her BP while in a mating lock and he had a heart attack. could u see his belly scales? Check out the thread and vid here: http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...-bottom-scales

Nothing has changed in the last two weeks. The enclosure was moved Christmas Eve, but nothing in it changed (temps, lighting, etc..)

Its more than heavy breathing. He'll go into a hide, or try to coil up every once in a while, but will straiten back out due to whatever the discomfort is. He breaths normal for 30-45 sec, then has a large contraction/deep breath like the one seen in the vid. He ate around 3 Pac time yesterday, and is still having this issue at 10:40 this morn. I'll read the other post, and try to look at his scutes when I get home. I don't want to handle him right now, but I might be able to see them if he's still propped up on his driftwood.

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Just a wild shot - but if he was that excited, could he have started to swallow the mouse before it was entirely dead? A friend of my sister's claims to have lost a snake from feeding it a gerbil, which apparently wasn't entirely dead when it started to eat... it dug into the snake's insides as it was being swallowed.

Just to clarify a little better; when I said 3rd mouse between 10-12g I didn't mean that is all he's ever eaten in the time we've owned him. I was feeding 6-8g mice when he was 80-90g prior to the 10-12g. I increased the prey size when he hit the 92g mark. He's consumed 7 mice total under my care.

He's still just a little tyke, but he's been with me long enough to recognize normal behavior/patterns.


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Originally Posted by Caspian

Just a wild shot - but if he was that excited, could he have started to swallow the mouse before it was entirely dead? A friend of my sister's claims to have lost a snake from feeding it a gerbil, which apparently wasn't entirely dead when it started to eat... it dug into the snake's insides as it was being swallowed.

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No chance. It was a F/T mouse.

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Okay, good.

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Originally Posted by Ax01

anything changed in his enclosure or the room his tank is kept? heavy breathing is usually a sign is stress or exhaustion. is he hissing?

or did anything startle him? another forumer startled her BP while in a mating lock and he had a heart attack. could u see his belly scales? Check out the thread and vid here: http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...-bottom-scales

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Just watched the video. That was a crazy reaction! Not the case for my little guy.

I'm really hoping is the equivalent to us over eating at a Thanksgiving meal. Just a bad case of BP indigestion. I can be really over optimistic at times when it comes to my pets though.

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Could it be possible he swallowed a piece of substrate with his mouse?

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Originally Posted by SmoothScales

Could it be possible he swallowed a piece of substrate with his mouse?

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No, he eats on paper towels in a different container. I also watched the whole process from strike to swallow. Mouse went down squeaky clean [emoji6]

Just got an update from my wife. She says he's still heaving, but doesn't seem to be as sever. Not sure if he's getting better, or fatigued.

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Originally Posted by Polyangler

No, he eats on paper towels in a different container. I also watched the whole process from strike to swallow. Mouse went down squeaky clean [emoji6]

Just got an update from my wife. She says he's still heaving, but doesn't seem to be as sever. Not sure if he's getting better, or fatigued.

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So, prior to yesterday the bp was feeding and swallowing normally? This was the first time that he's had the heavy breathing after a meal? The only thing different was the forcefulness of his attack on the prey item? Otherwise normal bp with no history of illness or injury? And you said you only recently switched him to a higher gram meal? But always a f/t mouse?

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Originally Posted by Albert Clark

So, prior to yesterday the bp was feeding and swallowing normally? This was the first time that he's had the heavy breathing after a meal? The only thing different was the forcefulness of his attack on the prey item? Otherwise normal bp with no history of illness or injury? And you said you only recently switched him to a higher gram meal? But always a f/t mouse?

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Yes, that about sums it up. This was his 3rd feeding in the 10-12g range. Otherwise he's been perfectly healthy. Everything about this feeding was exactly the same as the rest aside from a more forceful attack. He didn't struggle swallowing, and even went for a drink right after returning to his enclosure.

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Is there a reason you feed him in a different container? It may or may not have anything to do with the current situation but can/does stress them out and can cause regurge.

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Originally Posted by SmoothScales

Is there a reason you feed him in a different container? It may or may not have anything to do with the current situation but can/does stress them out and can cause regurge.

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It's a practice I adopted 25 years ago with my original collection. For snakes kept in racks/tubs I would just feed in their enclosure since they were always lined with paper. For terrarium kept animals, I have always fed in a papper lined plastic box placed at the entrance of the enclosure. This was to prevent ingesting substrate, and keeping bodily fluids from the prey item contained. Once they have swallowed and begin to crawl, I just guide them back into their cage without much if any handling at all.

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Update: He's still at it, but its not nearly as bad. Almost like a deep sigh now, but he doesn't twist/wretch anymore. I was able to speak with a herp vet on the phone. She said "I'm really concerned about what's happening, but I think he's best left in his enclosure so not to cause more stress. If he's still having a hard time after Mon he should definitely be seen". She feels like his airway was somehow compromised during the feed.

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Update: His condition has not changed. The mouse has digested, but he's still in distress. All the herp vets in my area (1.5 hour drive) are out of office today too... We have an appointment tomorrow @ 2:30.

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Yikes.. I'm glad he's gonna be looked at by a vet soon. Sorry for the poor little guy, I'm hoping it's nothing too serious and that he isn't hurting.

Do post updates as it goes along, this is interesting and I'd like to know the ending outcome just for future reference, in case.

u live in Lacey? are u driving to a vet in Seattle?

i haven't had the need for the services of a vet yet. let me know which one u go to and how they are?

good luck at the vet (and good luck with traffic on I-5 south if u are traveling to the city)

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Originally Posted by pastelballs

Yikes.. I'm glad he's gonna be looked at by a vet soon. Sorry for the poor little guy, I'm hoping it's nothing too serious and that he isn't hurting.

Do post updates as it goes along, this is interesting and I'd like to know the ending outcome just for future reference, in case.

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Thanks, thats why I'm updating this. Figured that's what this forum is for right [emoji6] People helping people care for their pets.

It's heart breaking to see him like this for 3 days... Hopefully he's not really hurting.

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Originally Posted by Ax01

u live in Lacey? are u driving to a vet in Seattle?

i haven't had the need for the services of a vet yet. let me know which one u go to and how they are?

good luck at the vet (and good luck with traffic on I-5 south if u are traveling to the city)

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I looked around online, and talked to an emergency service over the phone this weekend. There are two herp vets in Lacey. One is the Kitty Clinic. Her reviews for reptiles were well intended, but generically informed at best. Mountain View Vet Hospital has one Dr that came recommended, and their facility is nice (this is where we're scheduled) but the Dr is out today. There's another place in Lakewood/Tacoma that is supposedly nice/good, but the Dr is out for the week. Last but not least, the specialty clinic in Seattle can't get him in there for the next few days...

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Update: This is a true enigma. Just now back from the vet and she can't find anything wrong with him aside from the heavy breathing. No infections, his airway is clear, X-rays were normal, and all his organs looked to be the right size and in the right place. Her best guess was he essentially bruised or pulled something in his aggressive feeding response. Going to leave him alone for another week or two and just monitor his condition. She says she will consult with some other docs to see if they have any other ideas.

On the bright side. He is able to lay loosely coiled now. He's not been able to do that comfortabley since this started. He would try, and then lay straight again a min or two later. Hopefully this will clear its self up in a few days.

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glad he checked out ok with the vet. any other updates on your boy?

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Originally Posted by Ax01

glad he checked out ok with the vet. any other updates on your boy?

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After another week of watching him not improve, I took him back to the vet. He was showing early signs of an RI that day too. Just a tiny bit of bubbling and access saliva when his mouth was opened. You'd have never known otherwise though. We started him on antibiotics, and now two injections in he's doing great! Still has 6 more injections to complete the series, but was an immediate change in his condition. The vet is still unsure what the initial problem was, but the added stress of being ill, and going to and from the vet was enough to bring on the RI. Tomorrow is his next feed, so fingers are crossed that all goes well!

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Poor thing probably so uncomfortable anyways, with whatever is all going on. How was his feeding? And how is he coping now?

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We're hoping he is still on improvement avenue today! Hooray for the lemonblast. :)

Thanks all!

He shed Thurs, cleaned his cage and fed yesterday. He pounded his mouse like a UFC Champion! The heavy breathing is all gone, and he appears to be a healthy boy again although he still has a handful of shots to finish the series. I wish we knew what the original problem was, but looks like antibiotics were a good fix.

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Great news! :)