Ball Python SUPER WRINKLY

Hi! So about a week ago my ball python's belly started turning a light pink so i figured he must be going into shed. A few days later his eyes were super grey and now just yesterday his eyes have cleared up. But his skin is SUPER wrinkly. I gave him a nice warm bath today and his skin doesnt look wrinkly anymore. Do you think this is shedding? I don't think it's dehydration there's always water in there and it's always the right humidity. Thanks!

I had one of my snakes do that. It is because they do get a bit dry even with proper humidity. I started spaying extra water in their beds when I see the signs of a shed starting. And I mist them a little too. Makes a huge difference.

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Yes, wrinkles are very common and will almost always happen (some to less or more degree) when snakes are shedding. Do not bathe your snake. Just up the humidity. Bathing may make shedding worse for a snake because it could wash the natural oils a snake needs for shedding plus it is very stressful, even more so when they are shedding. Shedding is a very stressful time for snakes which is why many do not eat.

The wrinkles will disappear once you snake has shed.

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Originally Posted by BCS

Yes, wrinkles are very common and will almost always happen (some to less or more degree) when snakes are shedding. Do not bathe your snake. Just up the humidity. Bathing may make shedding worse for a snake because it could wash the natural oils a snake needs for shedding plus it is very stressful, even more so when they are shedding. Shedding is a very stressful time for snakes which is why many do not eat.

The wrinkles will disappear once you snake has shed.

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Thanks!! I took a video of him and he's acting super strange. He's sitting inside his water dish and putting his head upset down rubbing it against the paper towels in his enclosure...I have a video of it if that would help. and as you can see, his skin is insanely wrinkly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUqpxnfxaak

The rubbing is what my snakes do to get their shed started, so they can peel it off. They have to get it started, first!

Yep that is just him getting the skin on his head looser for shedding. He rubs his head on different things in the tank to start to separate it from his scales. He should shed within the week. Good luck!

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Originally Posted by Caspian

The rubbing is what my snakes do to get their shed started, so they can peel it off. They have to get it started, first!

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Ohhhhh I see! Thanks! Sorry I just got him about 2 weeks ago and it's my first snake so I'm new to this stuff. Sorry if my question was dumb. Also do you have any tips for keeping humidity up?? I have a bunch of moss but should I stick it inside his hide? He likes to stay on the warm end of the cage 24/7 under his hide so should i stick some moist moss to help him shed? Because the overall cage humidity stays at 40% regularly and when I spray the enclosure, the humidity goes up to about 70% but will slowly drop over the hour and it'll go back down to 40%.

There are others that can offer better advice than I can. I've only had snakes for a little under a year, now. However, it would help to know what kind of cage you have, and how it's set up - I know with aquariums that have screen tops, I've seen it suggested to cover the top with foil to hold in humidity. Also, that a wet paper towel, wadded up and tucked in their hide, helps to add an extra bit of humidity during a shed. Moss should work the same way, I would think.

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...-With-Pictures this is a great forum on tank conditions that i would recommend you check out. also if your humidity is too low it would be good to get some sphagnum moss. it holds humidity very well and it is very rare if it ever molds. you do have to clean it out every month or so but it is great for humidity. Im not sure if this is the moss you have but i put mine in a plastic leftover container or something alike and cut a ole in the lid, then i put the moss inside the container. during shed it would be a good idea to wet some paper towels and stick them under a hide so it can ge humidity that way.

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Originally Posted by Caspian

There are others that can offer better advice than I can. I've only had snakes for a little under a year, now. However, it would help to know what kind of cage you have, and how it's set up - I know with aquariums that have screen tops, I've seen it suggested to cover the top with foil to hold in humidity. Also, that a wet paper towel, wadded up and tucked in their hide, helps to add an extra bit of humidity during a shed. Moss should work the same way, I would think.

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I have a 20 gallon terrarium that has a screen top. How do I use foil if I have 2 heat lamps on top of it? I have a damp towel on top of it right now but it only covers about 1/4 of the screen top.

Under-tank heaters are, to my understanding, much better for BP's than heat lamps, and wouldn't interfere with covering the top. I would imagine that those heat lamps are working to suck the moisture right out of the air. If you get one, make sure to have a thermostat to control it.

When my BP's last shed I would spray a few times daily to keep the humidity up, but I also put some damp sphagnum moss in their hides. They both perfect sheds.

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Originally Posted by CodyH3012

Thanks!! I took a video of him and he's acting super strange. He's sitting inside his water dish and putting his head upset down rubbing it against the paper towels in his enclosure...I have a video of it if that would help. and as you can see, his skin is insanely wrinkly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUqpxnfxaak

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I could be wrong, but based on the snake's appearance in the video, it does not appear that your tank is humid enough. Under ideal habitat conditions, the snake's skin should never get that wrinkly, and generally (in my experience) only happens when the normal shedding event *did not take place when it was supposed to*. Basically, there should be a thin, lubricating layer of fluid secreted between the old skin and the new skin. If you ever catch a fresh shed immediately after it comes off, the inside feels a little bit moist or even oily to the touch and the skin itself can be manipulated and stretched without tearing.

I found a time-lapsed video of a ball python shedding from start to finish, and you can see that the skin, although dull, is not wrinkled in appearance: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnJcnGnCZps

If the humidity is too low then the snake misses the "good shed" window, and the lubricating layer of fluid dries up, leaving the skin dry and stuck to the underlying layer of skin. It is this lack of lubrication (in the post-"good shed" period) in which the skin appears abnormally crinkly and wrinkled. This "bad shed" period often produces incomplete sheds and over time (if not corrected) comes with the risk of retained eye caps and tourniquet tails. One bad shed isn't going to hurt the snake, but the humidity problems need to be fixed before the next shed. I converted all of my glass tanks to PVC and Rubbermaid cages about eight years ago, and I have not had an incomplete shed since then. Glass tanks can be altered and manipulated and misted and monitored for proper humidity, but it is a sisyphean task that I gave up on long ago. Plastic has made my life (and my snake's lives) infinitely easier.

Mesh screen tops are perfectly designed to waste the two most important things in ball python husbandry: heat and humidity. Hot air rises, and with that hot air, so goes the humidity. You end up putting tons of heat and moisture into the cage and retaining very little, whereas in a plastic set-up, you put in very little heat and even less moisture, and it all gets retained very efficiently.... often to the point that you have to drill extra holes to reduce the humidity. My plastic cages look like mini-green houses.

Heat lamps dry out the air, so that's contributing to the humidity problem. Ball pythons ideally should have under tank heaters as their primary, or sole, heat source and only resort to heat lamps if they are absolutely unavoidable due to the size/design of the cage. You also appear to be using paper towels as substrate? The paper towels could be swapped out for cypress mulch. Cypress is great at holding onto moisture and it will give the snake an ideal medium to rub against when starting a new shed.

In the video, there is a dial gauge stuck to the side of your tank. Is that how you are measuring humidity? Those things are horribly inaccurate. To me, it looks as though your snake is dehydrated. I would pick up an acu-rite indoor/outdoor thermometer from Wal-Mart for 12$ and stick it in there. CHE dry out the air more than you may realize. Maybe drop in a humid hide to counter this if a UTH isn't an option at the moment. Once you get the humidity/husbandry in hand, I'm sure your snake will start having fewer shed issues. I've got one in blue right now that's sitting at 82% humidity and - even though he's taking his time - doesn't look wrinkled at all.

Thermometer - http://www.walmart.com/ip/Acu-Rite-I...mometer/896347
Humid Hide Instruction - http://pet-snakes.com/make-humid-hide

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Originally Posted by SmoothScales

In the video, there is a dial gauge stuck to the side of your tank. Is that how you are measuring humidity? Those things are horribly inaccurate. To me, it looks as though your snake is dehydrated. I would pick up an acu-rite indoor/outdoor thermometer from Wal-Mart for 12$ and stick it in there. CHE dry out the air more than you may realize. Maybe drop in a humid hide to counter this if a UTH isn't an option at the moment. Once you get the humidity/husbandry in hand, I'm sure your snake will start having fewer shed issues. I've got one in blue right now that's sitting at 82% humidity and - even though he's taking his time - doesn't look wrinkled at all.

Thermometer - http://www.walmart.com/ip/Acu-Rite-I...mometer/896347
Humid Hide Instruction - http://pet-snakes.com/make-humid-hide

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Good advice. I agree that everything you are seeing shows that your humidity is too low. If you have two heat lamps and a screen top, it will be impossible to get the humidity to where BPs need it. You can get it there with one heat lamp and a UTH with the screen covered with foil or a wet towel. Best option in my book would be just switching to a tub setup which is cheap and easy (and there is a guide in the husbandry forum).

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Originally Posted by Family Jewels

I could be wrong, but based on the snake's appearance in the video, it does not appear that your tank is humid enough. Under ideal habitat conditions, the snake's skin should never get that wrinkly, and generally (in my experience) only happens when the normal shedding event *did not take place when it was supposed to*. Basically, there should be a thin, lubricating layer of fluid secreted between the old skin and the new skin. If you ever catch a fresh shed immediately after it comes off, the inside feels a little bit moist or even oily to the touch and the skin itself can be manipulated and stretched without tearing.

I found a time-lapsed video of a ball python shedding from start to finish, and you can see that the skin, although dull, is not wrinkled in appearance: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnJcnGnCZps

If the humidity is too low then the snake misses the "good shed" window, and the lubricating layer of fluid dries up, leaving the skin dry and stuck to the underlying layer of skin. It is this lack of lubrication (in the post-"good shed" period) in which the skin appears abnormally crinkly and wrinkled. This "bad shed" period often produces incomplete sheds and over time (if not corrected) comes with the risk of retained eye caps and tourniquet tails. One bad shed isn't going to hurt the snake, but the humidity problems need to be fixed before the next shed. I converted all of my glass tanks to PVC and Rubbermaid cages about eight years ago, and I have not had an incomplete shed since then. Glass tanks can be altered and manipulated and misted and monitored for proper humidity, but it is a sisyphean task that I gave up on long ago. Plastic has made my life (and my snake's lives) infinitely easier.

Mesh screen tops are perfectly designed to waste the two most important things in ball python husbandry: heat and humidity. Hot air rises, and with that hot air, so goes the humidity. You end up putting tons of heat and moisture into the cage and retaining very little, whereas in a plastic set-up, you put in very little heat and even less moisture, and it all gets retained very efficiently.... often to the point that you have to drill extra holes to reduce the humidity. My plastic cages look like mini-green houses.

Heat lamps dry out the air, so that's contributing to the humidity problem. Ball pythons ideally should have under tank heaters as their primary, or sole, heat source and only resort to heat lamps if they are absolutely unavoidable due to the size/design of the cage. You also appear to be using paper towels as substrate? The paper towels could be swapped out for cypress mulch. Cypress is great at holding onto moisture and it will give the snake an ideal medium to rub against when starting a new shed.

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50-60% is the humidity. bumped it to 70% since i saw shedding signs. and no, i don't measure humidity with that gauge that's just a thermometer that measures the "cool" side of the enclosure. i use a digital one that measures humidity etc. but just last night he started shedding he was rubbing his face nonstop against the glass and sure enough i wake up the next morning and his skin isn't that wrinkly anymore, it looks like it's coming off in 2 pieces. the head part of the shed is off in the enclosure, and he has a huge shed going through the rest of his body right now. thanks for the advice though i appreciate it :) i worried that he was dehydrated but that doesn't seem to be the case there's always fresh water and i've been spraying his enclosure nonstop since he's shedding and the wrinkles have dissapeared. how long does it normally take for the shed to be completed? should i feed him? today's his feeding day.

I have a heat pad but the pet store told me they don't need belly heat so i can stick the heat pad to the side of his enclosure to keep the heat up, so i did that. Do I need to put it under the cage?? I thought I needed to but the lady at the pet store said it wasn't needed because it's unsafe and could cause a fire.

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and also, the heat pad i have is an 8watt heatpad.

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Originally Posted by CodyH3012

I have a heat pad but the pet store told me they don't need belly heat so i can stick the heat pad to the side of his enclosure to keep the heat up, so i did that. Do I need to put it under the cage?? I thought I needed to but the lady at the pet store said it wasn't needed because it's unsafe and could cause a fire.

- - - Updated - - -

and also, the heat pad i have is an 8watt heatpad.

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Whatever pet store you are going to, you need to stop listening to them. They wouldn't know water was wet if they fell in it. UTH go under the tanks. You seriously need to read this detailed write up (With pictures!) on how to set up a glass tank. http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...-With-Pictures!

Take anything that 'pet store lady' told you and trash it. She doesn't know the first thing about what she's talking about. UTH on the side of a glass tank does nothing but heat up the glass, potentially burning your snake. They aren't designed to increase ambient temps. BP don't 'need' belly heat, as long as adequate heat is provided. There are plenty of breeders who maintain ambient temps for their snakes without additional heat sources. I personally don't, so cannot comment on that.

Fresh water being in the enclosure doesn't mean a snake isn't dehydrated. Next time, watch for a pink look to your snake's belly, and bump the humidity when you see it. That's the first sign they are getting ready to shed. The wrinkles going away when you started spraying more is a good indication that he was dehydrated and is not anymore.

Shedding time can vary. My biggest girl took 2 weeks last shed, from the time her belly went pink till the shed came off. If it's not inconvenient, I would go ahead and offer food. They don't always eat while shedding, but they don't always refuse either. If it will be a hassle, it doesn't hurt them to miss a meal or get fed late.

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Originally Posted by CodyH3012

... how long does it normally take for the shed to be completed? should i feed him? today's his feeding day.

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Do you mean how long once the skin has actually started to come off?

In a habitat with proper humidity (assuming the snake is not dehydrated), the entire length of skin from head to tail should come off in about 30 minutes (starting from the moment the skin first starts coming off at the head), and it should come off in one single piece. However, if the shed is incomplete and comes off in multiple pieces, there is really no time limit. It could take a couple hours or it could take a month before every little piece falls off. You should offer food just like normal during this time and focus on fixing the humidity so that the next time he sheds, it comes off in one single piece.

IMHO, nobody should ever have to mist a ball python's habitat unless there is something inadequate about the cage design. A good cage design will maintain adequate humidity levels 24 hours a day, year-round, without regards to whether or not the snake is in shed. You mentioned that the humidity in the cage is usually 40% and you mist it to get it up to 70% but then it drops back down in an hour. I would highly recommend using the tub method instead of a glass tank if you're having that drastic of a problem. 50% should be the bare minimum acceptable humidity, 60-65% is better, and that should be maintained all month long, not just before a shed.

As the previous poster mentioned, I would immediately disregard anything that that pet store employee told you about ball python care. Under Tank Heaters should be used under the tank with a thermostat (and preferably substrate), and this will prevent burning. 24-hr belly-heat is the preferred type of heating for ball pythons.