Baby king same weight since we got her

I have posted about my california king Sadie before about how she had regurged a few times. We got her on the 4th of July, 2015 and she weighed 10g that day... she currently weighs 11g. She has gone from as high as 15g to as low as 10g since I got her. She has not been a good eater. Her temps are at 85 on the hot side and 75 on the cool side, she has aspen as substrate, 2 hides, paper towel tubes, and water. I feel like I am messing her up somehow. When I handle her, she seems lively, not lethargic... but at this point, Ive had her for 6 months as of today and she still weighs about the same as when I got her. I have been offering food every 5 days, sometimes she takes it, sometimes she doesnt.... i am at a loss here. She is so tiny and I want her to thrive. If anyone has any tips or suggestions, I'd be thankful to read them.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...9b5e488128.jpg

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What are you feeding her? Are they mouse pinks? Hairless? I ask because we have a little Hoggy that would refuse them even though they were presented warm and everything was alright. Then I started thawing them with some rat pups that I was using for some of our hatchling BPs. It provided a better/different scent. She slammed those. If you have other prey items with fur you may want to give it a try. Best of luck.

Well, congrats on the beautiful King. First I would start with the heating and maybe raise that warm side to 88.0f and the cool side to 78.0f. Are you using a thermostat to control the heating? What size enclosure is she in? What are you feeding her? Any visible signs of illness? Besides the regurges? Any diarrhea , difficult or noisy respirations?

I agree that you might think about raising the temps to just below 90 on the warm side. Most kings have a really good appetite. It is good that you are keeping an eye on her weight and it's good that you've come for advice. You might think about grabbing a fecal sample less than 24 hrs old and taking it to a vet to get a float done. It is possible that she could have parasites. Keep us updated. :)

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by the way, she's a cutie!

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Originally Posted by rlditmars

What are you feeding her? Are they mouse pinks? Hairless? I ask because we have a little Hoggy that would refuse them even though they were presented warm and everything was alright. Then I started thawing them with some rat pups that I was using for some of our hatchling BPs. It provided a better/different scent. She slammed those. If you have other prey items with fur you may want to give it a try. Best of luck.

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Yes i feed her f/t hairless mouse pinks. I have been defrosting all of my prey items for all my snakes in the same bag, so the rats for my bigger snakes are in there with the pink. :/ i have heard of braining or scenting with canned tuna juices but havent tried that just yet.

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You could try leaving her in a deli cup with the mouse in her cage and leaving her alone for a while. Sometimes the close quarters and dark and quiet will nudge them to eat.

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Originally Posted by Albert Clark

Well, congrats on the beautiful King. First I would start with the heating and maybe raise that warm side to 88.0f and the cool side to 78.0f. Are you using a thermostat to control the heating? What size enclosure is she in? What are you feeding her? Any visible signs of illness? Besides the regurges? Any diarrhea , difficult or noisy respirations?

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I do use a thermostat to regulate her uth. Shes in a 10gal tank for the time being, since shes so tiny. She eats f/t hairless mouse pinkies. And she hasnt had any symptoms of anything noticeable to me. Her feces and urates appear normal, and she doesnt show signs of RI. :/

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Originally Posted by elbee

I agree that you might think about raising the temps to just below 90 on the warm side. Most kings have a really good appetite. It is good that you are keeping an eye on her weight and it's good that you've come for advice. You might think about grabbing a fecal sample less than 24 hrs old and taking it to a vet to get a float done. It is possible that she could have parasites. Keep us updated. :)

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by the way, she's a cutie!

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That is awesome, I didn't even think about parasites. Ill be sure to stick her on paper towels so I can easily grab a fecal sample. Thank you!!

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how long are you leaving the meal in the cage? I've had quite a few baby kings/milks that took a few hours to get around to it.

are you watching? babies of this size are shy and may not chose to come out if they sense your presence.

Have you tried different times of day? Kingsnakes are crepuscular, try feeding at dawn or dusk.

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Originally Posted by DennisM

how long are you leaving the meal in the cage? I've had quite a few baby kings/milks that took a few hours to get around to it.

are you watching? babies of this size are shy and may not chose to come out if they sense your presence.

Have you tried different times of day? Kingsnakes are crepuscular, try feeding at dawn or dusk.

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I leave the meal for about 12 hours before giving up. I never stick around after leaving her food haha she has a bit of an attitude when I am around with her food.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...f82b861292.jpgThats what she does if I walk back into the room while she is alone with her mouse lol. My little king cobra! And I will definitely try to feed her around dusk the next time around. I forget that her cycles are different than mine. [emoji14]

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Originally Posted by ashleymarie

That is awesome, I didn't even think about parasites. Ill be sure to stick her on paper towels so I can easily grab a fecal sample. Thank you!!

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i doubt this is a parasite issue. the snake is not growing because it's not feeding. a non-feeding snake this size with parasites would likely be dead by now.

is there still a regurge problem?

If it helps, my two kings (approx. 22 grams each) stopped feeding a few weeks ago.
Ordered RHP's to raise the heat. I hope that, combined with the lengthening days will bump them out of it.
They are alert and active, but indifferent to food.

It IS frustrating!

Then I would consider getting one. Sometimes with very small snakes, live pinkies work better than f/t. Wait at least two feed cycles after a regurge to feed again, then give one day old pinky. I would try one newborn pinky every five days. See if this gets your little snake back on track. Switch to f/t later when your snake has tripled its current weight.

David

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Originally Posted by nightrainfalls

Then I would consider getting one. Sometimes with very small snakes, live pinkies work better than f/t. Wait at least two feed cycles after a regurge to feed again, then give one day old pinky. I would try one newborn pinky every five days. See if this gets your little snake back on track. Switch to f/t later when your snake has tripled its current weight.

David

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agreed, if f/t is what's been offered so far I would definitely try live. also, day olds would be ideal as pinks can range from about 1 - 3 grams. larger pinks may be too much for a 10 gram snake.

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Originally Posted by DennisM

agreed, if f/t is what's been offered so far I would definitely try live. also, day olds would be ideal as pinks can range from about 1 - 3 grams. larger pinks may be too much for a 10 gram snake.

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This is true!! She will take f/t but she was much more interested in the lives. I am looking over my records right now and I show that her last regurge was on September 26th. I waited for 13 days, fed her, and ever since then it looks like she has consistently eaten her food. I was mistake, i thought she has been missing more meals but my records are showing that she's been better than I gave her credit for. Now that I sat down and drew up a diagram of all the dates of her feedings, weights, and regurges, I can see that I have been very irregular with my feeding schedule. I never had a set schedule til recently and that may have been what is causing all this weird variability with my girl...

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Originally Posted by DennisM

is there still a regurge problem?

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Great, problem solved! A little one like this should be fed every 4-5 days.

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Originally Posted by DennisM

Great, problem solved! A little one like this should be fed every 4-5 days.

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Yup! Lesson learned!!! :)

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Hey all just wanted to update that little Sadie died about an hour ago. I feel responsible for her death because she refused the live day old pinkie and was still acting lethargic. The skin on her neck was loose and I just wanted her to eat. So after watching 6 or 7 videos on youtube, I gently tried to assist feed her the pinkie. She seemed like she was taking it well until the last of the pinkie cleared her mouth. All of a sudden she went limp and didn't respond to stimuli. I massaged the pinkie down gently but her throat was flat and unreactive. At this point I panicked and started sobbing that I murdered my girl and my husband ran in to comfort me. We watched her continue to twitch even after grieving, and I thought that maybe she was alive, but the longer I watched, the more I was sure she was just gone and her body was moving on its own. I feel like a gigantic idiot for trying to assist feed her but I felt like she was so lethargic I was scared she was going to starve.

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Well listen, don't throw yourself under the bus. You tried very hard to correct the things that we all thought was the problem. Sometimes things are out of our scope of correcting. We all have had animals perish on us for different reasons. Look at how much you have learned for the next kingsnake that you decide to take on. You are more prepared now to recognize things and correct them. Grieving is normal but don't wallow in it. Just bounce back with a new kingsnake. Stay in peace and not pieces.

After reading this thread I don't think the death was your fault. Sometimes things happen and you can't be aware of it until it's too late. I'm very sorry for your loss, but don't let it keep your from getting another when you are ready.


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So sorry :(

Thank you all. I appreciate your responses. I am obviously still feeling pretty down. But this is the first time I've had to deal with losing a reptile. I've lost dogs and cats before... I put so much effort into my noodle children. I didn't know how badly this would hurt, and to what degree.

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Originally Posted by ashleymarie

Thank you all. I appreciate your responses. I am obviously still feeling pretty down. But this is the first time I've had to deal with losing a reptile. I've lost dogs and cats before... I put so much effort into my noodle children. I didn't know how badly this would hurt, and to what degree.

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So sorry Ash! Just know in your heart that you did the best you could and your intenetions were all positively motivated. We all have gone through the same grief at one time or another. Just don't be too hard on yourself. Hope this helps.

Just wanted to say... sometimes, no matter what you do, it doesn't end up working. Just a little about my own experience, with my Kingsnake female, Ssa...

When I got her and my male, they were both tiny. They both grew just fine for a while. Then Ssa hit about 34/36g, and she regurgitated. They were kept under the same conditions, fed f/t mice from the same source. They're both just about a year old now, and my male, Tsoss, is 110+ grams. Ssa would eat for six weeks or more, then suddenly keep a pinkie down for three or four days, and puke it back up - undigested, for the most part. Every time, I waited two weeks before feeding her again. It didn't help. I finally took her to a vet, and the diagnosis is that she's got something wrong with her digestive system, but without opening her up they can't tell what. A month ago, still at 31g, she regurgitated yet again - just the head of her pinkie. The body was completely digested off of it, and the heat was entirely intact.

I've read that a lot of Kingsnakes are hatched with internal defects, and that they don't necessarily show up until they are a few months old, when the snake suddenly fails. I would suspect that might be what happened to your baby, just as a guess. For Ssa, she's thin but not skeletal, she still eats... so it's an interminable waiting game. Waiting to see if she starts to grow, stays the same, or dies.

A month ago, when she regurgitated that head, I threw out the textbook on how to deal with regurgitation. Since then, she's fed every six days, whether she pukes or not. Since I started doing that, she's regurgitated once - and took another pinkie two days later, which she completely digested without a problem. She's gained 5g in that month, the first time since the first regurgitation that she's gained, instead of losing weight. Here's hoping... but it's just hope.

I'm very sorry for your loss, and hope that it never happens again. My own experience has made me hesitant about getting more Kings.

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Originally Posted by Caspian

Just wanted to say... sometimes, no matter what you do, it doesn't end up working. Just a little about my own experience, with my Kingsnake female, Ssa...

When I got her and my male, they were both tiny. They both grew just fine for a while. Then Ssa hit about 34/36g, and she regurgitated. They were kept under the same conditions, fed f/t mice from the same source. They're both just about a year old now, and my male, Tsoss, is 110+ grams. Ssa would eat for six weeks or more, then suddenly keep a pinkie down for three or four days, and puke it back up - undigested, for the most part. Every time, I waited two weeks before feeding her again. It didn't help. I finally took her to a vet, and the diagnosis is that she's got something wrong with her digestive system, but without opening her up they can't tell what. A month ago, still at 31g, she regurgitated yet again - just the head of her pinkie. The body was completely digested off of it, and the heat was entirely intact.

I've read that a lot of Kingsnakes are hatched with internal defects, and that they don't necessarily show up until they are a few months old, when the snake suddenly fails. I would suspect that might be what happened to your baby, just as a guess. For Ssa, she's thin but not skeletal, she still eats... so it's an interminable waiting game. Waiting to see if she starts to grow, stays the same, or dies.

A month ago, when she regurgitated that head, I threw out the textbook on how to deal with regurgitation. Since then, she's fed every six days, whether she pukes or not. Since I started doing that, she's regurgitated once - and took another pinkie two days later, which she completely digested without a problem. She's gained 5g in that month, the first time since the first regurgitation that she's gained, instead of losing weight. Here's hoping... but it's just hope.

I'm very sorry for your loss, and hope that it never happens again. My own experience has made me hesitant about getting more Kings.

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Wow that is unreal. It sounds exactly like what was going on with Sadie. I definitely agree that it makes me nervous about ever getting a kingsnake again. It was like a coin toss, just hoping that she wouldn't regurge every meal she actually would take. I thought it was something I was doing wrong husbandry-wise, but I was diligent about making sure everything was perfect. I appreciate you sharing about your girl Ssa.

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