newspaper

Ok so i usually don't do much for the holidays, i used to live in the mountains of Utah well that another forum. I think i will spend this holiday, cleaning my snake enclosures and what not. My question is this, i read peoples forum post about the use of newspaper as a substrate and i was thinking of switching to it, i however thought it was un used newsprint like rolls and what not, well its not its just newspaper. How can the use of used C store, gas station newspaper be at all sanitary and how can quarantining your animals for 90 days than putting them on old newspaper be beneficial seems like you spent 90 days making sure your animal wasn't sick to put him on something that can make it sick. Are the used newspaper put under uv light to kill bacteria or just used as i. I am as some of you know going thru an illness in my collection that i have all but licked, i let 1 snake near my collection that i new was sick and was sent back and i am $3000 wiser. Why is the use of bald newspaper a recommended substrate even with the potential if illness lurking. I did buy 1000 blank newspaper sheets on eBay for $22 and i really like how easy they are to use. By the way reptilescan.com has changed my life its the best $25 program in the world check it out, it was just recommended to me.

IIRC newspaper gets fairly hot during the printing process, which is why it is "clean".

Personally I prefer using the NY Times, as the paper itself is of a heavier weight than the Washington Post or my little local newspaper so it doesn't tear under the weight of retic poop, and the sheets are larger.

Newspaper is pretty clean, actually. No one is advocating you go collect newspapers from bathroom floors, after all. I get mine from a delivery person, so they've never been anywhere. I've used newspapers from my friends, who read them and stacked them up for recycling in a container in their home.

I don't understand how you think a newspaper is unclean, actually. Do you think that wood shavings are somehow sterilized? Cocofiber? It's handled about the same amount, and both are made from trees or coconut husks that have been crawled on or handled by all sorts of things.

What could be on a newspaper to infect a python? Shoot, I remember hearing EMT type training people saying that in an emergency, you could use newspaper to wrap a newborn baby in, if you have no blankets or towels in a situation. If it's good enough for a newborn human, I think my snake is okay with it too.

I work at a local Newspaper. It all depends on the press used. The press that the company I work for uses does NOT get the paper hot, and the ink is a soy-based, water-soluble ink that sits in the machine collecting dust and bacteria, exposed to everything around it before ending up on the paper - it's in trays that are never entirely cleaned. It comes off on everything, and is really very dirty. I would never use printed newspaper for my snakes. I use the un-printed end rolls, which are far more sanitary.

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Originally Posted by wolfy-hound

Newspaper is pretty clean, actually. No one is advocating you go collect newspapers from bathroom floors, after all. I get mine from a delivery person, so they've never been anywhere. I've used newspapers from my friends, who read them and stacked them up for recycling in a container in their home.

I don't understand how you think a newspaper is unclean, actually. Do you think that wood shavings are somehow sterilized? Cocofiber? It's handled about the same amount, and both are made from trees or coconut husks that have been crawled on or handled by all sorts of things.

What could be on a newspaper to infect a python? Shoot, I remember hearing EMT type training people saying that in an emergency, you could use newspaper to wrap a newborn baby in, if you have no blankets or towels in a situation. If it's good enough for a newborn human, I think my snake is okay with it too.

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I would have to say that in my opinion its full of germs, its handled by numerous people, its in contact with 100 of people, its thrown in the back of a persons car or a truck. As far as the bagged stuff you buy in a store, i guess its like buying animals from a reputable breeder you trust them. Do i think the newspaper people are intentionally infecting there newspaper, no do i think it more likely to be un sanitary then a product that is produced and bagged yes

direct from the press i think its clean maybe from 7-11 or hagi mart no way

let me take my clothes off when i enter the house, and scrub my body before i enter my snake room. Oh while i am here let me put new used newspaper in the cages. Sorry guys i am a bit bitter, i spent money on the best things, i bought from reputable breeders, i used hand sanitizer i fogged with f10. I got 2 dead snakes and a huge bill. I walk into a pet store and see amazon tree boa with stuck shed, stuck eye caps in a little cage and it was eating, i still can't get my sick now cured snakes to eat

What does newspaper have to do with the sick snake that you allowed near your collection that made your other snakes sick????

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Ok, I use newspaper because it's here and that makes it free. No I don't have thousands of dollars in snakes, but until I see something showing that a snake caught something from newspaper it's the route I will take. I think with anything there will be some germs on it. Just an example would be some of the products women use, everyone thinks they are sanitary, but news flash they are not. Bacteria is everywhere and it's just part of the balance. If something gets out of balance that's when issues arise. This is just my thought on it, not trying to burn bridges, just what I currently think on the topic.

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Originally Posted by Asherah

What does newspaper have to do with the sick snake that you allowed near your collection that made your other snakes sick????

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It has everything to do with it, and the tone of your question is validating the question. I have to hear that not quarinting an animal from a very very popular breeder was irresponsible of me and it was my fault, put putting snakes on filthy newspaper is ok and don't tell me newspaper is sanitary, maybe we can use it for napkins, it will help the eRth

I'm not sure about the gripe against newspaper. Sorry you are going through a tough time with snake illness. One of my new acquisitions came to me with an RI that I'm now battling (going into the vet tomorrow for a possible second round of antibiotics) and it's never fun. I agree that using a sterile substrate is best, but only within reason. I also don't think I'd use printed or old newspaper as a substrate, just because newspaper gets damp easily and can be a source of mold. I like the rolls of indented kraft paper for my substrate. They are a little thicker and absorbent.

As for keeping snakes healthy, I think the most important things are keeping them quarantined when new and keeping their husbandry correct.

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Originally Posted by bulldog herp

It has everything to do with it, and the tone of your question is validating the question. I have to hear that not quarinting an animal from a very very popular breeder was irresponsible of me and it was my fault, put putting snakes on filthy newspaper is ok and don't tell me newspaper is sanitary, maybe we can use it for napkins, it will help the eRth

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I keep following this tread, and see that you have had a bad situation arise, but how does that translate into anything that has to do with newspaper? I am trying to follow your logic and the only thing I see is you feel like you were bashed for not isolating a new snake and now you see to want to translate that in to others for something totally unrealated. Do you think your snakes got sick due to newspaper?

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Originally Posted by Bcycling

Ok, I use newspaper because it's here and that makes it free. No I don't have thousands of dollars in snakes, but until I see something showing that a snake caught something from newspaper it's the route I will take. I think with anything there will be some germs on it. Just an example would be some of the products women use, everyone thinks they are sanitary, but news flash they are not. Bacteria is everywhere and it's just part of the balance. If something gets out of balance that's when issues arise. This is just my thought on it, not trying to burn bridges, just what I currently think on the topic.

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I I know people use newspaper, it's cheap available I get it. But people feel all warm and fuzzy about quarantining ther animals and how much they do to keep there snakes well. Newspaper is not glamours there is no warm a fuzzy feeling about your newspaper practicing.

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Originally Posted by bulldog herp

I I know people use newspaper, it's cheap available I get it. But people feel all warm and fuzzy about quarantining ther animals and how much they do to keep there snakes well. Newspaper is not glamours there is no warm a fuzzy feeling about your newspaper practicing.

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I still don't see what point you are making. Honestly, I am not trying to be argumentative I just don't see anyone saying anything is warm and fuzzy about newspaper. Personally it is easy and that's why we use it. It works, never caused an issue for me or anyone I know, so why not use it? What does this have to do with your sick snake?

Ok, little Johnny is surfing the Internet, because he wants a ball python. He has studied about keeping a ball python and knows buying from a breeder is best He buys one from member of this forum who sells its babies. Little Johnny gets the snake as a pet. Puts in the cage and calls his friends come over see my new pet snake all his friends have reptiles some have lizards and what not. Well 3 days later the snake gets sick. Johnny calls the breeder says the snake is sick. Johnny says my friends came over them it got sick the breeder says oh your friends came over did they strip when they came in your room, little Johnny says no they didn't. Oh well it's Johnny fault you should have had your friend strip. I posted a thread a few weeks ago talking about a post I read about gtp and how it should be the goal of keepers to have animals strong enough to be around bacteria a live with it. By exposing animals to every day things they build a resistance to them. Little Johnny was a hypothetical kid

Just to clarify something I stated before - when I say that printed newspaper can be dirty, I don't just mean germs. I also mean that the ink tends to come off the paper very easily, particularly when it gets damp at all, and gets on anything that comes in contact with it.

Based on your analogy, people should assume that newspaper is as dangerous as new snakes? :rolleye2:

Rest assured it’s not the case, while people have lost entire or partial collections due to improperly quarantined new snakes, no one has ever lost a snake because of newspaper. Newspaper has been used for decades by many without any issues other than leaving temporary ink mark on white snakes (goes away if you wipe the snake off, or with the next shed and the ink is not toxic)

Snakes will not get RI, IBD, OPMV, or mites from newspaper; those are some of the reasons why you quarantine a new snake away from your collection.

Now I understand some people are germophobes and it’s ok for you to be but trust me your snakes are not at risk with newspaper, they do not need to live in a bubble either, they just need to be quarantined and observed away from your collection that is IF you value your collection.

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Originally Posted by Deborah

Based on your analogy, people should assume that newspaper is as dangerous as new snakes? :rolleye2:

Rest assured it’s not the case, while people have lost entire or partial collections due to improperly quarantined new snakes, no one has ever lost a snake because of newspaper. Newspaper has been used for decades by many without any issues other than leaving temporary ink mark on white snakes (goes away if you wipe the snake off, or with the next shed and the ink is not toxic)

Snakes will not get RI, IBD, OPMV, or mites from newspaper; those are some of the reasons why you quarantine a new snake away from your collection.

Now I understand some people are germophobes and it’s ok for you to be but trust me your snakes are not at risk with newspaper, they do not need to live in a bubble either, they just need to be quarantined and observed away from your collection that is IF you value your collection.

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There is not one person that can prove that newspaper has never made a snake sick, why because people are always so fast to say oh you didn't clean your cage, you didn't clean water bowls, your not hot enough etc. Deborah i am not saying that newspaper is the cause of snake illness 100 percent of the time. But if i told you that i have a sick snake that i just cleaned his cage and swabbed his mouth then, went to the store and grabbed a newspaper, would you use it as a snake liner. Now before everyone says thats a crazy analogy, i now its unlikely, but can a customer or store owner that sick touch the newspaper. If you saw someone blow there nose and touch the newspaper would you use that one, probably not, but if you didn't see the person do it you would have. Yes i believe quarantining animals is important because of other peoples practices, but i feel that if you go to that extent, i personal could never justify the use of used newspaper as a substrate, regardless of the unproven facts that a snake has never gotten sick from it. I bred boas and burmese pythons in 1991 because i was fascinated by it. The snakes where kept in a huge cage in a biology class room with 1000 of kids around them, and the thrived. Once the animals became 10s of thousands of $$$, quarantining animals became necessary to protect your collection. Was it necessary yes i would ensure my 10,000 investment was protected, however do i believe that this caused captive animals to be more susceptible to common disease, Yes and i am sorry i cant be persuaded other wise. I love the hobby and look forward to every day spending time with my snakes, and do what i can to make them happy and healthy.

sorry my point was that, why is quarantine and sanitation, and husbandry so important almost to the point of being a fanatic, but when it comes to something thats the cheapest option that, no one can dispute is not sanitary, its never brought up, never mentioned. Thats it, this was never a post about bashing anyone it was merely a discussion about some thing i feel is contradictory to animal health safety. I will quarantine my new animals always, but i will never use used newspaper as a substrate.

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Originally Posted by Bcycling

I still don't see what point you are making. Honestly, I am not trying to be argumentative I just don't see anyone saying anything is warm and fuzzy about newspaper. Personally it is easy and that's why we use it. It works, never caused an issue for me or anyone I know, so why not use it? What does this have to do with your sick snake?

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sorry my point was that, why is quarantine and sanitation, and husbandry so important almost to the point of being a fanatic, but when it comes to something thats the cheapest option that, no one can dispute is not sanitary, its never brought up, never mentioned. Thats it, this was never a post about bashing anyone it was merely a discussion about some thing i feel is contradictory to animal health safety. I will quarantine my new animals always, but i will never use used newspaper as a substrate.

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Originally Posted by Deborah

Based on your analogy, people should assume that newspaper is as dangerous as new snakes? :rolleye2:

Rest assured it’s not the case, while people have lost entire or partial collections due to improperly quarantined new snakes, no one has ever lost a snake because of newspaper. Newspaper has been used for decades by many without any issues other than leaving temporary ink mark on white snakes (goes away if you wipe the snake off, or with the next shed and the ink is not toxic)

Snakes will not get RI, IBD, OPMV, or mites from newspaper; those are some of the reasons why you quarantine a new snake away from your collection.

Now I understand some people are germophobes and it’s ok for you to be but trust me your snakes are not at risk with newspaper, they do not need to live in a bubble either, they just need to be quarantined and observed away from your collection that is IF you value your collection.

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I never compared a new snake to newspaper, the analogy never mentioned anyone using newspaper, the analogy was suppose to demonstrate how i feel about people procedures before they enter there snake room, and how i feel that it may be a disservice to people that buy animals for pets and to display

I personally don't use newspaper but this argument against it kind of seems pointless. You can say the same thing about any substrate used. It all comes into human contact and can be contaminated the exact same way. The person bagging your substrate could have the flu, may not have washed their hands, a pest may have come in contact with it, may have gotten wet, mold spores could be attached. There are infinite ways anything can be contaminated and there is no prevention with any substrate. People choose what is best for them and their situation and I and many others don't see what the issue is. Quarantine, husbandry, and sanitation are things you can control and should be in order to protect your animals mostly from each other or outside sources. There are very few communicable diseases between human and reptiles. What you rely need to worry about is transferring from reptile to reptile hence the strict rules of quarantine for new animals.

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Originally Posted by ItsAllNew2Me!

I personally don't use newspaper but this argument against it kind of seems pointless. You can say the same thing about any substrate used. It all comes into human contact and can be contaminated the exact same way. The person bagging your substrate could have the flu, may not have washed their hands, a pest may have come in contact with it, may have gotten wet, mold spores could be attached. There are infinite ways anything can be contaminated and there is no prevention with any substrate. People choose what is best for them and their situation and I and many others don't see what the issue is. Quarantine, husbandry, and sanitation are things you can control and should be in order to protect your animals mostly from each other or outside sources. There are very few communicable diseases between human and reptiles. What you rely need to worry about is transferring from reptile to reptile hence the strict rules of quarantine for new animals.

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When i used the bag stuffed i used this stuff check the link, i am sure that tis company is not contributing to the contamination of there product. The other companies i really don't know. But i researched and this company was the best. They do a lot in the way of ensuring there production practisis are sanitary. I however have switched to blank newspaper sheets, are they 100 percent sanitary no, but i feel better about the odds if this product vs old newspaper. http://old.harlan.com/about_harlan_laboratories

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Originally Posted by bulldog herp

When i used the bag stuffed i used this stuff check the link, i am sure that tis company is not contributing to the contamination of there product. The other companies i really don't know. But i researched and this company was the best. They do a lot in the way of ensuring there production practisis are sanitary. I however have switched to blank newspaper sheets, are they 100 percent sanitary no, but i feel better about the odds if this product vs old newspaper. http://old.harlan.com/about_harlan_laboratories

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Good you did research on the company you did use and great they practice sanitary guidelines but even so you have contamination regardless due to handling in general. do they test their packaging, how about the shipping containers or their handlers, the trucks the substrate sits on, etc. There are so many ways to contaminate anything that you can't say one thing is better than another. I am just saying you never know. I wouldn't recommend grabbing old newspaper off the ground or from some obviously dirty or questionable location but with reasonable thought I don't see the problem. Who's to say that the guy at the pulp factory cut his hand and blood fell in the vat that was then turned into the sheets you use now. You never know therefore you can't deduce that it is less questionable than the Sunday paper people use. Just my thoughts.

While I'm sorry you ended up with dead and sick snakes, it has nothing at all to do with whether or not newspaper is a sanitary product.

Your shavings could be handled by someone with the flu too. So could your rodents that you feed to your snakes. You know what? It doesn't matter because human flu virus doesn't make snakes sick, so that remark is as pointless as you pointing out that you had your snakes get sick and die after ranting that people use "dirty old newspaper".

The newspaper is not "dirty" any more than shavings is dirty, or the room is dirty, or the frozen rodents are dirty or the air that comes in from outside is dirty. No one keeps their snakes in a completely sterile Clean Room environment. No one is housing their snakes and tending to them in a hazmat suit with biohazard preventative measures in place.

You keep ranting about "dirty" newspaper covered in germs. You also keep mentioning "used" newspapers as if someone is wiping their bum with it before sticking it in the snake pen.

And as far as "You can't prove that newspaper never made a snake sick", of COURSE you can't prove that because you cannot prove a negative, and that makes that comment a non-logical statement. I could say that all of your snakes died from the lipstick that the rodent supplier's wife used... and then challenge you to "prove it never could happen", and you can't. What you CAN do is point out that no one has ever shown that a snake was made ill from using newspaper for a substrate.

You can continue to post about your snakes dying and being sick and not eating, but unless you want to show how you used newspaper and that made your snakes die, I don't see that it's relevant at all.