I need your help! First time breeding Ball Pythons

Hi! First of all, english is not my first language (Brazilian living in Buenos Aires, Argentine)
This is my first post.
4 years ago I bought a male spider and a female pastel.

Two days ago after 62 days of incubation I got my first clutch. (10 perfect hatchlings)
I know the odds of that pairing but this is what I got:
-2 x normal
-4 x bumblebees
-3 x pastels
And one misterious baby (Number 6). I have no idea what it is.
Can you guys help me?
Here are the parents and the hatchlings.
Spider male:
http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...pidermacho.jpg

Pastel Female:
http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...tel_hembra.jpg

Some of my hatchlings:

1-

http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...222_090044.jpg

2-
http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...222_090120.jpg
3-
http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...222_090148.jpg

4-
http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...222_090219.jpg

5-http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...222_090331.jpg

6-http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...222_090258.jpg

That is a Super Pastel (Pastel x Pastel)

The only thingi can think of is that your pastel female is a Super Pastel
thats why you didnt produce any normals

How can you get a super pastel from that pairing?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fLako0aGuiiLaR

That is a Super Pastel (Pastel x Pastel)

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Thank you so much for your quick response.
But.. how is that possible? I have that female pastel since she was just a hatchling and she paired with my male spider!
:O

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LEco

Thank you so much for your quick response.
But.. how is that possible? I have that female pastel since she was just a hatchling and she paired with my male spider!
:O

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Im not an expert but i think that you got that female as a pastel but it actually was a Super Pastel
where did you get that female from?

Here in Buenos Aires it is really hard to know where we get our pythons from.
I only know the country of origin (USA) and thats it.
If she is a Super Pastel I shouldnt get any normals and I got two!

Entonces esto esta muy raro!!
are you sure they are normals?
can you post pictures of both normals?

im sure someone else here can help you more than me
there are veteran breeders in this site we just need to wait for them to get here lol

One of my normals:
http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...222_085939.jpg

One of the pastels:
http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...222_090044.jpg

Yes thats is a normal
Now im lost!
I dont know what happened but that little guy is for sure a Super Pastel

Lets see what the experts say !!:confusd:

Anyone else?

Mum looks suspiciously like a pastel yellow belly. Any photos of her or the babies belly would help :)

Ok. Im taking some pictures tonight :)
thanks

u should also post in the Morph & Genetics or Breeding forum for more feedback from peeps who are more experienced breeders. :gj:

posting here is fine, but it's really just the Picture forum where we post pix and drool other each other's animals. ;)

could it have been retained sperm and a double sired clutch.

It´s very unlikely that she retained sperm. Maybe...
Anyway... you are right about posting on the Morphs forum... sorry for the mixup....
Thanks for your help!

To my understanding, if she's ever been bred by another male, she could have retained sperm - up to five years old, and still viable.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Caspian

To my understanding, if she's ever been bred by another male, she could have retained sperm - up to five years old, and still viable.

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So, that baby looks like a Super Pastel?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LEco

So, that baby looks like a Super Pastel?

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To me? Honestly, it doesn't, but I didn't comment on the possibilities because I don't know how to identify them yet. I just know that my girl - in my avatar - was sold to me as a Super Pastel, and it doesn't look much like her. But I do know that there can be a wide variety of patterns in a single morph, so again - for all I know, it could be. Has the mother ever been exposed, and possibly bred to, a different male snake, while you had her? And was she a baby when you got her, eliminating the chance that someone might have exposed her before then? If she was a baby, and she's never been exposed to the possibility of another male breeding with her, then those two pretty much have to be the parents.


Edit - I just looked back and found where you stated that the female was a hatchling when you got her. That means that, if she was never exposed to a different male during that time who might have locked with her, that the genetics have GOT to come from those two snakes. It eliminates the chance of retained sperm.

I'm not that familiar with identifying morphs in situations like this, but first thing I thought when I saw it was pewter or super pastel?
I'm also wondering what males she's been exposed to, or if there could be hidden genes in them

Looks like that will be the Null allele. A heterozygous pastel with homozygous phenotype. Interesting! Hold back if you can.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Felidae

Looks like that will be the Null allele. A heterozygous pastel with homozygous phenotype. Interesting! Hold back if you can.

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Could you explain what that is/means? I'm not familiar with what exactly all that means, what it is and what it makes and all.

I'm really not someone who you call expert in that forum, and my English is pretty bad, but I'll try what I can. It not means that my theory true for your case, but I see normal spider and normal pastel parents and that drives me there.
In rare occasions, most likely with incomplete dominant morphs a hatchling can be phenotypically (in visual appearance) homozygous (called super form), when genotypically just heterozygous. Your small one looks like super pastel for me. For the homozygous form you need 2 copies of the same gene in the same allele, what is impossible, if just one of the parents carries the pastel gene. The explication for that syndrome that you have only one copy of the gene in an allele, but the other side nothing (something with protein.. I forgot..). That gene express himself to the empty side. When snakes with that syndrome bred, they acts completely like a normal heterozygous form, in your case like a pastel, not like a super pastel.

Let's see it after a shed or two, but I would say for now that it's a ridiculously blushed out pastel that may darken/color up more with a shed or two.