First BP, need some serious help.

First off, my normal vet is closed, I don't even know if they treat snakes, but there's an exotic vet downtown I'm calling in the morning.

Okay, with that out of the way, hello, first time BP owner, love my Tim(my little Enchi BP). Not 100% sure about his age I got him from a friend at work, he came to me super healthy, nice and thick, strong wrapping himself around my wrist and fingers, good snake, felt like a good animal bright and curious. She gave me 3 rats to take home, told me to get a 50gal tank, either paper towels or carpeting(absolutely no substrate), two hides, a UTH, dimmer switch, temp and humidity monitor and a big bowl for his water. Okay! No problem! Went through two monitors but finally got one that worked. Sent her photos of his habitat, she loved it felt good about everything. Asked when I should feed him, she tells me leave him alone for a couple weeks, it won't hurt him to miss a meal, okay no problem. I picked him up 11/27 and offered him one rat a week after that, he wouldn't take it for ANYTHING. That's okay, I'll try again at another time. Saturday the 12th he took a rat, missed his first strike, but got it the second time. The friend told me he didn't like it wiggled and to just set it down in front of him. Huzzah! He eats! I watched him eat, he spent 45 minutes struggling to find the nose but he found it eventually, as I was watching him eat I got a little worried that the rat might've been too big, thought about trying to take it back, thought that was stupid, didn't remember the rat being that big when I pulled it out of the freezer maybe it expanded when I heated it up by pouring hot water over it in a plastic bag. I asked her, she told me the rats she gave me were okay. Alright, fine I'll stop worrying. Read to leave the snake alone and not handle him for 2-3 days after eatting, okay I can do that too. Slid him very gently from his feeding container back into his tank after he ate. As far as I could tell the rat was way down into midsection and all went well. He slithered happily off to his bigger hide on top of the UTH and I went to sleep.

Kept peeking at him through the hole on his big hide over the next couple days, changing his water out everyday, noticed a strange smell, at first thought it was my dogs, bathed them but smell was still there, searched everywhere but finally ended up at his cage. It. Was. Awful. Smelled like death, was immediately terrified he'd died somehow, so I went and grabbed a plastic container and pulled up his big tree hide and found him laying half on top of a puddle vaguely resembling a rat and a big bulge in his throat.

PANIC ENSUED.

Picked him up as gently as I could, set him in his container, called the friend and she came over immediately. I cleaned his cage out, scrubbed everything, the carpeting is hung in the bathroom drying and she has him and is feeling the big lump in his throat. There's brown grey sludge coming up out of his throat and she's taking ear swabs and cleaning it up with a flashlight in her mouth trying to see what's in there, she thinks it's a skull or bone fragments. Next thing I know she has tweezers, his mouth way open and is slowly pulling shards of bone out of his throat. He is clearly unhappy but after five minutes she gets the bulge of I'm guessing rot out of his throat and cleans him up. I had put paper towels as flooring in his cage while the carpeting dries and she dips his chin in his water bowl and sets him down. Tim drank for five minutes and then scurried off to his UTH hide.

She has no idea why he threw up or how stuff got stuck in his throat, says he felt dehydrated, skin loose a little, but it wasn't life threatening and to just keep an eye on him. She says maybe the rat I gave him was too big, she'll give me smaller ones next time but is still really confused.

So, my question to you guys, was what she did pulling the stuff out of his throat okay? And any idea what happened? Was his rat too big? I'm crazy worried.

I was too busy panicing to take a picture of him with his throat bulge but I do have a photo of when I got him, him eatting the rat and then after his whole ordeal.

https://i.imgur.com/8lxjTCm.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/BVPCkLB.jpg


https://i.imgur.com/uQ0z0kV.jpg (This ended up being a huge picture)

WTH... there was bones in his throat. That is super unusual. Definitely a vet visit. The rat does look big for him. The prey you feed him should be the same size of the fattest part of his belly. This could cause regurgitation. But so can feeding outside of a tub. Feed him in his enclosure. It is stressful for them to be moved after feeding and can cause regurgitation.

Unless your friend is a trained vet, I wouldn't let her swab or put tweezers in the snakes mouth. Nature has a way with dealing with these things, I'm a believer that something like that, it's best to let the snake do it's thing. That may be wrong, but fighting a snake to get into its mouth like that may end up doing more harm than good vs just letting him be for a while.

You should take him to a vet and explain all of this. You should probably wait at least a week before feeding again to let him heal from this ordeal. Then give him something smaller, as mentioned above. Best of luck to you though.

How much does he weigh right now, and what size rats were you feeding him?

I'd take him to a reptile vet, and I personally wouldn't continue asking this friend for advice/approval (even just based on her husbandry suggestions and actions). That rat looks WAY too large for him, and large prey can cause regurgitation. But that there were bones stuck in his throat sounds scary!

I would even wait 2 full weeks before offering food again, and see what the reptile vet says.

Be sure that the exotic vet is specifically experienced with snakes too... Some vets might say that they'll look at your ball python, but they don't actually know what they're doing or talking about.

What are your temps at? If they are too low they can't digest properly. What kind of carpet are you using. Carpet is typically frowned upon for floor covering. Stick to paper towels. 50 gallons for such a little snake seems too big. Rat looked a little big.

I'm on board with the rat being too large as well, looks like a small rat with a 2015 ball pyton, and that would definitely be pushing it by quite a bit. Although from your description, it had the rat much further down it's tract before going back into it's main enclosure, and threw it back up, partially processed, with the skull getting stuck while coming back up. It could regurgitate just because of excess mass and being unable to work it through. But most likely causes of regurge as far as I know are being too cool, or being heavily stressed. When cool, they can't digest properly, and instead of the rat going bad inside them, they just give up and throw it up. When stressed, a snake will rapidly regurge it's last meal so that it's not hindered in trying to escape the stressor(predator in nature).

whoa! your BP looks super thin. i can see it's spine in that last pix. here I resized it for ya:

https://i.imgur.com/uQ0z0kVl.jpg

i agree, get smaller food for your BP. i would also recommend feeding him every 4-5 days so he put on some size.

Thank you for the replies! He is going to the vet in 3 hours! I will give an update when I get home from work.

His cage temps vary, his hot spot with the UTH is generally between 88 and 92, I regulate it often, although I'm going to purchase a temp controller off Amazon this afternoon. His cool side never drops below 77(I have that side of the tanks bottom exposed to air) I have a seperate low powered UTH on that side. Ambient temps are usually mid 80s, humidity has never dropped below 56% when I've looked at it.

I'm going to wait awhile to feed him again, or take the vets advice probably both. I was told the max tank size a full grown BP would need is a 50gal so I got that right to give him lots of room to grow and so I wouldn't need to upgrade in the future. The only stressor I can think of, since I've handled him maybe twice since I got him and only to move him to a feeding container is there's a lamp over his cage I turn on during the day, don't know if that would do anything.

It's good he's going to the vet.

Although it sounds odd, having a smaller snake in a large tank can cause them stress. Think about it this way... in the wild, they will live in old rabbit holes and similair places. Very tight, close quarters. They instinctually prefer the same type of space in captivity. While it's not as fun for us to look at and see them, it's what is best for them. Having said that, I'd say the tank you have can still work for now. Maybe get a few more hides in there, some fake plants/vines would help also. Anything that will make it feel like a smaller, tighter space to the snake. That will help him feel more protected and relaxed. It's hard to tell the snake's size but from the picture, it looks to be maybe just a tad larger than mine. I would say it's prey could be around an adult mouse or maybe a rat pup. Hopefully the vet will give you a weight, and some feeding recommendations.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ax01

whoa! your BP looks super thin. i can see it's spine in that last pix. here I resized it for ya:

https://i.imgur.com/uQ0z0kVl.jpg

i agree, get smaller food for your BP. i would also recommend feeding him every 4-5 days so he put on some size.

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I agree with this^^^ I would let his stomach settle then offer a rat pup every 5 days to get some weight on him. As far as any medical issues I would only trust a qualified vet and not the previous owner.

Okay back from the vet, have enough time for an update before work, he weighed 142g which the vet said was a little underweight, the friend said he was 4 months old when I got him so he's almost 5 months now?

The vet was okay with what she did concerning the situation, in an emergency like that with no vets open to take him to and having no idea how long he'd been like that, he said "Not ideal, but she did what she could, of course bring him to me if you have another emergency and we're open." He wasn't dehydrated enough to be concerned about but he did say at least once a week spray him down with room temp water even with his humidity being at a good place, said I didn't need to if I saw him soaking. He looked at the photo of the rat and said it was too large and to feed him rat pups, twice a week if he'll take them. He was surprised his throat wasn't damaged but said he seemed to be okay, he was wriggling all over the place trying to get into the vets sleeves or reaching across the exam table to me, I assume he was cold and going towards heat sources, I let him ride wrapped around my elbow inside my coat sleeve on the way to the vet. Vet sent me home with his personal contact number incase of an emergency and didn't charge me for the visit, he only charged me for the poop test he did for parasites.

Just looks like the rat was too big, thank goodness I was so worried. I'm still worried, but I'm less worried. He asked me to wait one week before feeding him again even if he showed interest, told me the easiest way to see if he was going to eat was to slowly pass your hand in front of his nose, if he followed it with real interest that it was a good indication he might eat.

I feel better and the vet guy was super nice and very helpful, I just want my little Tim to be okay and go back to dangling off his branch.

http://i.imgur.com/lUslnzZ.jpg

Glad he checked out ok!

Glad he's okay! You seem like you are taking good care of him and things will get better with time. I would recommend waiting a full week before feeding him again (meaning two weeks since his regurge) and offer him a smaller meal than a rat pup even. When my guy regurged (at around the same size as yours), I skipped a meal, then fed him a rat pinky, then a fuzzy the next week and then back to rat pups after that. I think two rat pups a week may be a bit much. After a regurge, BPs can likely regurge again if they eat too soon or too big a meal.

I'm not sure about the passing your hand in front of his nose thing. If he had interest in your hand as if it were food, that would be a bad thing. I know my BPs are ready to eat when they spend all night sitting in their hide with their head poking out the entrance lifted just slightly off the ground with their neck slightly coiled in a striking position. They will sit like that until food is presented and usually make quick work of it.

I'd wait 2 weeks since the day he regurgitated. Glad everything turned out well!

I'm also amused at the waving hand in front of his face thing LOL. I wouldn't recommend doing that, unless you want to risk getting bitten and wrapped.

By the time 2 weeks pass, and you see him "exploring" the cage more frequently as if he's looking for something, you can be sure that he's hungry then.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cutebunnyirl

Okay back from the vet, have enough time for an update before work, he weighed 142g which the vet said was a little underweight, the friend said he was 4 months old when I got him so he's almost 5 months now?

The vet was okay with what she did concerning the situation, in an emergency like that with no vets open to take him to and having no idea how long he'd been like that, he said "Not ideal, but she did what she could, of course bring him to me if you have another emergency and we're open." He wasn't dehydrated enough to be concerned about but he did say at least once a week spray him down with room temp water even with his humidity being at a good place, said I didn't need to if I saw him soaking. He looked at the photo of the rat and said it was too large and to feed him rat pups, twice a week if he'll take them. He was surprised his throat wasn't damaged but said he seemed to be okay, he was wriggling all over the place trying to get into the vets sleeves or reaching across the exam table to me, I assume he was cold and going towards heat sources, I let him ride wrapped around my elbow inside my coat sleeve on the way to the vet. Vet sent me home with his personal contact number incase of an emergency and didn't charge me for the visit, he only charged me for the poop test he did for parasites.

Just looks like the rat was too big, thank goodness I was so worried. I'm still worried, but I'm less worried. He asked me to wait one week before feeding him again even if he showed interest, told me the easiest way to see if he was going to eat was to slowly pass your hand in front of his nose, if he followed it with real interest that it was a good indication he might eat.

I feel better and the vet guy was super nice and very helpful, I just want my little Tim to be okay and go back to dangling off his branch.

http://i.imgur.com/lUslnzZ.jpg

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i'm very happy that your BP is ok. but don't let him ride around in your car without a container or snake bag again. so many things can go wrong. u can get into an accident, he may crawl into a vent or your car's dashboard, etc. etc.

another forumer had his BP crawl into the dash after a vet visit. it was a successful rescue thank goodness, but it's a crazy and stressful ordeal a snake owner does not want to deal with.

here he even captured the rescue on video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgRGDzCK5v0


Edit: i also still think your BP is way too skinny. i can see it's spine from head to tail. when he gets back to eating, i would feed him every 5 days until he plumps up. :gj:

Haha yea, always make sure they're secure in the car. I've seen a lot of posts about the snake getting into the dash and such and having to take the car apart to get them out. I just took mine out the other day and had him in a snake bag that wasn't secure enough, he was squeezing out of the bag on the passenger seat when I saw him -___-

A regurgitation is incredibly hard on a snake's digestive system. It needs time to heal before offering food again. I wouldn't offer another meal for three weeks, and then make it a half-sized meal even though the snake is painfully thin. You're looking at a mouse hopper at most.

Wait two weeks to make sure everything is ok. If your snake keeps down the mouse hopper then offer another one and wait a week. If that stays down then offer a small adult mouse the following week.

Over time you can slowly build your snake back up to normal prey size every week, 10-15% of its body weight until it reaches 500 grams, and then a small rat every week or so after that.

Also I would strongly recommend getting a powdered reptile probiotic called NutriBAC. You can buy it at TheBeanFarm.com and it's inexpensive. Dust a little of it on the damp feeder to help re-establish your snake's good gut flora.

Finally, if your vet didn't take a fecal sample to test for parasites then get that done ASAP. It's not expensive and if the snake is stopped up with worms or it has cryptosporidia that will show up on the test. Both of those conditions can cause regurgitation, and while this instance was probably caused by a too-large feeder, you will want to rule those out.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cutebunnyirl

He asked me to wait one week before feeding him again even if he showed interest

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Regurges normally require a two week wait before trying again. Since your friend shoved tweezers down your snake's throat and pulled stuff out, I would maybe wait an extra week just in case she did any damage or excessive irritation to the throat.

Then start very small with the feeders. At 142g rat pups are the normal size, but you'll need to go smaller than that. Maybe all the way back to a mouse hopper or rat fuzzy.

Aw, poor guy! Regurgitating can be a bit traumatizing, definitely leave him alone for 2 weeks like others have said. Make sure his enclosure is dark by putting a blanket or towel over his enclosure. It will help with the stress. You will need to work him up to rat pups. When my bp regurgitated, I gave him a pinky, then a fuzzy, then another fuzzy, and finally a rat pup over the span of a few weeks.


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Great that you could get him to the vet :gj:

I would definitely leave him alone as much as possible, and as others have said, wait a few more weeks before offering food, and then offer a smaller prey item than usual. Feed him in his enclosure and leave it in with him over night if he doesn't take it right away (as long as it's frozen/thawed or pre-killed). I'm not sure what your current setup is, but I would cover up 3 sides of his tank with paper, add a few snug hides so that he feels more secure, and make sure your temps and humidity are good.

Let us know if you have any questions, and please keep us updated on him! :)

Thank you all for the recommendations! I will let him be even though right now he's wandered his cage a few times and coiled into different entrances of his hides with his head poking out like he's hungry. Hasn't quite been a week yet, poor thing I want to feed him so bad. My friend raises her own food, so we're going to try tiny newborns, live, since there's no way it could hurt Tim and work him back up to rat pups which she's going to bring over and kill for me before feeding him. Makes sure thawing isn't an issue.

I'll post updates when he improves!

Again thank you so much for everyones help! And yes someone mentioned a poop test, he did have one done, it was normal.