Payment Methods

So..

This happened twice, and I'm very skeptical now, and wondering how anyone else deals with this.

I had two people (hopefully different people?) who, once they found out I was not available to ship the following day, or even the following week, refused to send payment until closer to the shipping date.

Now, I have no idea why it would matter when you pay vs when you will receive the snake. I got a bad feeling both instances that they didn't want the PayPal payment to complete the process. I replied saying that regardless of my shipping availability, I would not ship the snake until the payment is complete....

In the first instance, the person was trying to get me to ship immediately (Thursday for Friday arrival). Then they asked for a few more pictures, then more pictures, then when I said I can't ship until payment is complete, that person fell off the face of the earth.

In the second instance, the person asked if I can ship a snake that day, however I was already at work, and was unable to. So they said they would send me money once I'm ready to ship.... Is that a good enough red flag for you guys?? I was up front, and said I won't ship the snake until payment is complete, to avoid getting scammed. And that person said they felt uncomfortable at that time, saying I might be trying to scam THEM :colbert:..

Too long - didn't read?
How do you avoid getting scammed on PayPal where the buyer cancels their money sent after you've shipped the snake?

i didn’t even know u can cancel a Paypal payment. Ii thought u would have to put in a claim, provide proof and go through some long process.

anyway a few quick thoughts:

1. if a buyer questions your credibility – forward them to your BOI on Fauna if u have one or here on the forum for them to vet. i’m sure your contribution to the community far outweighs some random buyer’s suspicion.

2. i think u just need to be firm – say it’s your policy to not ship until payment is received in full and clears. not to go all corporate, but adopting some sort of standard operating procedures and sticking to them might help. this includes ship days – a lot of folks only ship Mon, Tues, Wed.

3. be proactive and flag suspicious sales/payments to Paypal if possible.

From my experiences, you have to pay before anything gets shipped. That is the case with pretty much anything you buy online. If you buy something from Amazon, without Prime, it may not get shipped for three or more days, depending on the vendor/merchant.

If I pay for something with PayPal and then never get my purchase, I can open a case with PayPal and ultimately get refunded if it's actually a fraudulent attempt on the sellers behalf. I've had this happen once.

In your case, I would not ship anything until payment is received. If someone doesn't like that, well then, they'll just have to buy snakes at Petco or an expo. The way I see it, when I buy something from someone, especially like this, I fully understand the seller has a life, and things to do, just as I do. I would expect the seller to send me notifications if anything changed beyond what we previously agreed upon... or when my items shipped.

I think you're in the right here. Keep the snake until payment is sent in full, then ship when it's best for you and the snake.

Just my $0.02

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Originally Posted by h00blah

How do you avoid getting scammed on PayPal where the buyer cancels their money sent after you've shipped the snake?

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Short answer: you can't avoid getting scammed if you accept PayPal, even if you get paid well before you ship. If the buyer uses a credit card to back up his payment, he can dispute the charge with his credit card company and get a refund even months later. You end up getting hit with the chargeback fees from both PayPal and the credit card company, as well as losing the price of the merchandise. Scammers have been playing this game for years, and for more than just critters.

Here is just one example, there are many more if you search:
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...d.php?t=554519

Obviously shipping anything before getting paid is a nonstarter, as is shipping on a Thursday for Friday delivery. I had a snake take two days to arrive this past summer due to FedEx's screw-up.

The best way to protect yourself is to accept payment only via USPS MO or personal check, then wait for it to clear. If you set up as a business you can accept credit cards directly so if there is a dispute you are in direct contact with a merchant processor.

You can't really avoid it if it was to happen regardless of the type of payment they use, even if you were processing credit cards through other means they could file with their credit card company. (after that it's just a long battle if it happens)

The chances of that happening though I would say are pretty slim.

When I deal with potential customer I usually tell them before they even pay when my next shipping availability will be, but that even than things such as weather could delay the transaction, by doing so I never had any issue and people always pay right away (unless they use a plan).

All you can do is research get a feel for the buyers (I decided not to deal with some based on that).

If a buyer is not trusting me I am not sure that I really want to deal with them to start with.

Best you can do is ask for a non refundable deposit and payment 24 hours prior to shipping if that makes them feel better. Also don't hesitate to use references if you feel that they need that to feel better about their transaction with you.

With some experience buying snakes online, you pay before the animal gets sent so I think you're right on the money there. As a buyer, I always pay with my CC on paypal so if I do get scammed i can always dispute the charge.

I believe that both parties should feel comfortable with the transaction. Unfortunately, this is part of the business. I'd provide your potential buyers with you BOI (if you have one) and let them know that you've been in the BP community for a while. Even small credibility always helps if there's doubt from the seller.

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My work was just talking about how in the state of Texas, laws just changed where if your credit card is stolen, the bank no longer covers what is charged to your card, YOU have to cover any charges made by a stolen card. I don't know if that's the case in other states as well. If so, it may lower the chance of getting scammed via credit card as buyers now cannot claim a card is stolen and get reimbursed.

As a buyer you always take the risk of the seller taking your money and trying to run, however charge backs with credit cards through PayPal make it hard to lose your money.

As a seller you always take the risk of a buyer trying to do a charge back, however when you have a shipping label as proof and all your paperwork lines up, it makes it hard for someone to actually get away with it.

Besides doing the transaction in person with cash there is always the risks.

With that said, while it is silly that they wouldn't make the payment until closer to the shipping date as it doesn't reduce the risk, waiting for them to send the payment doesn't offer you any more risk. I'll make a shipping label 5 minutes after you send me your payment, but I'll never make one before payment.

Way I see it, you contacted me and had plenty of time to research me, you should be the one to inherit the initial risk, which would be sending the payment.

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Originally Posted by h00blah

So..

This happened twice, and I'm very skeptical now, and wondering how anyone else deals with this.

I had two people (hopefully different people?) who, once they found out I was not available to ship the following day, or even the following week, refused to send payment until closer to the shipping date.

Now, I have no idea why it would matter when you pay vs when you will receive the snake. I got a bad feeling both instances that they didn't want the PayPal payment to complete the process. I replied saying that regardless of my shipping availability, I would not ship the snake until the payment is complete....

In the first instance, the person was trying to get me to ship immediately (Thursday for Friday arrival). Then they asked for a few more pictures, then more pictures, then when I said I can't ship until payment is complete, that person fell off the face of the earth.

In the second instance, the person asked if I can ship a snake that day, however I was already at work, and was unable to. So they said they would send me money once I'm ready to ship.... Is that a good enough red flag for you guys?? I was up front, and said I won't ship the snake until payment is complete, to avoid getting scammed. And that person said they felt uncomfortable at that time, saying I might be trying to scam THEM :colbert:..

Too long - didn't read?
How do you avoid getting scammed on PayPal where the buyer cancels their money sent after you've shipped the snake?

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I may have missed something but it doesn't sound like this is an issue of a buyer wanting the seller to ship before being paid but rather a question how soon an animal should be paid in full before shipping.

Hooblah, I don't think you were being scammed, it sounds to me like browsers who jumped the gun and got cold feet. It happens and they could have been more gracious about it.

Now, from a different point of view, take someone new to buying reptiles online. They don't know who you are and you don't have a big online presence (relative to the well knowns or online stores). They may be just as worried about being scammed as you are.

They say "hey, I'll take this snake, can you ship tomorrow."

You say, no not tomorrow.

They say, "Well what about next week, the temps look great!"

No, I can't ship the following week either but go ahead and pay in full now.

I can see how this scenario could raise flags in a prospective buyer. I have happily paid in full and waited a couple months before for temps to let up. As a seller, I have held paid dragons for weeks for the same reason. I have also shipped immediately (after receiving immediate payment of course) and such requests do not raise flags. However, this type of back and forth could also make me walk away from a seller. This hypothetical convo is not directed to you personally (as I have no idea how that went down), this is just an example of why a buyer may not want to pay immediately after originally intending too. Could even be two good guys who just get mixed up messages.

There is definitely some mutual trust required of any of these types of deals, and that's ok.

In your case, it sounds more like tire kickers who got too far in to just back out with tact, so they pushed harder to get you to cut the deal instead. I see it a lot actually. I just recently offered to sell my older Xbox 360 to a guy on Facebook, he had this whole sob story about how it was for his little brother who wasn't getting anything for christmas, so I offered him a really good deal on it, including everything I had. He seemed perfectly fine with the price, but they wanted to only give me half up front when he got it, and half the following week when he got paid. I don't know if he just really couldn't afford it or if he was trying to rip me off for half price, but as a seller, you never have to play those kinds of games.

Set a firm pricing policy up front, make sure you follow it, require them to follow it, and keep your paper trail in order. If you have a signature showing it was picked up and it is the buyers signature, they're not going to get their money back from paypal or a credit card company. If the signature does not match the buyer, then FedEx made a big booboo, and that's what shipping insurance is for.

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Originally Posted by Galaxygirl

My work was just talking about how in the state of Texas, laws just changed where if your credit card is stolen, the bank no longer covers what is charged to your card, YOU have to cover any charges made by a stolen card. I don't know if that's the case in other states as well. If so, it may lower the chance of getting scammed via credit card as buyers now cannot claim a card is stolen and get reimbursed.

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That doesn't sound right, I think it might have been more along the lines of the new chips in cards, I've heard some card types are no longer waiving liability on stolen card charges if you don't upgrade to the chip card.

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Originally Posted by bks2100

That doesn't sound right, I think it might have been more along the lines of the new chips in cards, I've heard some card types are no longer waiving liability on stolen card charges if you don't upgrade to the chip card.

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This, but the risk of loss is on the merchant not the card holder if the merchant doesn't switch to a system that uses a chip reader.

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Originally Posted by bcr229

This, but the risk of loss is on the merchant not the card holder if the merchant doesn't switch to a system that uses a chip reader.

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The chip only works with physical transactions. Online transactions are still a free for all because there's no way to generate the authentication code that happens with physical transactions.

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I've had a few people try and reverse payment that went through PayPal, one after 17+ months. They usually say the card was stolen or unauthorized use. I've won each dispute by just providing the info PayPal requested. Last I looked the seller is protected by PayPal if the transaction is under $750, you can provide shipping info (fedex tracking) and you ship to the verified address listed in PayPal. I've never had an issue beyond the inconvenience.

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Originally Posted by Dave Green

I've had a few people try and reverse payment that went through PayPal, one after 17+ months. They usually say the card was stolen or unauthorized use. I've won each dispute by just providing the info PayPal requested. Last I looked the seller is protected by PayPal if the transaction is under $750, you can provide shipping info (fedex tracking) and you ship to the verified address listed in PayPal. I've never had an issue beyond the inconvenience.

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I thought PayPal doesn't cover animal transaction in disputes. Or did they do it through their cc?

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Originally Posted by Mr. Misha

I thought PayPal doesn't cover animal transaction in disputes. Or did they do it through their cc?

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All PayPal disputes, I never had them ask if it was a live animal. I had my paperwork in order and they sided with me each time.

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Originally Posted by Mr. Misha

I thought PayPal doesn't cover animal transaction in disputes. Or did they do it through their cc?

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Paypal does not provide their "buyer protection" service with live animals.

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Originally Posted by OhhWatALoser

Paypal does not provide their "buyer protection" service with live animals.

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Got it. Thanks for clearing that up.

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Originally Posted by LittleTreeGuy

If I pay for something with PayPal and then never get my purchase, I can open a case with PayPal and ultimately get refunded if it's actually a fraudulent attempt on the sellers behalf. I've had this happen once.

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I actualy had this happen too but ended up loosing the $250 as paypal refused to give me a refund as it was e-merchandise and nontangable
for this reason alone I will not use paypal

tho you are right not to ship until money is clear If i were to pay with a check they wait 7-10 business days before shipping

Interesting thread. I'm now even more confused about what payment methods are safest for me, but also not a deterrent to buyers. Now that pairings have been underway I'm trying to figure all this out.

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Originally Posted by Marrissa

Interesting thread. I'm now even more confused about what payment methods are safest for me, but also not a deterrent to buyers. Now that pairings have been underway I'm trying to figure all this out.

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Paypal is still one of the most convenient and safest payment method out there I have been using it for well over a decade as a buyer and a seller without issues.

You can also use Square which now allows you to send Email invoices https://squareup.com/?pcrid=67780945...reup+com&pmt=e

You can also take credit card with a credit card processor such as

I have all 3, Paypal (with Paypal Here to swipe credit card in person), Square and EMS http://plusbyems.com/ (which I rarely use)

I also accept checks and money orders.

If you want to do business you need to accept the popular and convenient form of payments.

Square is your best option. There are no time requirements for shipping (we all run into cold, or hot weather conditions at times), no confirmed address required like when you ship to a FedEx hub to hold for pickup. I refuse to use PayPal for all of the above reasons- at least for those i have not dealt with before.

Square also automatically deposits the funds in your bank account the next business day vs. waiting 3+ days to get your money deposited in your bank account AFTER you request it from PayPal.

Maybe I'm jaded; I used to own several rental properties.
I'll never again allow anyone to move in who doesn't have first/last/and deposit in full, up front.
I'll also never again pay a contractor in full for work that is partially done because their "truck broke down."
Each lesson only had to be learned once.

I don't expect anyone to give me those favours either.
I would never ask for a product to be shipped before the seller had received full payment.

Folks, don't allow sketchy buyers to push you around! It won't end well.

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Originally Posted by distaff

Folks, don't allow sketchy buyers to push you around! It won't end well.

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Even buyers who don't seem sketchy at the outset can rip you off using PayPal and there's nothing you can do about it as a seller.

I use PlusByEMS to take cards directly, their rates are lower than Square.